Nothin' Extra Build?
 

Question 1,2: I am building my second Sig Somethin' Extra kit. I bought 3 of them. The first turned out very nice (I think) for my fourth building attempt, except for the weight. The manufacturer says they should be 4.25-4.75 lbs. Mine first came out at 5lbs 12 oz. I changed some pieces (maingear and tires no wheelpants) and got it down to 5lbs 9 oz. I am using a 55 ax which adds maybe 4 oz over a 40 size engine. I use 4.8v futaba battery-standard servos and mini receiver (6ex package) 8oz dubro tank, regular monocoat. I used paint for fuel proof and for looks inside the cowl which may have added to the weight problem. I use tristock on leading edge of control surfaces. Other than these things, it was built per instructions. My first question is what kind of weights are you guys seeing with this model? I have built other Sig kits and usually the same way -steel rods, tristock and biggest powerplant and fueltank recommended. I usually end up around 4oz. over what they say and think that is reasonable. This model seems to be way out of spec though. Should I be sanding more wood to get closer to weight?

Question 3: I have the wing panels and basic fuse completed on second kit. I was standing around looking at it and deciding on whether to deviate from the plans and put a fuel hatch on it. Then I thought some more and remembering my porky first kit thought I could build a "Nothin Extra" by putting a flat hatch over the fuel tank, a flat light weight hatch over the wing/radio access area and while I was at it, leave the turtle deck off and just make the whole top of the plane flat like an Ugly stick and save a bunch of weight. Has anyone tried this and if so, how did it work, how much does it weighand how does it look?

Question 4: When I crunch some numbers comparing pieces from my 2 kits, it looks like I could save around 9 ounces. I admit that is significant, but I am still suprised to see that even if I were to go the "Nothin Extra" route, I will still have a plane that will be closer to 5lbs than 4-1/4 lbs like you would think a stripped version should be. So I guess my fourth question is could you guys please answer questions 1&2??????

Photos show fuse fuelproofed (epoxy) lightly sanded (10.3oz). Wing panels lightly sanded no jhooks, sevosor placement dowels (15.2 oz) Hatch from first build and turtle deck material (5oz)

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

5 to 6 pounds does not seem unreasonable for this kit. I would not worry about it. I'm sure it will fly great at that weight.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

The SSE are robust and still perform very well on the heavy side. But any plane will fly better with some weight removed from it. I personally wouldn't start at the airframe (just watch out for excessive glue, and only use epoxy where it is recomemded) That OS 55AX is great engine for this plane (IMHO) and I wouldn't change that for this reason. However, your radio gear could go an a diet. Get some Hitec 225 servos, MG or/and BB is up to you. These are pretty affordable and a lot lighter than your standard set up now. If you're using a standard battery pack, you might want to consider investing in two smaller packs and change them at the field when you're half way though your flying day. Since the radio bay in the fuse is so easy to get into via the hatch, I omit the use of a radio switch as well. But I did this mainly because I have had switches fail before. There is also some carbon fiber landing gear available that would also do the job, and look pretty nice as well, I also found some carbon fiber wheel pants as well, sorry I cant remember where I got the landing gear and pants from though..

Please post more picks of the SSE fleet you're creating :)


DM

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

The plane does fly well at 5lbs 9 oz. Just suprised that I am over the recommendation by this much!!! It's like a pound and that would be around 20% at 5lbs. If you go to my gallery, the plane is in there. All the ones I have finished are there. I have been busy! Love to build, if there were only arfs I would have never have made an investment in the hobby. Flying is fun too, don't get me wrong what really attracted me though was to create the thing you are flying. I have had good success with the Sig brand kits. They were hard to get for awhile and I got scared and bought 2 kits for each of their planes that I chose to pursue. Just in case I would lose the ones I have and not be able to replace for whatever reason. I really like the Somethin Extra kit so I got 2 spares for that one!!!!! I want to build one ofthem as nice as I can, and was thinking of buildingone just for maximum performance hence the subject of the thread. Eventually I want to try some scale builds and maybe some scratch from plans also. Idid do some searching on the internet and see that people who are building very light versions of this kit are doing many of the thingsmentionedby you guys. Also, looks like they also are making their own sticktype tail surfaces and ailerons to save weight. Ialso saw wheremany others have exceeded 5-1/2 lbs like I did. Ithought maybe I was doingsomething wrong or something.I am only a low experience pilot who probably couldn' even appreciate the difference between an excellant plane and a pretty good plane, but just want to do them the best I can. Maybe someday I will appreciate the work I'm putting in now. I know one thing- I always add a little tristock where I think it may be needed, and not ready to give that up. Not a half pound though! I couldn't 3D unless I made a bunch of mistakes in a row! I'm still amazed with the fourstars and midstar, but want to have some nice SE's for when I'm ready. Thanks for the excellant and quick responses.</p>

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

5 lb. 11 oz. with  DS821 servos, 6.0v bat, OS 46 AX, shaped wood cowl

Giggles-n-grins ...

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

WOW!! Some nice planes there Mike! Everyone hear knows where you're comming from, enjoying the whole experience rather than just out flying. The best part of it is the ability to stand by the building table and change what ever you want to as you go... just as you said you're thinking of doing looking over the fuse.
I forgot to ask if you're using the steel screws for the L/G mount. nylon saves weight and shears off in a hard landing, instead of ripping the ply mount off the fuse. Also cut your screws down that go past any blind nuts, there doing nothing but adding more weight. The forward section of the engine mount, past the forward mounting screw on the engine, can also be trimmed down.
If you're thinking of "bashing" kits here and there, like building up the tail surfaces for instance, check out this thread on free a cadd program. You can have Kinkos scan your plans for a couple dollars and then load it into the program, mess with it, then have the plans printed (usually about $10), or email custom parts that You designed out to get laser cut and make a whole kit!
Lots of fun stufff!!


Skip the first page and a half and go down to post #41. The first 40 post is a debate about file types for cad, something not needed for this application.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10..._2/key_/tm.htm

DM

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

Nice plane collection Mike. You've been very busy! I'm not quite sure what you're looking for in performance. More acrobatic? More speed? I admit to building heavy myself, but my modified Somethin" Extra was noticably faster than other SSEs I've seen, which I attribute to the FG cowl. The plane only had an ST .45 on it, so not too overpowered and a blast to fly. Mods included a fuel hatch, enlarged rudder and the cowl. Sadly, lost to an over rotated aileron linkage. May she rest in peace[:o]

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

Thanks for the tips, guys. Ya, i just recently changed over all of my lg bolts to nylon. I bought an assortment of different size blind nuts and nylon bolts because I plan to always use this method. I "tested" some the other day on my 4star. They did the job by breaking off on a bouncy landing and saved alot of hassle. I will check out the site you have provided link to. That should be a great start for when I get into the scratch building stuff. Thanks everyone for the tips.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

I made some decisions about this project. I am going to put a flat hatch over the fuel tank and use crossbraces for strength and for a place to bolt it down. I am sticking with the stock turtledeck as they look nice and blend into the canopy so nicely. I am going to make my own canopy hatch setup to blend into the fuel tank hatch. Hopefully I can save enough weight with the canopy hatch to compensate for the extra weight added by the fuel access hatch. Will post some photos soon.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

Do you know what would be good, alarge scale somethin extra! with 30cc petrol,someone needs to do this. The design is so simple and scaled up im sure it could be built light.</p>

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

My most-recent Sig kit had very heavy balsa, probably because a lot of balsa is going into windmills, making it hard for kit companies to get the good stuff.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

ya, the plane is a great design and would be great bigger or smaller. I am real worried about the balsa situation and that is really why I bought all those extra kits. I think the feds are out of control and don't have our best interests in mind. Look up what happened to the Gibson guitar factory recently. They apparently don't vote the way the current feds like and are paying the price with raids on their wood supplies used to make guitars. But I'm just a gun clingin bible thumpin freak from western pa. Sorry to vent but I'm just calling it the way I see it.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

I have been flying my kit bashed SE for 2 years. I never consider weight as a factor with the SE. I actually put mine on floats on Wednesdays during summer. The floats are foam and 32" long. I also use a 6 volty battery and DuBro control linkages. The OS 55Ax is a great engine for the SE. I hardly notice any decreased perfomance with the floats on.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

Very good point about the sudden demand for the balsa. It is playing a part in our hobby more so than inflation. I remember Sig, at one point, was unable to get any balsa at all.
Balsa is grown in South America, so its an international trade.


DM

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

the balsa wood is imported from elsewhere, but once it gets here it is subject to whatever laws the government decides to make or break to use it how they see fit. I don't think their vision matches mine (or hobby enthusiasts in general). The Gibson fiasco was also concerning imported material (Rosewood specifically). Many believe that the fines and siezures they experienced were due to payback for being a non-union right to work corporation. When I recently re-entered the hobby, I was having problems finding the Sig kits that you mention. With some patience and diligence, I was finally able to secure all of the kits I wanted and a backup for future use. As I said earlier, I have a total of 3 of the SE kits! I see the Sig supply seems to be getting better of late, but still seems to be listed as out of stock in many purchase sites. But I think they are also going thru management/ownership changes as well, so it may not all be due to the windmills. I hope they continue to be successful because I really like their products. The kits all build well, look good and perform. I recently got some more done with the thread topic plane and will take and post some photos soon.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

I see your point about importing balsa. Shame about the union coming down on a creditable company like Gibson. Here in Hawaii, all we are is union, and nothing gets done. I can go on, but I would rather talk about your airplane. :D
... and see some more of your pics! hint


DM

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

+1 on the quality of balsa probably being the main reason for the deviation. Excess glue being only a secondary cause - though I've seen a few crashes caused by the opposite problem, so I personally err on the excess side!

Also, I would think removing the turtle deck would noticeably affect the knife edge performance?

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

Building the SSE stock makes the model too heavy. All of the kits that I've seen had excellent balsa.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

Here are some photos that I took of what I decided to do with the project. I am keeping the turtledeck. I added a flat hatch over fuel tank. Sig recommends against this because the glued down hatch adds stability to the structure. So I added two crossbraces for strength and to give me a good place to mount blind nuts and 4/40 nylon screws. Since I made the hatch flat instead of rounded, I also made the canopy flat and reduced the amount of pieces and weight considerably. New canopy setup is half the weight of first kit 2.5oz vs. 4.7.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

More pics further progress, needing pintripes, stickers and some more assembly setup

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

The SE project is getting close to being done. My estimate for finished AUW should be 5lbs 10oz. This is about the same as the first kit I built, but does have some important features that I wanted that would have otherwise added to the tally hadn't I saved some weight here and there. I just fixed a friends plane yesterday that wouldn't run reliably and found it to be a pinhole in fuel line right at the tank. So I do like the idea of the fuel hatch. I also added an extra cell to use 6v rx system which I have been wanting to try. I have a well glued solid airframe with extra supports wherever I thought they could assist. I had fun and learned alot. In conclusion, I do think that Sigs claim of 4.25-4.75 lbs is rather optomistic. I agree that huge weight savings could be made with stick building of the control surfaces, fin and stabilizer but that would detract from the beauty of the slap-it -together ease from which the kit is famous. So, I guess my nothin extra idea ended up true to its word-nothing really extra about the build! Just a fuel hatch and 6v system which is done everyday and is no big deal. But thanks for your input, I will post actual finished weight and pics of completed project. Thanks again.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

Looking forward to seeing the pics. I'm fixing to build my 3rd one of these kits, and don't plan on doing much to it either. ;)

The SSE is just a simple, reliable, good-flying model!

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

Important discovery!!!!! Last night I was cleaning up the basement and noticed something about the Sig Somethin Extra kits. One of the boxes has the weight listed at 4.25 - 4.75 lbs as I have previously stated in the thread. However, another kit that I looked at has it listed as 4.25 - 5 lbs. This claim seems to be more in line with the results we seem to get. I have been commenting on this subject and feel that I needed to post this find. The"5lb" box is all violet cardboard. The "4.75" box is white cardboard with a violet sticker(s). Don't know which box is latest revision or anything but assume the newer one has a more accurate description.

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

I think the violet/purple box is the new one. Good info. Now I can add "balsa being lighter" to the "I remember when" conversations when I'm an old guy :)

Still no pics?? :D


My SSE kit should be in next week. Looking forward to an easy build!

RE: Nothin' Extra Build?
 

I have gotten more done with the kit. Tail wires, hinging, sealed ailerons/elevator, setup neutrals/control throws dual rates/expos. mounted tank/receiver. Still deciding on final touches to covering schemethen, the photos! After completing the above mentioned things, I hung the plane from the ceiling and have been working on some other stuff. I found a ama flying field only 22 miles from home. A wonderful "older feller" (80 something) is in charge. He is a lifelong r/c guy with alot of info and stories. I am member number 6 so I will have great opportunities to have stick time! I hauled my lawn mower up there and mowed the whole field, so my new buddy is happy to have me around too.I will finish the sse soon though, throw her on the scale and take some pics. D, good luck with your project, they are good kits just as they are. I just wanted to have a hatch for the fuel tank and that got me to thinkin!!!!! Now I think if one wanted to build a super light plane of this type, there are kits out there to do just that. This kit does what it does and others do what they do. The way this one flies together, how easy it is to be straight and strong and the way it performs is well documented. I like mine and think I will like the few changes that I made.