Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
06-21-2012, 07:24 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
ORIGINAL: J.Paul Saure
RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sirzepp
I'm running an FA-125 with an evolution 16x6, I like it very much. After reading your post I realize I did not add the required right thrust. OOPS. It's flying great, with very little trim adjustment needed and very little rudder input required on uplines, but I've definitely noticed my left thumb and finger doing some work...until now I didn't know anything was wrong. HA! So I'm going to add some down and right thrust in when I get home. I already drilled the cowl for the current spinner position, but I'll reposition and go with that. Planning a fiberglass specialties piece eventually anyway...so this cowl can get beat up. I feel like a crappy builder after seeing your build Jean Paul...you are a true craftsman.
Thanks for the comments... ...don't feel that way, I have been building kits for 18 years... (just more than half of my life)
The first ones did come out ''crappy'' , it is a matter of practice and obtaining (and using) nice tips and tricks.
I bought a Nexstar for my kids, first ARF ever, and I can tell you I can still build and cover better than the guy who built it! (but sure, he made it in a few hours, not weeks nor months... )
The tips I always give at the field:
- build to fly, not to crash: Avoid excess glue and don't let the ''aircraft ply doubling craze'' invade the model. Sand the pieces to adjust for the best posible fit. If there's a big gap, use scrap wood before reaching for the CA and accelerator... ...it is amazing how much better a light airplane flys.
- build clean: use paper towels, clean up excess CA and epoxy. Sand the pieces to fit well, use ''CA tips'' on the thin stuff. I do mean clean up after every glue joint is made. Clean those CA tips too! Acetone for CA, alcohol for epoxy. Clogged CA tips make a mess on the airframe. And make it a clean build inside and out, not only on the visible parts.
- use the right tools. My building quality went dramatically up when I began using specialized tools. With an x-acto knife and sandpaper there's only so much you can do. Dremel, hand fine saw, x-acto tool chest, (the one with razor planes, sanding block, copying saw) can make a lot of difference. I do have a slot machine (love it or hate it) and the Power Plane (I use it very little, but it has paid for itself every single time).
- don't rush it. In doubt, double check. Use your eyes AND the rulers, tapes, straightedges. Remeber: measure twice, cut once.
- sandpaper! Use different, progressive grains. i think this is the part that really sets appart the ''smooth hand''. Don't be afraid to sand your model, but it will take many builds before you get the ''feel'' for it on curved surfaces. Specially on turtledecks and leading edges. In fact, DO sand your model before covering, the monokote ''amplifies'' imperfections.
Tip: Use a rubber eraser if yoir sandpaper clogs up with dust.
When I return from USA I'll get back on the fuse. I'll try to post more pictures from the PC, as the camera on the iPad really sucks.
Speaking of USA, I'm ordering a SIG J-3 Cub 1/5 scale for the next build, I'll bring it by hand back home!! I'll have to save some $$$ as I won't settle for anything other that the Saito 60 twin. I hope the kids don't get tired of the Nextsar too soon, or I'll have to build them a Tiger2 first...
Saludos,
Jean Paul
RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sirzepp
I'm running an FA-125 with an evolution 16x6, I like it very much. After reading your post I realize I did not add the required right thrust. OOPS. It's flying great, with very little trim adjustment needed and very little rudder input required on uplines, but I've definitely noticed my left thumb and finger doing some work...until now I didn't know anything was wrong. HA! So I'm going to add some down and right thrust in when I get home. I already drilled the cowl for the current spinner position, but I'll reposition and go with that. Planning a fiberglass specialties piece eventually anyway...so this cowl can get beat up. I feel like a crappy builder after seeing your build Jean Paul...you are a true craftsman.
Thanks for the comments... ...don't feel that way, I have been building kits for 18 years... (just more than half of my life)
The first ones did come out ''crappy'' , it is a matter of practice and obtaining (and using) nice tips and tricks.
I bought a Nexstar for my kids, first ARF ever, and I can tell you I can still build and cover better than the guy who built it! (but sure, he made it in a few hours, not weeks nor months... )
The tips I always give at the field:
- build to fly, not to crash: Avoid excess glue and don't let the ''aircraft ply doubling craze'' invade the model. Sand the pieces to adjust for the best posible fit. If there's a big gap, use scrap wood before reaching for the CA and accelerator... ...it is amazing how much better a light airplane flys.
- build clean: use paper towels, clean up excess CA and epoxy. Sand the pieces to fit well, use ''CA tips'' on the thin stuff. I do mean clean up after every glue joint is made. Clean those CA tips too! Acetone for CA, alcohol for epoxy. Clogged CA tips make a mess on the airframe. And make it a clean build inside and out, not only on the visible parts.
- use the right tools. My building quality went dramatically up when I began using specialized tools. With an x-acto knife and sandpaper there's only so much you can do. Dremel, hand fine saw, x-acto tool chest, (the one with razor planes, sanding block, copying saw) can make a lot of difference. I do have a slot machine (love it or hate it) and the Power Plane (I use it very little, but it has paid for itself every single time).
- don't rush it. In doubt, double check. Use your eyes AND the rulers, tapes, straightedges. Remeber: measure twice, cut once.
- sandpaper! Use different, progressive grains. i think this is the part that really sets appart the ''smooth hand''. Don't be afraid to sand your model, but it will take many builds before you get the ''feel'' for it on curved surfaces. Specially on turtledecks and leading edges. In fact, DO sand your model before covering, the monokote ''amplifies'' imperfections.
Tip: Use a rubber eraser if yoir sandpaper clogs up with dust.
When I return from USA I'll get back on the fuse. I'll try to post more pictures from the PC, as the camera on the iPad really sucks.
Speaking of USA, I'm ordering a SIG J-3 Cub 1/5 scale for the next build, I'll bring it by hand back home!! I'll have to save some $$$ as I won't settle for anything other that the Saito 60 twin. I hope the kids don't get tired of the Nextsar too soon, or I'll have to build them a Tiger2 first...
Saludos,
Jean Paul
06-22-2012, 03:48 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Hello All,
I have never flown an ultimate 10-300, but I am wondering if the plans are still available from Great Planes. If so, I will surely be building one soon! May I be inducted into the honorable 10-300 brotherhood based on my intent to build, and passion for, this classic model that I have loved since my youth?
Sincerely,
Kyle Glenn
I have never flown an ultimate 10-300, but I am wondering if the plans are still available from Great Planes. If so, I will surely be building one soon! May I be inducted into the honorable 10-300 brotherhood based on my intent to build, and passion for, this classic model that I have loved since my youth?
Sincerely,
Kyle Glenn
06-22-2012, 09:29 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Kile, been an Ultimate fan is more than enough to be part of this great Brotherhood, you are oficially # 90, please be welcome, have fun, don't hesitate to post any CG Ultimate question, comments, post pictures or stop by to say hello, and best of all, share pictures of new projects.
Best regards and be welcome again
Best regards and be welcome again
06-23-2012, 10:52 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
pt19 flyer, it is great to count with you, you are oficially # 91 in this great Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10 - 300 Brotherhood, welcome and have fun.
06-23-2012, 06:26 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Hi Guys,
Ive been looking all over the place for an Ultimate kit to build. If anyone happens to have one they are willing to sell or know of anyone/hobbyshop that has one on the shelf, please let me know.
Thanks, Mike
Ive been looking all over the place for an Ultimate kit to build. If anyone happens to have one they are willing to sell or know of anyone/hobbyshop that has one on the shelf, please let me know.
Thanks, Mike
06-27-2012, 12:35 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Finally started gluing balsa.<o
></o>
First wing (bottom) is now fully framed up and a first initial sanding done as well.<o></o>
The 12 cell LiPo packs from my Logo 600 helicopter make great hold down weights. 
<o></o>
mike
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06-27-2012, 07:24 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Mike, thanks for this picture. I couldn't see the ply rib that supports the interplane struts. How did you manage to cut all that balsa ribs?. Did you do a play pattern?
Those are huge lipos, some investment isn't it?, I am glad that you shared that picture, now I am looking forward to see some more. No pressure just enthusiast. Anyway enjoy your build.
Those are huge lipos, some investment isn't it?, I am glad that you shared that picture, now I am looking forward to see some more. No pressure just enthusiast. Anyway enjoy your build.
06-29-2012, 09:34 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Thank you for the drawings and information, they will certainly be useful.
While I was trying to determine the shape of the ribs with the strut mountings that I was missing it dawned on me to go a different route. I cut four new ribs from very hard 6mm balsa and built them into the wings at the strut mounting locations.
These ribs will be locally reinforced on both sides with 1/16” aircraft ply (including ply capstrips). Then just behind the main spars the ribs will be drilled vertically (top-bottom) through to accommodate aluminum countersunk bolts. The bolts will screw into threaded inserts that are permanently glued into the top and bottom of the struts. The struts will have an incidence pin that will slot into a hole in the same ribs to keep them aligned.
I hope to do something similar with the top wing mounting on the cabanes.
Alfred my Logo 600 SE helicopter needs a 12 cell pack for a 5 minute flight, the only practical way to charge these at the field would be with a portable generator (a car battery would quickly be depleted). The other approach is to take lots of charged batteries with you to the field for a day’s flying so I have made up five 12 cell packs (4000mAh) which is quite an investment.
mike
mike
06-29-2012, 10:45 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Mike,
Close up photos of this process and construction would be very helpful and informative. Some of us are more visual learners.
Thanks,
Chris
Close up photos of this process and construction would be very helpful and informative. Some of us are more visual learners.
Thanks,
Chris
ORIGINAL: mikmerl
...
These ribs will be locally reinforced on both sides with 1/16” aircraft ply (including ply capstrips). Then just behind the main spars the ribs will be drilled vertically (top-bottom) through to accommodate aluminum countersunk bolts. The bolts will screw into threaded inserts that are permanently glued into the top and bottom of the struts. The struts will have an incidence pin that will slot into a hole in the same ribs to keep them aligned.
...
These ribs will be locally reinforced on both sides with 1/16” aircraft ply (including ply capstrips). Then just behind the main spars the ribs will be drilled vertically (top-bottom) through to accommodate aluminum countersunk bolts. The bolts will screw into threaded inserts that are permanently glued into the top and bottom of the struts. The struts will have an incidence pin that will slot into a hole in the same ribs to keep them aligned.
...
mike
mike
07-01-2012, 12:08 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
I am not a master craftsman but I will post some photos of my Ultimate restoration.<o></o>
The tedious bit of the wings build is done, both wings are framed up and fully sheeted.<o></o>
I shaped some hardwood reinforcing parts and glued them in at the appropriate locations in the wing center sections. These will be drilled through so that both top and of course bottom wings will be held in place with screws.<o></o>
I did not have enough aileron stock for the non moving trailing edge so I decided to build it up as is visible in the photos. I used 2mm balsa to construct basically a hollow and very light triangle. <o></o>
Last photo shows the aileron pinned in place to check alignment with non moving part. I made the non moving parts a bit wider than the aileron to accommodate for the hinge gap.<o></o>
mike<o></o>
07-01-2012, 12:19 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
A few more photos
To align the trailing edge I use two scrap pieces of thick balsa planks with clamps.<o></o>
These planks follow the curve of the airfoil on both sides and force the trailing edge into perfect alignment while the glue dries.
mike
07-02-2012, 04:07 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
I've been a fan of the Bluehawk since I started flying RC models about 28 years ago. Its still the best looking bipe available today, and the bluehawk scheme just tops it off. As our club was organising the national championship in Norway for F4C in 2008 I wanted a new kit to participate with (not in F4C class, but the beginner scale class), and so I finally had an excuse to buy the CG kit.. Well, I didn't manage to complete the kit in time, missed by 1 or 2 days to get it in flying shape. Sat up all night before the event to try and finish off the motor/tank/servo installation... The model has been flying for a while now but without the cowling. I wanted to mount a smoke system to it as well, so always put off the cowling mounting till I could get around to invest in a smoke pump.
The TME SuperSmoker PRO is now in house ready for installation and the cowling is finally ready painted. I bought Nelson Hobby paint to match the covering, but of course the colour is not an exact match. But its close enough for me. Now I just need ti figure out how to best mount the fuel and smoke oil filler on the cowling.
My Ultimate consists of:
Saito 125A spinning APC 16x4W
Slimline Pitts inverted smoke muffler
1x Bluebird BMS 555MG wing servo
1x HiTech 125 Wing servo
2 x Futaba 3102 for elevator
1 x Futaba 3050 for rudder (push/pull)
1 x Futaba 3003 for throttle
Carbon landing gear
Sullivan tail bracket
Both fuel and smoke tank mounted at CG
Bluehawk text decals redone by Callie Graphics to match covering (original CG decals were to dark)
The reason I've got two different wing servos is a story on its own. Initially I bought two Hitech 125 wing servos to be used for the wing. However, after 2-3 flights I noticed that the plane started to bank to one side. Re-trimming fixed it for a few minutes before it started banking again. It turns out that one of the Hitech's was changing its center after a while of use. Ok, go home a order a new one to replace. Mount the new and take it out for a spin... same problem. Servo starts changing center during flight. Funny thing was that it was probably more than 6 months difference between the two purchases, and from different hobby shops. So in the end the second faulty Hitech servo was replaced by a Bluebird 555 which has the same mounting footprint and has worked well so far.
peternj: I saw that you had use the TME smoke pump in your Ultimate build. Would you be able to provide some details as to where/how you mounted the pump in the model?
If anyone is in need for the decals, I have an electronic trace of the Bluehawk text as vector graphics, as well as a scan of the Ultimate Blue Hawk logos available. Let me know if you want a copy.
Might I be allowed to join the brotherhood as well?
- Thomas
The TME SuperSmoker PRO is now in house ready for installation and the cowling is finally ready painted. I bought Nelson Hobby paint to match the covering, but of course the colour is not an exact match. But its close enough for me. Now I just need ti figure out how to best mount the fuel and smoke oil filler on the cowling.
My Ultimate consists of:
Saito 125A spinning APC 16x4W
Slimline Pitts inverted smoke muffler
1x Bluebird BMS 555MG wing servo
1x HiTech 125 Wing servo
2 x Futaba 3102 for elevator
1 x Futaba 3050 for rudder (push/pull)
1 x Futaba 3003 for throttle
Carbon landing gear
Sullivan tail bracket
Both fuel and smoke tank mounted at CG
Bluehawk text decals redone by Callie Graphics to match covering (original CG decals were to dark)
The reason I've got two different wing servos is a story on its own. Initially I bought two Hitech 125 wing servos to be used for the wing. However, after 2-3 flights I noticed that the plane started to bank to one side. Re-trimming fixed it for a few minutes before it started banking again. It turns out that one of the Hitech's was changing its center after a while of use. Ok, go home a order a new one to replace. Mount the new and take it out for a spin... same problem. Servo starts changing center during flight. Funny thing was that it was probably more than 6 months difference between the two purchases, and from different hobby shops. So in the end the second faulty Hitech servo was replaced by a Bluebird 555 which has the same mounting footprint and has worked well so far.
peternj: I saw that you had use the TME smoke pump in your Ultimate build. Would you be able to provide some details as to where/how you mounted the pump in the model?
If anyone is in need for the decals, I have an electronic trace of the Bluehawk text as vector graphics, as well as a scan of the Ultimate Blue Hawk logos available. Let me know if you want a copy.
Might I be allowed to join the brotherhood as well?
- Thomas
07-02-2012, 06:03 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Very nicely done Thomas!
i did mine in the same scheme, and i used a side-mounted YS120 (no smoke), aluminum gear from TNT and a 'glass cowl.
if i can find another one, it will get a DLE 20. Mine came out too nice to cut up the cowl...
How much does your weigh? I have to check mine, but it seems a bit heavy, but that would be my fault...
Bill S.
i did mine in the same scheme, and i used a side-mounted YS120 (no smoke), aluminum gear from TNT and a 'glass cowl.
if i can find another one, it will get a DLE 20. Mine came out too nice to cut up the cowl...
How much does your weigh? I have to check mine, but it seems a bit heavy, but that would be my fault...
Bill S.
07-02-2012, 06:32 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Thomas, welcome to our Brotherhood, you are oficially # 92 member, bear with pride as you have a very good looking Ultimate biplane, keep posting, your comments are important and sharing is helpful for all members, congratulations again for your Ultimate and have fun.
07-02-2012, 06:44 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Mike, thanks for sharing pictures and explain step by step your ultimate rebuilding process, I believe that in no time, this thread, will be very helpful for every one to build, repair or rebuild another Ultimate, thumbs up and keep posting, best regards.
Alfred.
Alfred.
07-02-2012, 06:49 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Bill: Mine came out at 4270 gram / 9.41lb / 151oz excluding the smoke pump (adds another 100-150 gram). If I would change anything it would have to be the wings. They feel very heavy for rib built wings. Each wing is about 520-530 grams. I did initially plan on going for a 20/26 gasser but was recommended to go with the Saito 125 instead. Reading over this thread I think the gasser option would have been equally as good.
Alfred: thanks for the membership!
- Thomas
Alfred: thanks for the membership!
- Thomas
07-02-2012, 07:15 AM
#896
RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Mine original kit build (not the spare i build and documented here) came in at 9.65 pounds with batteries, a Tiger 90(italian) Slimline smoke pitts muffler TME Smoke pump connected through Dubro smoke valve and servo to allow variable flow rate by programming two channels to work off the spoiler knob on my JR X347 (converted to 2.4).
It's a really nice plane, and if you stare at the cowl long enough it's grinnng at you... taunting you.... saying lets blow work off and go fly....
It's a really nice plane, and if you stare at the cowl long enough it's grinnng at you... taunting you.... saying lets blow work off and go fly....
07-02-2012, 10:43 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Thomas,<o></o>
Nice Ultimate,<o></o>
I would like to ask two questions:<o></o>
1. Where did you obtain the carbon landing gear that you have on your model. I am looking to change the original wire to what you have done. (even though the wire setup has been absolutely trouble free)<o></o>
2. Have you increased the angle of attack on the top wing? It appears that that way in your photo showing the cabanes.<o></o>
mike<o></o>
07-02-2012, 11:44 AM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
The landing gear was bought from Graphtech. - http://www.graphtechrcshop.com/produ...8&categoryId=4. I replaced mine after the original wire gear just about made its way into the lower wings on a bad dead stick landing. Might be a bit pricey, but I think it looks far better than the original wire gear.
I have not measured the AOA on the top wing as I don't have any proper tools for it. All done by eyesight here, :-) I got so fed up with finding the hole for the top mounting pin that I adjusted the mounting bracket to fit with the way the wing was at zero pressure when everything was mounted, including the outboard struts. So the AOA might be slightly off. But I don't think it matters two much overall as the wings are not 100% dead straight due to warp in the wings as a result to the materials being warped. I would like to build a new set of wings to it one day but it flies so fine I don't see the need for it.
- Thomas
I have not measured the AOA on the top wing as I don't have any proper tools for it. All done by eyesight here, :-) I got so fed up with finding the hole for the top mounting pin that I adjusted the mounting bracket to fit with the way the wing was at zero pressure when everything was mounted, including the outboard struts. So the AOA might be slightly off. But I don't think it matters two much overall as the wings are not 100% dead straight due to warp in the wings as a result to the materials being warped. I would like to build a new set of wings to it one day but it flies so fine I don't see the need for it.
- Thomas
07-02-2012, 12:14 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
ORIGINAL: thnilsen
If anyone is in need for the decals, I have an electronic trace of the Bluehawk text as vector graphics, as well as a scan of the Ultimate Blue Hawk logos available. Let me know if you want a copy.
Might I be allowed to join the brotherhood as well?
- Thomas
If anyone is in need for the decals, I have an electronic trace of the Bluehawk text as vector graphics, as well as a scan of the Ultimate Blue Hawk logos available. Let me know if you want a copy.
Might I be allowed to join the brotherhood as well?
- Thomas
Cheers.
07-02-2012, 02:02 PM
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RE: Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.
Arthur: I've put the files online at the links listed below. The only difference between the two JPGfiles are the size/resolution. The ZIPfile contains the BLUEHAWKtext in SVGand EPSformat as well as some bitmaps of the same. You can use the free tool Inkscape to view/edit the SVGfiles if you have no other suitable app. I got 3 bluehawk text logs done byCallie Graphics at the cost of $18 including shipping to Norway, which Ithink was reasonable. Iwould definatley use them again. Igot mine done in the following size:
http://www.crossley-nilsen.com/download/bluehawk.zip (1 MB)
http://www.crossley-nilsen.com/downl...hawk_Logos.jpg (11.1MB)
http://www.crossley-nilsen.com/downl...ogos_Small.jpg (2.7MB)
Good luck with your build. Building takes time, Ifor one know that. Just look it has taken me 4 years to get my build finished. As long as one enjoys the process, it can take all the time in the world. Looking forward to see your results.
- Thomas
45,5 cm (w) / 5.5cm (h) - Bitmap stored as bluehawk-fuse.png
53,5 cm (w) / 6,5cm (h) - Bitmap stored as bluehawk.wing.png
http://www.crossley-nilsen.com/download/bluehawk.zip (1 MB)
http://www.crossley-nilsen.com/downl...hawk_Logos.jpg (11.1MB)
http://www.crossley-nilsen.com/downl...ogos_Small.jpg (2.7MB)
Good luck with your build. Building takes time, Ifor one know that. Just look it has taken me 4 years to get my build finished. As long as one enjoys the process, it can take all the time in the world. Looking forward to see your results.
- Thomas