I hate CA Glue
 

It had been a while since I built my last kit ..maybe thirty years

So a couple of weeks ago I plunged into a kit and bought the modern CA glues to go with it. Now mind you I used plenty of ventilation
I even wore a respirator and it still gave me hay fever symptoms...

Where did Ambroid glue go? I used to use that. Never made me feel sick. I must have a sensitivity to this stuff?

Right now I have some Elmer's woodworking glue along with some Gorilla glue to take the place of that damn CA shizzle.


Anyone have any advice on this subject? The only other thing I'm using now is the Tower 6 minute epoxy which sets up very fast
otherwise I can wait a day till the Elmer's dries.

Are there any other glue alternatives?

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

fritzdecat,
First of all, welcome back to the hobby. I came into this hobby about 10 years ago and started building with CA at that time. then about 6 years ago I gave it up because of most of the reasons you stated. I hated the stinging eye, the burning lungs, the crap on my fingers, the quick setting parts, the hard to sand wood, etc....... I started using Elmer's Carpenter's Glue and haven't looked back once since the switch. Not only is it easier to work with I feel that the quality of my builds have improved since I switched. The biggest "benefit" that most people who promote CA use is that it's faster to build with, but I disagree. It's been my experience that if you plan your build you can build just as quickly with Elmer's as you can with CA..... if you want to. But then again, building fast leads to mistakes... But that's another subject!! :D

Anyway, that's my 2¢ on the subject.

Ken

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Have you tried Oderless CA? Besides the lack of the smell and the eye burning it is safe for foam... It costs more than smelly CA, but I think it is worth it!

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

The Elmers wood glue works great. It takes a little longer to dry but, that gives you more time to make any adjustments if needed. Also you get alot of glue for cheap.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Thanks that makes an abundance of sense to me. When I measure twice and cut once things turn out better.
I'm gong to stick with the Elmer's carpenter glue like you said and slow down to its speed.


Never heard of the odorless glue thanks for the tip. I might try it for special applications

Yes Elmer's goes a long way and a big bottle is about a buck.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Ambroid liquid cement, great for balsa, ply, hardwood and some plastics.
Right here > > > > http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LX1000&P=ML


Yes Titebond II is a great wood glue. Takes half-hour to set but it dries strong and sands nicely.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

RCKen wrote: Ken, I couldn't agree more. When you plan your build for alaphatic resins, not only do things go quicker, but tighter- and square.

I also use Titebond II. There are some things I still use ca for, but VERY few things.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Sounds like you and I are from the same backgound (Ambroid, thirty year layover). I too started out using the CA but quickly switched back to conventional wood glue (for mostly the same reasons). The one thing I still use is the thin CA but only to quickly tack a part in place when it's not convenient to use clamps or pins.

Only caution I have is VENTILATION_VENTILATION_VENTILATION and plastic wrap on my fingers. Man that stuff wicks thru the wood grain. A finger an inch away can still get caught (:-).

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

I believe that CA glues are great for field repairs but for normal building I believe I may be done with them mostly. I have found that they actually rush my building to its detriment.

Once I am complete with the build I am working on now (which is actually using more epoxy at this point) I will start my next project with titebond.

Hopefully this next project will start directly after I complete this Kougar I'm working on. It's a lot of shaped block wood (much like the Kougar but it is an old Global Cessna kit) and I think it'll be a good primer with this glue.

I like elmer's wood glue a whole lot but the set time is just a little too long.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

I've got to agree with RCKen. Go with the tight bond or Elmer's carpenters glue. You can thin it a bit for better penetration and cleaner joints. One of the guys at the club was showing us the other day that you can used the thined glue and put just a bit on both sides of a joint, then wipe it off with your finger. Let what is left set for a few minuted to dry out. Then put a very small amount on one side of the joint and press the pieces together. Hold them for two or three minutes and you have a joint that you will have trouble pullling apart. Set overnight and it is 100%. You can work with the joint in just five minutes or less, It kicks off quickly when perpaired that way.

Like you I built my first plane in 30+ years last March. Had to try the CA. I've built three with it now and my last major repair was all titebond. I had to make a new wing and I built it like a laser cut. I used some salvaged wood shutter wood for my 1/4" sq and the 1/2x5/8 TE. I was worried about weight, but when I finished, it weighed less than the orginal ARF wing and it is a lot stronger. I read recently that the tight bond gives up a large precentage of its start weight when dry where CA keeps a vary high precentage of it's wet weight. I used about six oz of CA in the first plane, so I'm guessing that if I had used tight bond, I would have saved four oz or so. Maybe more.

I use a lot of epoxy building also, but only on things like firewalls, landing gear mounts, and wing hold downs. Oh yes, 5 minute thinned to dope thickness for sealing the engine and fuel tank compartments. The stuff is a bear to sand though. Watch the fast setting epoxys. The faster they set, the softer the joint. Having said that, I use Devcon 5 minute for almost everything that I use epoxy on. One exception is gluing hinges. It's not because of the strength, but it sets up to quickly to set more than about three hinges in a pannel. There, I use the Devcon 30 minute stuff.

I don't like gorilla glue. It holds like crazy, but the foaming sure can screw up the looks of a joint. I is also a bear to sand off.

OK back to the shop.

Don

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Fritz, I use Superphatic glue from Hobby-Lobby, it soaks far into the wood and a plane will noy break at a glue joint if misfortune happens. Some claim it's hard to sand but I have not noticed that, it sets in 20 minutes so I do as mentioned above, I plan ahead. I built an LT 40 only using it except on the firewall and a TeleMaster 40 using it on everything except the firewall and the gear plate.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Thanks for all the response. I'm glad to hear there are several other alternatives.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Another reason for not using CA is COST. I built a Concept Fleet, using less then one bottle of Titebond, which cocts about five bucks. To have built the same kit with CA would have cost at least $50 or more just for the glue.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Thinning Epoxy? Thinning Glue??

Could someone explain? Give instructions that those of us don't know the tricks???



TIA

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

I love CA.

I had a cut yesterday on the tip of my finger. A bandaid would have done nothing as the cut kept pulling opne. I placed a drop of CA on it and made sure the cut was closed tight. Good as new.

Now for building a model plane, I try to use as little of it as possible. I generally use Titebond, but I did buy a tube of sigment recently to see what it is like.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Elmers probond is what I am using and once you stick the part in place it will stay and bout 10 to 15 min later its got a good hold. But if you are going for looks stay away. It looks like i was eating cheezy poofs while i was building

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

To thin epoxy, use denatured alcohol from the hardware store. The kind used for stove fuel and shelac thinning. This stuff is around 99% pure. Mix a bit of epoxy in a cup. I buy a sleve of 100 from the local medical supply. They are 1 oz in size and work well for all but the big jobs. Once the epoxy is mixed well, add about 10% of it volume in alcohol. Mix like crazy. The premixed epoxy doesn't desolve quickly, so it takes a lot of mixing. It doesn't take much alcohol to thin it. Note, you will loose some strength in the set epoxy. I only thin it to make a clear "paint" that is fuel proof, and I also use it to laminate ply doublers to the balsa sides. It keeps a nice thin joint and with all the area, it holds really well.

To thin Tightbond, simply add some water to it. Again it doesn't take much and mix it in well. You can mix it ahead of time as it will not kick off like the epoxy does. Don't use this for laminating the doublers. It soaks into the woods and as balsa soaks up more, it expands and you end up with a really curved fuselage side on your hands.

To thin Ambroyd, use acetone. This can also be mixed ahead of time as long as you keep it in a sealed jar.

Don

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

I have it all on my bench but I can't ever see myself going back to the stone age again. I love the CA glues. When you have A health problem with it then the orderless CA is the way to go.
With CA and Epoxy I could build A house in A week. A plane still takes months though. ;)

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

I too am highly alergic to regular CA glues. But the odorless CA is acceptable. Based upon my research, lungs damaged from CA will not fully recover. Use a good mask!

Also be carefull with epoxy, as you can develop alergies to it. Many folks have had to leave the boat building business due to epoxy alergy.

Also whenever sanding aything, use a good mask and not one of the cheap paper ones. It's like knowing whether on not a motorcycle helmet is needed... hit youself in the head with an iron pipe once with helmet on and once with it off; if not convienced helmet is needed, repeat the test.

Fly safe, Glover

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

I'm going to have to agree with "AG4ever" I've been building planes before RC was invented. I built control-line planes for my dad in the 50's. CA works well, very well. Once I built a Pete and Poke and I ran out of the CA, so I went to the basement and used the yellow carpenters glue. I used the carpenters glue on the stabilizer. In about a years worth of flying this plane guess what happened. In mid flight the stab broke off and the plane, well you know the rest of the story... Was it the glue, or workmanship, bad bulsa... I'll never know but every plane I've built using CA has never done me in... How do you thin thick CA?? Go to your local hobbie store and but the thinn stuff....

Sorry I couldn't resist.
:D

pcbprotool

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

You might want to re-read what I posted :)

CA has it's place, but for me it is not in most of my plane's joints.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

If you are using CA a mask is a waste of time. The vapour will go straight through it.

You need an extractor fan to give positive ventilation.

See below mine cost £12. Hang the hose out the window and set it to suck. Place the fan unit next to the area to be glued and work away.

I am very very allergic to both CA and epoxy but use both with this system. [ Surgical gloves as well with epoxy. ]

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

A few months ago I laminated (3) 6 foot long balsa sticks for the main spar for a 12 foot TeleMaster. I used thick CA, I spent the next 20 days taking Amoxicillin 500, Benedryl and bed rest.

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

Count me anong those who love it.

Sure, if you have a medical problem with it, stop using it, consult your phsician, do not induce vomiting, void where prohibited, etc.

But if it doesn't cause you any problems, it's the best thing since Ambroid!

RE: I hate CA Glue
 

I use it all , GOOP for Clear canopies,
Epoxy for firewall's and Major wing joints. Gear mounts.
CA here and their... CA is very light.
We always used RC 56 for hinges.

I did grow up with ambroid.