design2fly

My Feedback: (3)

Is it just me, or does it seem to be harder to find a variety of kits these days? Ilove to build, and Ilove to fly, but Iwish Icould build some more! There are so many ARFs coming out these days, Iwish some of them would come as kits! I'm talking about the .40+ nitro stuff. Anyone else have an opinon?

madtrev

I agree. Surely the way the asian arf manufacturers have got hold of laser cutting it would be at least an option to just have someone count out the parts for a kit and package this up. Even just "ribs and formers "type kits would be a major move forward. There needs to be a move to stop us losing the building part of the hobby. Of course another option would be to have a laser cutter "kit" at home for a reasonable price, and to scratch build.
The main problem I have with scratch building seems to be every time I get some wood near my bandsaw, I seem to get all dislexic. If I intend to get a peice 51 mm wide , by the time I'm finished, it usually closer to 15 mm wide.

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

I never get tired of this topic. I'm already looking forward to the time after the next time we discuss it, which, at the rate the topic gets brought up, should be next Tuesday afternoon.

GaryHarris

Sorry guys. I lost it for a moment.

qldviking

the issue regarding getting the kits prepacked out of china is simply the cost difference. I recently price a 150cc Ultimate, with custom colour scheme, and also same plane uncovered. the prices I got were $50 different between covered and uncovered. When I asked if I could get it as a completew kit the price only dropped another $75. Now bare in mind this is for a 100" Ultimate biplane, It makes you wonder at (a) how little labour is in china and (b) how cheap the chinacote must really be.
Another point with the chinese is all thier kits are designed to be built in simple jigs by basicly unskilled workers using hotmelt glue guns for the most part, and covering is done much the same way. I shudder at the thought of having to build a kit from an arf type plane. Without the right jigs to hold them steady during construction and covering it will be diffult to build them straight. I have the remains here of a 60 sized arf that had a one point arrival, most of the fuse from just before the wing saddle and back was intact, and the wing looked relatively unscathed, so I took it home to have a good look at how it was built. Talk about minimal wood anywhere, and what was there was cracked or broken, and it was only the covering holding it all togetherand the wing was worse yet. and then there was all the usual suspects, unglued joints with the glue sitting nicely 1-2 mm away from where it was needed. The chinese have honed down the amount of timber for these planes to an absolute minimum, its no wonder the arf's are so light, but you pay the penalty for it too. I would NOT buy a kit the way these arfs are constructed.

Insanemoondoggie

Did ya find it ? lol

stevenmax50

My Feedback: (1)

Design2Fly, Gary almost lost it cause he has seen this exact thread almost weekly.  Heck, I did it myself about 2 months ago.  We all agree it is sad the way the kits just disappear.  But over there in Huntsville I am sure you shop at R/C Hobbies on Meridian St.  Its where we all go.  And I have the hardest time getting those guys to understand my needs during a build.  I must have been told at least 3 times since December that I am a dinosaur in there by the employees.  Try and get some info about covering in there.  Fugetaboudit.  They have exactly 2 kits.  A Mustang and a Corsair.  And what...200 Arf's?   At least they do stock a good deal of stuff even if they dont know what it is.  Heck, I need to go there right now to get a few cleviseses.  Tough plural word.  But that 1.5 hr drive is not an everyday thing.  
By the way, do you design planes or rockets?  I used to work at ATTC on base.  You design guys drove me nuts. 

madtrev

 You guys want to try to get hold of kits here in Australia. We had a few homegrown manufacturers, I think they're all gone now. Most hobby shops you go into over here think when you ask for a kit, an (b)arf is what you want. Of course, there are a few true hobby shops around too , who do stock for builders as well .
 My main train of thought was simply that if the asian arf manufacturers have to make a kit to put together as an arf, why not cater for more of the hobby and make some of them kits. At least then we could right some of the wrongs they do when they make them (hot melt glue, no glue, ect)

ARUP

Funny (the quote)! Hey folks, don't lament the lack of kits but celebrate the need to make your own kits! Now you can have that airplane that no one else has at the field! BTW- if you see a kit that IS available, then buy it, if you can. Folks like Proctor and BUSA won't be around forever! Get 'em while you can. Better to stockpile kits than to not give a kit producer incentive to produce them. If you don't build a kit in your stockpile- somebody eventually will, right? And if you're not on this earth to build you won't care anyway! LOL That's why my 'handle' is ARUP. I make airplane designs nobody else (or very few) has!!!!!

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

A funny thing happened when I was in U-Control....built all the avaiable kits, so I switched to RC back then. Variety is the spice of life!

drube

I'm sure this has been asked before but since we're on the subject of building your own kit...
What would it take to be able to make your own kits"from plans" not designing.
What would someone need to do their own lazer cut kits?
Is it possible to get plans for laser cutting andprogram the laser cutter from the plans?
Is it reasonable to get into andwhat kind of $$ are we talking to get started.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

OK, here goes one more time. Up top there is a sticky for people looking for kits, they do still make them but nothing like the good old days. Sad but it is a sign of the times. Reason no one at your LHS can help you with kit problems is most of them have never built one, again, sad but true.
Here we go now. I'm just starting a Blue Jay kit of the old Bridi designed Dirty Birdy, before I ever glue a part I make a template on plain old paper of every part in the kit. Never know these days when you wou't be able to get this kit again. If you look at the first photo I'm showing you a set of kit plans for this plane, no parts profile there unless you spot the firmer you have to make in the lower left. Then there is a shot of the template sheet I'm making, do that with every kit you get these days because the kit isn't going to be around for long!!! Now there is a set of plans called builders plans I bought from MAN, Model Airplane News plans service. Notice that every part needed for this plane is shown. Ribs, formers, everything in profiel.The last photo is the two most needed tools to cut your own kit, the scroll saw and belt sander, that's about it. Back in the day we used an exacto knife but the saw is a lot better plus you can hand sand. See nothing really needed you don't already have on hand. I go to Kinko's and get a copy of my plans, I use one to cut up for templates and one to build over. It's very easy but the plans don't come with instructions so you do need to have an idea of how to build or just try it a time or two. There are a bunch of plans services so you have hundreds of planes to choose from if you want to try cutting and building something different. It really is easy and you can buy all your wood in bulk from Lone Star Balsa or Balsa USA, that's very cheap too. Most any good hobby shop has anything else you need. Give it a try once and you will be hooked!!!
Gene

stumpffy

 what if the plane has a fiberglass cowl or a molded canopy?  And how do we preserve these parts in the kits that we buy?

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

Many fiberglass companies sell 'extra' cowls, wheel pants, etc. for older kits (really they have old inventory )

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Depends on the plane, Fiberglass specialities has cowls and canopy's for a lot of the plans and old kits, landing gear and wheel pants too. Sometimes I just make my own cowl out of wood. If the kit has one then you can make your own plug. I have also made cowls from foam and used it as a plug and glassed it myself. A trick is to look at all the different ARFs and find one that is about the same size and type you are building and just buy what you need from them, ARF makers sell parts if you didn't know. This is a Sukhoi 29 I built from plans. It was designed for a 1.20 four stroke, I made some changes and installed a 40cc Brison gasser. The cowl was on the plans or how to make your own, I could have bought a glass cowl but I designed this one so the top opened and I could get to the engine. Your building the plane, do what ever you like to it! The canopy was bought at Fiberglass Specialities and the landing gear I bought from Wild Hare ARFs. Later on I made up some spats for the wheels. Let your creative juices flow, it's your plane and your rules. Let the thinking process flow. Go ahead, draw outside the lines.

stumpffy

Do know where i could find a thread that would show me how to make a plug?  I have an unbuilt SIG KADET MKII that I want to preserve.

drube

Thanks Gene.

I think I'm confused.You make a copy of the plans then cut out templets from the copybut what's the traced version on plain paper for?

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

In this case I'm building a kit, it's not a plans built plane, it's a kit. I want everyone that buys a kit to make up a template sheet in case the kit manufacture goes under and we can no longer get the kits anymore. Lets say you post up you want to build a Bridi Dirty Birdy and ask if someone has the plans and templates. Why yes I do!! I can go to Kinko's and get you a copy of every part in profile, a copy of the plans and the instruction book. The plane is now saved forever and ever!! When I pop the parts I just trace them on paper, label the part, like former F-1, 5/32 balsa or I may make a note like on this kit, All ribs are 3/32 balsa unless noted and front and rear slots are all 1/16. If the kit parts have a number then I print that on the template. I also state how much sheeting and what size on my template sheet, sticks and all so down the road I don't need to do any of that thinking stuff.
If you buy a set of builders plans, I'm showing you a little Fokker D-VII, they give you every part needed for the build in profile, I get a copy of the plans then cut them out and I can either trace them onto my wood or cut them and glue them to the wood then cut the parts on my scroll saw and sand them, either just past the drawn line or to the side of the glued on template. When I buy my plans from MAN then they also toss in a very bad copy of the building artical so you can read it and have some bit of an idea of how the designer went about building the prototype, they do help a bit sometimes. Builders plans give you a template. It's drawn on the plans. Look close at photo three.
I was just trying to show the difference between a set of kit plans, then a set of builders plans so you could see the difference. Hope that clears it up for you. First photo are my kit plans, second photo is how I'm making a set of templates of the kit for future use, third photo is of a set of builders plans that give you the templates and the fourth photo is just of my scroll saw and really cheap sander.
Builders plans, the hardest thing to do when building from plans is it's up to you to figure out how much and of what size and type of wood you need to order. That takes me a day or two sometimes, I write it all down then call Lone Star Balsa and talk to the nice lady on the phone. A few days later the wood is brought to my door.
I hope I cleared it up for you, now I'm winded!!!!

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

A plug of what??? What parts??

stumpffy

The plastic cowling. What is the best method that you guys know of for making a plug?

Avaiojet

Great Thread!

I have tons of kits, and don't have time. I'm looking for a builder.

Not many of them around either.

Charles

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

That's a first for me, I have never seen the Kadet with a plastic cowl so wasn't sure what part you needed. If you posted a photo it would be easier but I will try. There are several ways to do it. If the cowl doesn't have cheeks or blisters, just a simple shape, I used to just seal all the holes with tape then smear a releasing agent {you can find it at boats shops} then I would just poor in dental stone or plaster paris, stuff a stick in the open end and when set the plug would slide out. If it had cheeks or blisters I would use tape and cover those then do the same thing. I have also made plugs by hand carving them from glued up balsa then after sanding them I would use epoxy resin over it and sand until smooth. I have used white foam and carved them too.
If you go into the scratch building forum you will be able to ask or do a search and get some better answers. When I make them out of foam I glass one up then just use gas or acetone to melt out the foam.
The real easy way is to phone SIG and ask if they have them in stock, if not you can check with Fiberglass Specialities and see if they have them. Last time I noticed SIG was still making the Kadets so they would still have them. FGS has them in real fiber glass though. Call and ask.

Jeff Worsham

My Feedback: (28)

Sig still makes the [link=http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/MainMenuFV4.html?E+Sig]Kadet MkII[/link] and it still has the "injection molded ABS cowling." We used to be able to buy the cowls separately so I would guess that's still the case. You might email or call Sig, they are very customer oriented.

drube

Thanks Gene! Gotcha

ARUP

Howdy! Here is a method to make any radial type cowl you want. The first pics shows the blue foam 'bread and butter' glued together. Now you can hand sand everything from here to match the template shape and diameter of the cowl. That's it! Now just cover the foam with water based glue to seal it and glass it, sand some more, add filler, sand some more until you are finished. Dig/ melt out the foam. Cit opening(s). Primer and paint. Not difficult but takes time.

I have used a hot wire set up to save a little time. I also pull a mold from these plugs anymore in order to make another cowl in case of mishaps *wink*. The epoxy is only near the center to keep from creating hard spots that will screw up the hot wire process. A simple 'lathe' is made from wood, dowel and hardware store bearings. You can see the template made of cardboard. A buddy helps with turning the cowl while I cut with hot wire. I used the hot wire as much as possible to save time hand sanding. There are books on the process and your first endeavors will be fun because it usually works! The last 2 pics show cowl after being sanded very smooth and covered with, in this case, DAP brand Lightweight Spackling' which is the same as the hobby store stuff. For this cowl I'm 'sealing' it with Minwax Polycrylic and then glassing with 'Bondo' brand polyester resin and glass. It is for a 1/4 DH-5 and is 11 1/4" diameter. I like epoxy but it is expensive and creates allergy issues. I wear charcoal filter masks doing all of this. I always wear safety glasses.

To make non- radial cowls bread and butter foam from spinner to fuse join(if needed) and make templates of top view, side view, fuse join and spinner backplate (usually round). Cut with bandsaw the top and side views nesting part in off cuts for each subsequent cut. Now, start sanding! Finish as above. Takes time but doable.

If you already have a part then 'slick' it up (paint, etc before cutting holes in it), wax it and pull a mold off it. Any ??? and I'll try to help. Good luck! ARUP