Sig Hog Bipe - Build Thread
 

Hey Ken, take a look at what that Fat Old Elf just dropped off at the house!

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

[sm=thumbs_up.gif][sm=thumbs_up.gif][sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Somebody has been a good boy this year!!!!!! ;)

Ken

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Yes, you will like it a lot :D

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Master Alex,

Santa was a little late ordering my Hog Bipe but I should get it in a couple weeks. When are you going to start building yours and will you do the build here? Inquiring minds want to know?

aerojunkie

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Congrat Alex,

Everything I hear about it, says it's a great plane....

Just to warn you... There are a few people on this forum that will insist you put a 4-stroke motor in it. I've never heard or the "Biplane Police" but, they could exist..


Just to warn you.. 4-stroke, or take you chances... :D:D:D

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

I agree re: the 4 stroke. Most agree that a 90 is best but mine flew great on a 72 Saito and after I crashed it I got another kit ready to start because I liked it so much. Built an Astro Hog while in morning and now ready to build the Bipe. If more posts here it may prompt me to go clear off the board and open the box! Good luck with yours!

Jim

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

I've always wanted to do one of these, I can't say for sure, but I may give it a go and do a build thread. I am in the process of adding a second building bench to my shop (thanks for the pictures MinnFlyer) so I can get this going. I am not the fastest builder, but if there's interest I can give it a shot.

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Oooh, thanks for the heads up there, I am going to put a OS .61FX in mine ... [X(]

:D No not really. I'm putting a Saito 100 on her! I am also fairly sure that I'm going to add a cowl - an RV-4.

-MA

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Master Alex,
I just finished building my "Kit Table" (I have a table that I use for ARF's but is not quite flat enough for kits), I'm just waiting for the sheet of glass that I ordered, it should be delivered in a few weeks and then I'm ready to build.

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

FWIW, I have a sheet of glass that I lay onto my table for the covering/finishing process. I do not build on it, however. I have yet to invest in a magnetic building system (don't flog me Ken!), so I'm still sticking pins into ceiling tile. With as much pounding/clamping/abuse that I give my table, I just don't trust myself keeping the glass on the table full time. :D

How thick is your glass sheet? Have you seen Caffenman's build table? I believe his entire table is glass (1/4" thick) - very nice.

-MA

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

In case anyone's interested in the Table I referred to in post 7, here's the [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6155743/anchors_6155743/mpage_1/key_Melamine/anchor/tm.htm#6155743]link[/link].

I built the one that Minnflyer drew out and it is solid as a rock. Picked up a slightly damaged hollow core door at Menards for $7 :D - there was a small hole on one side - perfect for our use.

-MA

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Master Alex,

My building table is 7'x3' and the glass that I ordered is 1/2" thick and tempered. I will be using the magnet systen that is on the airfield models web site. I ordered the magnets and the wood needed to make the fixtures and just waiting for everything to arrive. I'm not worried about breaking the glass table, I'll use my ARF table for anything other than laying down sticks;). Here is a photo of the table (the one in the back) before the glass and the two shelves. I'm still in the process of putting my shop together but not having it completed hasn't stopped me from having planes, it's a work in progess.

AJ

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

I like Ken's table frame, very simple and sturdy. I want to add for the leveling, you can buy adjustable furniture feet at Home Depot (Lowe's, Rona, etc.) that you drill a hole into your leg (or support frame or whatever) and then a threaded socket goes into the hole and a threaded foot screws into the socket. Use about 6-8 of these around Ken's frame (with the feet pointing up to support the top) and you can perfectly level and support whatever building surface you choose to use. They are infinitely adjustable and allow you to re-true everything as often as you want in only a few minutes.

Mark

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

mmattackx,
I haven't seen Ken's table so I can't comment on it but I'm sure that it is nice and does the job to Kens complete satisfaction. I can assure you that my table is solid, it is made of 1x3 red oak, the legs are made by joining two boards in an "L" shape with glue and five 1.25" wood screws, I built it square and true. It has leveling feet (1/2" dia bolts, washers, nuts) on each leg, no leveling will be needed in the center because the 1/2" thick glass will be supported only on the four corners and because it's tempered it will not bend. I will be putting a 22 gauge steel sheet over the glass and using the "Magnet System" for building when appropiate. This table is solid and will outlast me and anyone alive today and hopefully it will be sufficient, only time will tell;).

If anyone is interested in a table like this I would be happy to make a drawing and email the file.

Anyways, on with the build!

AJ

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

MasterAlex, good luck on the Hog Bipe build. It took me about 8 months, however I had a lot of things keeping me away from the build...like babies! Flies like you would expect it to, and then some.

I took my chances and no one has a warrant out for me yet! [8D]

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

C'mon now, you've had plenty of time to get that building table together (unless your pace is similiar to mine [:o]), lets see some building! :)

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

:D:D
Guilty as charged! Appreciate the encouragement. I'll see what this week brings given my work schedule. ... and yes, I did finish that 2nd building table ;)

-MA

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Okay, here goes ...

After a public flogging from r2champion ;) I cleaned off the table and got this project started. I am going to see what kind of build thread I can pull off here. The last Hog thread that I read ([link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2560569/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm]link[/link]) had its owner go AWOL (I think work got in the way) and I certainly hope to wrap this build up for spring/early summer flying. We shall see. FWIW, that linked thread is pretty good and shows a great deal of detail.

Now I can't commit to an awesome thread like Ken's LT-40 build last year, but I hope to share this experience with you guys as I go. I'm not the fastest builder and I have other "real world" commitments too ... BUT I am hoping those of you that follow this thread can offer enough encouragement to see me through the eventual pitfalls this will bring.

BTW, this is my first Bipe Build so I may have some beginner-type bipe questions so bear with me here :D.

A few notables on the build.

1) I am going to be doing the dual-aileron enhancement
2) I am going to power this with a Saito 100
3) I will likely put a cowl on this - RV-4
4) I will likely replace the tailwheel with a Sullivan (I do this on all my kit builds)
5) I will likely replace the supplied pushrods
6) Going naked - no pants on this build - I fly from grass and it will probably be more pain than its worth

The linked post above talked about replacing the landing gear and landing gear location. I must admit to being mildly interested in the gear mod ... more clearance might be something I could use - then again, bigger wheels solves that too!

On to the first steps (after having had the manual in the ... ahem library for a couple weeks) - unpacking and ID'ing the wood.

-MA

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

So I identified the wood pieces and marked each so I could later identify. This also got me familiar with the kit contents. This always takes more time than I think its going to, but its worth it later so you don't mistakenly use the wrong wood. Everything starts to look the same once the balsa dust starts flying ... this gives me a fighting chance that I'll at least be using the proper sized wood if nothing else :eek:.

Since I don't yet have the Saito, I am going to start with the wings. Heck, there are two of them so I might as well start here ... I'll be seeing ribs for a while! The Hog Bipe is not completely laser cut like some of the other Sig kits. The ribs are die-cut and you need to be careful popping them free. There are tabs on the ribs that are made to break free once framed up on the building board - because they are designed to break, they can/will snap off if you're not careful. I found that working out the end with the tab first saved me a ton of frustration. Overall, it was much easier to extract the ribs than I figured - I only used a blade a couple of times and I only had to CA 2 tabs back onto their respective ribs (very small amount - tack glue only).

At the end of this, I called it a night. Hey, I'm pacing myself! I've got a club meeting tonite and will likely get back to the build this weekend. CA will meet balsa very soon! [8D]

Picture1 - Ahh, the beginning of the build - pristine bench, crisply folded plans, nothing but balsa, ply and some hardware - feel the anticipation!
Picture2 - Wing Plans
Picture3 - Die Cut Ribs
Picture4 - Progress. My little pile of ribs
Picture5 - A little tip. I am preserving an outline of every part so I can later scratch build a Hog - if I am so inclined. Capturing the outline of the part and the size of the wood is all I'll need. I'll scan this sheet when I'm done so I can electronically store it.

Until next time...

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Master Alex,

Great start to a new Hog Bipe build, I'm glad to see you finally decided to do it.

As mentioned a few posts back, I expect my Hog Bipe kit soon and as soon as I finish my building table (sounds familiar?) I'll start the kit. I guess you'll start a few weeks before me but I'm betting that I'll finish a few months behind you.;)

Today I received the magnets for the "Magnet System" and tomorrow I should get the wood for the fixtures. I'll cut the wood this weekend to get everything ready. Hopefully it won't be too long before I get the chance to glue some "Hog Balsa" together.

Good luck with your build and I'll be keeping tabs for sure.


Miguel

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

I got a bit more work done last night ... not much, but any little progress is just that - progress.

I note for others building this kit - don't blindly pop out the circular die-cut disks in all the Ribs, you only need those removed between the bottom wing center extending out to the aileron servo - if you're doing the dual aileron servo mod. This is so the servo leads can pass through the wing. After popping out 2 disks, my spidy senses started tingling and I re-evaluated "why" I was doing what I was doing. "Hey the top wing has NO servos smartguy"! Fortunately, I realized the error of my ways. Maybe this saves someone else some grief.

Below are some progress photos

Pictures1&2 - Top wing, ribs in place and CA'd down
Pictures3&4 - Towards the outer portion of the wing, you have to space 2 ribs between part P2 (Ply Connection to Strut). Took me a few minutes to find this on the plans. Anyway, this is what it looks like - oh, and yeah they're upside down in the picture ;)
Picture5 - Do do not glue in P2 at this time, so I clamped the 3 parts together, CA'd the ribs to the spar and removed P2.

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Concerning removing the center hole in all the ribs. It is a good idea to remove them all.

The reason is that when you applying the monokote, the iron will heat and expand the air inside, between the ribs. With the holes in the ribs, the heated air will move into other areas of the wing and not present a problem by 'puffing' the monokote between each rib like a balloon.

This is also true on a hot day when the plane heats up due the sun.

It really is standard and not a problem to remove them.

Nice pictures and great documentation of your build!

I have that same plane and really like it. Leaving the wheel pants off is a good idea. During a takeoff, mine came up through the bottom wing and broke the trailing edge and the back piece of a rib. Since I bought the plane built, I did not have an outline of the ribs to repair them. So, I must sand a replacement piece until it fits....just haven't done this yet.

It would be great to have a copy of your outlined ribs...

Good luck on your build!

Jeff

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

I couldn't help but notice that you don't have a continuous spar through the center section of the top wing. Isn't it supposed to be? I built one a couple years ago but can't remember. It looks like I see where it's supposed to be on your plan. If I'm wrong please forgive me just can't remember.

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Cubfloater: I was a little "weirded out" when i built that part of my hog bipe as well. However, that is what the manual calls for. There are a few other things later in the wing building that beef that part up including a solid top spar, a wing joiner as well as two cabane mounts the span a couple of ribs. All said and done, the center of the wing seems to be pretty strong. I still plan on fiberglassing the center section on both wings given that this plane is a real performer!

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

... yeah, I thought about that too. I typically put smaller holes for air escape when covering. Probably 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of another. Maybe structurally it matters a tiny bit but ... whatever I'm past that now ;).


Thanks! Its the "honeymoon" phase right now, we'll see how well I'm doing come time to cover, :D

Jeff, PM me and I'll shoot it to you.

No doubt! I read that portion of the manual about 5 times. Fortunately SIG has it in bold that this is not a mistake. Also the pictures in the manual make it clear that this is the way to go. Like *JCB* said, it had me a bit "Wierded out" thinking the spar isn't solid all the way across.

Humm ... excellent idea!

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

You're complaining about my flogging? :D Got you building didn't I??? [8D]

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

As a matter of fact you did r2champion ... thanks, its was just what I needed! :)

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Build looks good so far MasterAlex, good luck with the rest of it.

Also, I might need you to return the favor, to get me on the building table as well!

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Not much more progress made over the weekend - NFL Playoffs sucked the energy from me.

The next step of the build is to affix the leading edge. Now, I use a combination of CA and Wood Glues throughout my building. Anyplace I'm potentially going to sand almost always gets the Titebond. The leading edge is one of those places where I use Titebond instead of CA.

The method I used was to first dry-fit the LE onto the ribs. I clamped it on and marked where the glue went. I only did this on one side of the LE. Next, I unclamped and placed a bit of Titebond onto the bottom portion of the notch on each rib (see picture1). Next, I ran a small bead on the marked leading edge, replaced and clamped. Worked out well in my opinion - we'll see how much this pays off later when sheeting.

Whenever using CA, regardless of how careful I am, I always get the tip clogged. A little trick I learned here on RCU keeps me from getting too frustrated with that ... next time you're in the LHS, pickup some additional CA bottle tips and caps. While you're there, pickup some Acetone (local hardware store may have a better price). Next time your CA bottle tip clogs, don't throw it away. Unscrew it and toss it into a jar of Acetone. A few hours later and it's a good as new! I get in the habbit of cleaning my CA tips after every gluing session. I always keep some fresh (sealed) tips on-hand to seal my CA during the cleaning process - also keeps the air out. Which for some reason, I think is good.

Next up - Truing up the trailing edge sheeting.


Picture1 - Notch glued, notice mark on leading edge where I also glued
Picture2 - Glogged CA tip
Picture3 - Acetone Bath
Picture4 - LE Secured and curing

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

When I first looked at the steps for the wings in the manual, I thought to myself - not too bad, "I ought to blast through most of the upper wing in a few days". I should know better! :D

The first step on the trailing edge sheeting is to true up the edges and then cut them to 1". Now I know some guys that might skip this step thinking - "Hey, SIG's a great vendor, their wood is going to be straight and true - no need for me to waste time getting this puppy true..." Wrong Col. Sanders!!

Take a look at pictures1 and 2. This is the finished "trued" piece of sheeting directly from the kit. I about fell over when I held this against the straightedge - it looked like the lips of a smiley face! It was bowed that bad. I had to take pictures once I got it true. Picture1 is a measurement taken from the center and Picture2 is taken from the edge.

Of course, the second piece was virtually true to start with ... go figure.

Now that the sheeting is trued and cut its a matter of "glue and go", right? Well not in my case...

Now, I am about to show my anal retentive side - I'm feeling a bit vulerunable here - but this gives you a peek into my psyche.

The picture in the manual shows someone using Thin CA to affix the bottom section of the TE to the underside of the ribs - of course there's nothing holding this to the ribs ... at least nothing in the picture. So I think to myself, "how are you going to hold that TE sheeting onto the underhang of the ribs while at the same time gluing?". "Not well", was my answer! :D

So I came up with a cheesy solution - but it worked, so I can use it 2 more times (left and right wings)!

I figured, why not brace the sheeting from underneath? So I grabbed some scrap 1/4" balsa and fabricated 10 braces that fit under the TE sheeting and keeps it flush under the ribs. Brilliant, says the Guiness guy!

It ended up working better than I hoped. Since I used Titebond on this I weighted down the structure and grabbed an Adult Beverage ;)


Picture1 - Trued piece; measurement at center
Picture2 - Trued piece; measurement at end [X(]
Picture3 - Fixture used to true edges - thanks Caffeenman!
Picture4 - This is the brace I fabricated to keep the LE Sheeting flush under the Ribs
Picture5 - Here you can see the little braces ready to be puched into place under the glued sheeting
Picture6 - A closeup of the little brace at work

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

hmmmm,
so thats the lose with non flat wing...
its kinda glue it with a prayer that all the ribs will meet the TE.

nice idea to hold the sheeting.
keep up the goodwork, i want to build one of these some day.

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Okay, the trailing edge sheeting is on. I read the next step about 50 times, looked at the plans and parts and even then couldn't bring myself to do what the directions were asking ...

The next step calls for sawing through the first 4 ribs all the way to the main spar. Check out Picture1, I outlined the portion that needs to be removed. This is an un-natural thing for this builder to do. After convincing myself that I could "fix it" if needed, I went ahead and cut out the material. Of course, this was the right thing to do, but it really felt awkward at the time.

It must be the day to get stumped - it was that way at work too [:@]. Anyway, the next step was the sheer webbing. Here's where I have to ask the Hog experts out there if this is right ...

It appears that there are only 4 sheer webs per wing 1/2 on the upper wing (Picture4). I am accustomed to putting sheer webbing across the entire wing, but it appears that the Hog doesn't need it?? Is this correct? Hopefully someone who's built this kit can weigh in. I went ahead and installed the 8 total sheer webs that I know are called for - they are curing at the moment.

I decided to look ahead and true up the leading edge sheeting for the next step. I couldn't believe how "un-true" this was. Now I've built my share of kits over the years and have never experienced this poor of a wood selection - this is not a knock on SIG as this can happen to anyone ... but geez. [:'(] I tried to snap a picture of how bad this was. Check out Picture5. This is sitting as square as I could get it on my glass table top. Not only is it bent up and the ends, but its warped across the legnth. This piece may get tossed for a sample from my scrap building wood pile.

Picture1 - This is what needs to be removed from W-1T - scary
Picture2 - Once the scrap is removed, the ply piece fits snug onto the bottom spar
Picture3 - Starting to take shape
Picture4 - Here are the Sheer Webs - only 4 per side on the Top Wing?? Is this right?
Picture5 - Sheer Webbing clamped down and curing
Picture6 - Picture doesn't do it justice - this was one "out of shape" piece of balsa

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Don't worry about removing the material from the ribs. The pieces that build it back up are ply and are much stronger in the end than a small piece of rib that was removed. It was designed this way. As far as the sheer webbing, no sweat there either. Adding sheer webbing to the outboard rib bays are just merely adding weight and add no beneficial strength. The ply spar along with the 4 sheer webs per wing halve give plenty of strength. Keep up the good work ;)!

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Hey thanks a TON champ! I figured I was on the right track - just different from other kits I've built before.

-MA

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Now that I'm comfortable with the build thus far - thanks again r2champion - the next step calls for sheeting the leading edge. Now I vented a bit in my last post about how poor the sheet stock was... In truing the sheet, I removed almost 1/4" of material. It made it so the sheet almost didn't reach the main spar. It did; barely (and I went back from underneath once I removed the wing from the board and further secured it). Check out Picture1 - do you guys think I ought to add some scrap sheeting to this and extend it to the trailing edge of the main spar?

I cut the cap strips out next. Not much to show here, really. Its a fairly simple step. Picture3 shows how I use my Exacto Blade to measure the proper length of balsa - hold it in place on the wing and press on the strip with the blade to make a small mark. Put the wood on a cutting surface and finish the cut - perfect fit every time :D.

By the way, you guys that have made multiple build threads (RCKen, Minn, etc.) - do you use some sort of tripod or something to get some of your shots? I need about 4 hands to accomplish some of the photography found in your builds. I've got a whole new respect for what it takes to document progress!


Once the cap strips were on and cured, I removed the wing and started on the underside. This is where additional strength is added to the center structure of the upper wing.

Next Step - Sheeting the lower portion of the wing (hopefully those pieces are a but more true to begin with)


Picture1 - Sheeting in place - there's not much sheeting to attach to the spar (there are NO gaps). Any reason to add some scrap sheeting here and extend to the trailing edge of the main spar?
Picture2 - Picture of entire top wing after sheeting
Picture3 - Marking length of cap strip.
Picture4 - Assembled P-1 and B-2 installed and curing. NOTE: I epoxied the top assembly earlier and it is fully cured in this picture.

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

... just curious, outside of a few people, there doesn't seem to be much interest in this thread - maybe there's just too many winter builds going. [&:]

Guys, let me know - do you want to see this thread continue?

-MA

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

yes yes yes

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Good thread - please keep it going. I have one NIB and I am following this quietly absorbing all of the info for when I get to mine. Thanks for taking the time to share your build with us.[8D]

Steve

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Yes keep going, I am watching.

RE: Sig Hog Bipe
 

Me too...

Thanks for sharing your build... and keep it up...