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06-11-2003 | 09:50 PM
#1
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From: St.Louis, MO
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HELLO OUT THERE,
JUST SIGNED UP WITH RC UNIVERSE,THIS IS A TEST..
I OWN A 110 HELI AND LOVE IT.I'M NEW TO THE RC
WORLD.ANY ADVISE? I BUILT MY 110 ABOUT TWO
YEARS AGO AND HAD UP A FEW TIMES THEN.LAST
YEAR I DID'NT HAVE MUCH TIME ,BUT THIS SUMMER
I PLAN ON PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE.SO FAR
NO MAJOR PROBLEMS EXCEPT TAIL ROTOR SPINNING
BEEN TRYING TO CORRECT PROBLEM AND THIS FORUM
HAS BEEN A BIG HELP.SO I THOUGHT I JOIN.ANY ADVISE
WOULD BE NICE.THANKS.
LOOK FORWARD TO HERE FROM YOU...
JUST SIGNED UP WITH RC UNIVERSE,THIS IS A TEST..
I OWN A 110 HELI AND LOVE IT.I'M NEW TO THE RC
WORLD.ANY ADVISE? I BUILT MY 110 ABOUT TWO
YEARS AGO AND HAD UP A FEW TIMES THEN.LAST
YEAR I DID'NT HAVE MUCH TIME ,BUT THIS SUMMER
I PLAN ON PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE.SO FAR
NO MAJOR PROBLEMS EXCEPT TAIL ROTOR SPINNING
BEEN TRYING TO CORRECT PROBLEM AND THIS FORUM
HAS BEEN A BIG HELP.SO I THOUGHT I JOIN.ANY ADVISE
WOULD BE NICE.THANKS.
LOOK FORWARD TO HERE FROM YOU...
06-11-2003 | 11:13 PM
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From: Webster, MA
Newbie
Hi Rowesteel! 
Welcome to the RCU group!
Use the SEARCH feature in the LMH forums, like "tail spinning", or "tail rotor control" or use your imagination. You will find DOZENS of threads and posts with discussions and solutions of this same subject.
Meanwhile, several folks will come in and give you advice.
It would help if you posted your heli setup:
Engine
Receiver/Tx
Servos
Gyro
Etc.
Happy Choptering,
Russ
Welcome to the RCU group!
Use the SEARCH feature in the LMH forums, like "tail spinning", or "tail rotor control" or use your imagination. You will find DOZENS of threads and posts with discussions and solutions of this same subject.
Meanwhile, several folks will come in and give you advice.
It would help if you posted your heli setup:
Engine
Receiver/Tx
Servos
Gyro
Etc.
Happy Choptering,
Russ
06-12-2003 | 12:41 AM
#3
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From: St.Louis, MO
Newbie
RUSS,
THANKS FOR THE REPLY.I'M KNEW TO THIS SIGHT ALSO.
I HOPE I'M DOING THIS RIGHT.ANYWAY I HAVE A Vmax6
ENGINE,A 'AIRTRONICS' RD6000 RADIO,USING MECHANICAL
GYRO THAT CAME WITH THE 110 KIT AND THE SERVOS IM
NOT SURE,I'LL HAVE TO CHECK WHEN I GET HOME TONIGHT.
I'VE BEEN USING 'NORVEL' FUEL WITH 15% NITRO AND TWO
COMPRESSION RINGS.I HAD TO ORDER NEW STRAPS FOR
THE MUFFLER THE OTHER DAY FROM 'LITE MACHINES',THEY
WERE REAL NICE ON THE PHONE AND 'PAUL' CALLED ME
BACK AND GAVE ME HINTS ON WHAT TO CHECK FOR MY TAIL
SPINNING PROBLEM..
THANKS!
LANNY
THANKS FOR THE REPLY.I'M KNEW TO THIS SIGHT ALSO.
I HOPE I'M DOING THIS RIGHT.ANYWAY I HAVE A Vmax6
ENGINE,A 'AIRTRONICS' RD6000 RADIO,USING MECHANICAL
GYRO THAT CAME WITH THE 110 KIT AND THE SERVOS IM
NOT SURE,I'LL HAVE TO CHECK WHEN I GET HOME TONIGHT.
I'VE BEEN USING 'NORVEL' FUEL WITH 15% NITRO AND TWO
COMPRESSION RINGS.I HAD TO ORDER NEW STRAPS FOR
THE MUFFLER THE OTHER DAY FROM 'LITE MACHINES',THEY
WERE REAL NICE ON THE PHONE AND 'PAUL' CALLED ME
BACK AND GAVE ME HINTS ON WHAT TO CHECK FOR MY TAIL
SPINNING PROBLEM..
THANKS!
LANNY
06-12-2003 | 02:08 AM
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From: Webster, MA
Newbie
Hi again Rowesteel:
I am assuming you mean that the tail is trying to spin around with the machine, as opposed to the tail rotor is spinning (or slipping) on the tail rotor shaft??
If the tail is trying to do circles with the airframe, I would suspect you have a gyro adjustment or trim problem. If the tail rotor is slipping on the tailrotor shaft, you may have loose setscrews holding the tailrotor hub to the hollow shaft. (OR stripped tailrotor servo gears if you may have had a crash or two)
I fly a Corona, electric version of yours, which has an electronic gyro, so I'm afraid I can't be of any help with the Arlton mechanical gyro.
Stand by for a bit, and some of the 110 experts like darthdrk, spiro or others will come to your rescue!
Good luck and Happy Choptering,
Russ
I am assuming you mean that the tail is trying to spin around with the machine, as opposed to the tail rotor is spinning (or slipping) on the tail rotor shaft??
If the tail is trying to do circles with the airframe, I would suspect you have a gyro adjustment or trim problem. If the tail rotor is slipping on the tailrotor shaft, you may have loose setscrews holding the tailrotor hub to the hollow shaft. (OR stripped tailrotor servo gears if you may have had a crash or two)
I fly a Corona, electric version of yours, which has an electronic gyro, so I'm afraid I can't be of any help with the Arlton mechanical gyro.
Stand by for a bit, and some of the 110 experts like darthdrk, spiro or others will come to your rescue!
Good luck and Happy Choptering,
Russ
06-12-2003 | 06:55 AM
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From: Vienna, AUSTRIA
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Let me see if I can get this straight: The main rotor on the LMH spins counter-clockwise (seen from above), thus exerting torque on the frame in the opposite direction.
Hence: If the heli itself spins clockwise, and yaw input does not achieve anything, you are not getting enough speed on the tail rotor.
Then it is possible that setscrews somewhere are lose: either those holding the TR to the TR shaft, or (happens quite often) those holding the black (front) gear on the TR wire.
Try holding the main rotor and manually spin the tail rotor. If you can do that, it is either the setscrews, or one of the red gears (aft on the TR wire and on the TR shaft) has come lose or has stripped. In this case you would have to replace the part in question, as there are not setscrews you could tighten.
If the above description does not fit your problem, please describe in more detail.
Oh yes, and try to stay off Caps Lock.
Hence: If the heli itself spins clockwise, and yaw input does not achieve anything, you are not getting enough speed on the tail rotor.
Then it is possible that setscrews somewhere are lose: either those holding the TR to the TR shaft, or (happens quite often) those holding the black (front) gear on the TR wire.
Try holding the main rotor and manually spin the tail rotor. If you can do that, it is either the setscrews, or one of the red gears (aft on the TR wire and on the TR shaft) has come lose or has stripped. In this case you would have to replace the part in question, as there are not setscrews you could tighten.
If the above description does not fit your problem, please describe in more detail.
Oh yes, and try to stay off Caps Lock.
06-12-2003 | 05:23 PM
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From: St.Louis, MO
Heli spinning counter-clockwise
Aracan,
The tail rotor and Arlton gyro are spinning in conjunction
with the main rotor,it is the heli itself that rotates counter
clockwise when i'm trying to hover between 1' to 3' off the
ground. I read a thread that 'Spiro' wrote on this problem,
but it was more in regards to an electric gyro not the
mechanical gyro that comes with the '110' kit.By the way
thanks for the reply and your suggestion(caps lock off.)
As you can tell i'm new to this sight as with RC heli's,but
I really am becoming addicted to the hobbie..
Thanks
Lanny
The tail rotor and Arlton gyro are spinning in conjunction
with the main rotor,it is the heli itself that rotates counter
clockwise when i'm trying to hover between 1' to 3' off the
ground. I read a thread that 'Spiro' wrote on this problem,
but it was more in regards to an electric gyro not the
mechanical gyro that comes with the '110' kit.By the way
thanks for the reply and your suggestion(caps lock off.)
As you can tell i'm new to this sight as with RC heli's,but
I really am becoming addicted to the hobbie..
Thanks
Lanny
06-12-2003 | 07:53 PM
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From: Webster, MA
Newbie
Hi Again Rowesteel!
For whatever reason, the LMH 110 guys are over at the electric forum, so they aren't aware you need assistance ... I'll try to help. I think you need to adjust the tail rotor linkage for more or less tail rotor pitch. Have you tried changing the "rudder" (tail rotor) trim on the transmitter??
Have you checked the construction manual for the proper linkage throws and lengths??
If you don't have the manual, it's downloadable from the Lite Machines website.
It's fairly safe to say that the tail rotor drive system is running O.K. and it sounds like the whole tail is spinning around with the rotor??
I think the glow version main rotor rotates COUNTER clockwise (as does the electric version) ... is that true??
Which way is the heli "body" rotating ... with the main rotor or in the opposite direction??
Oh, and by the way, you forgot to mention whether that heli was involved in a "hard landing", a crash, or something of the like ... you may have a tailrotor servo with stripped plastic gears??
Waiting for your reply,
Russ
For whatever reason, the LMH 110 guys are over at the electric forum, so they aren't aware you need assistance ... I'll try to help. I think you need to adjust the tail rotor linkage for more or less tail rotor pitch. Have you tried changing the "rudder" (tail rotor) trim on the transmitter??
Have you checked the construction manual for the proper linkage throws and lengths??
If you don't have the manual, it's downloadable from the Lite Machines website.
It's fairly safe to say that the tail rotor drive system is running O.K. and it sounds like the whole tail is spinning around with the rotor??
I think the glow version main rotor rotates COUNTER clockwise (as does the electric version) ... is that true??
Which way is the heli "body" rotating ... with the main rotor or in the opposite direction??
Oh, and by the way, you forgot to mention whether that heli was involved in a "hard landing", a crash, or something of the like ... you may have a tailrotor servo with stripped plastic gears??
Waiting for your reply,
Russ
06-12-2003 | 09:07 PM
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From: St.Louis, MO
Mini Boy
Russ,
Being new to RC Heli's everything seems to be in fast motion
when trying to hover.The main rotor blades due move counter
clockwise which is also the direction of the spin.I will check my
manaul tonight after work and double check the linkages.Trim
adjustment on my Tx does not have much affect then again
by the time I get the Heli up to about 1' everything is in fast
motion and then I will lower throttle and land(not to hard).
Thanks again for the help.
Lanny
Being new to RC Heli's everything seems to be in fast motion
when trying to hover.The main rotor blades due move counter
clockwise which is also the direction of the spin.I will check my
manaul tonight after work and double check the linkages.Trim
adjustment on my Tx does not have much affect then again
by the time I get the Heli up to about 1' everything is in fast
motion and then I will lower throttle and land(not to hard).
Thanks again for the help.
Lanny
06-12-2003 | 11:28 PM
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From: Mesa, AZ
Newbie
Sounds like you are on the right track. If you have not already, give the heli a good once over. Just follow through the building manual and make sure everything is setup and tightened as they suggest.
In regards to your specific tail rotor problem…
- Check to see that the long tail rotor servo pushrod is moving in the correct direction. It should move forward when you give the transmitter right rudder.
- Check to see that the control horn on the tail rotor servo is oriented as per the instructions. They suggest a 20 degree offset for some differential throw and this will work well with your Arlton gyro. The picture in the manual illustrates this well.
- Check to see that the bell crank on the tail rotor gearbox is at 90 degrees to the tail boom with the transmitter stick (and trim) centered. If not, screw the clevis on the end of the long tail rotor servo pushrod in and out until the bell crank lines up.
- Check to see that the tail rotor blades are set close to “neutral” once you have the above steps taken care of. With the rudder stick centered and trim set to center, the square base of the blade roots should be flat and lined up with each other. This will get you very close to where you need to be, but some trim adjustments will always be necessary later.
- Check the full throw of the tail rotor servo in each direction. Once you have everything setup as above, try giving full left and right rudder on your transmitter. Ideally you want the tail rotor blades to rotate through the maximum possible deflection in each direction without binding the servo. Servo bind will occur shortly before the slider hits the tail rotor hub (~ 1mm) and near the same deflection in the opposite direction. Proper setup will most likely involve choosing different servo arm holes, tail rotor bellcrank holes, locking collar and gyro pivot mount position, or perhaps a little of everything. If your radio has adjustable servo travel of some sort or another, this process goes very quickly. Just make sure when you are all done that the tail rotor blades return to the “neutral” position when the rudder stick is centered. Also don’t forget to use tread lock on the gyro pivot mount setscrew.
- Check the gyro setup. The setscrew on the gyro pivot mount should be pointing straight up. If you have the “dual gain” gyro version, the manual recommends the high gain mode with the spider slider pin through the upper hole in the gyro spindle. Make sure the gyro paddles are angled aproximatly10 degrees and evenly with everything on the gyro centered. Again the manual has great pictures of this. Finally, the entire gyro mechanism should move very very freely. If there is any binding, grabbing, slop, or roughness in the gyro’s movement determine the cause of the problem and correct it.
It sounds to me like you simply need to get the tail rotor blades closer to their “neutral” position with the radio gear properly setup. Once you have everything straightened up just like the manual says, give it another try. You should be able to counteract any remaining drift with the rudder trim quite easily. Keep in mind that as you throttle up and down, some rudder stick input will be required on your part to keep the nose pointing in the same direction. This is especially true if there is any wind. With everything set up well and the gyro working well, it should be possible to easily make these small corrections with the rudder stick. Figuring out how much and when is the fun of learning to fly a heli
For what it is worth,
Spiro
In regards to your specific tail rotor problem…
- Check to see that the long tail rotor servo pushrod is moving in the correct direction. It should move forward when you give the transmitter right rudder.
- Check to see that the control horn on the tail rotor servo is oriented as per the instructions. They suggest a 20 degree offset for some differential throw and this will work well with your Arlton gyro. The picture in the manual illustrates this well.
- Check to see that the bell crank on the tail rotor gearbox is at 90 degrees to the tail boom with the transmitter stick (and trim) centered. If not, screw the clevis on the end of the long tail rotor servo pushrod in and out until the bell crank lines up.
- Check to see that the tail rotor blades are set close to “neutral” once you have the above steps taken care of. With the rudder stick centered and trim set to center, the square base of the blade roots should be flat and lined up with each other. This will get you very close to where you need to be, but some trim adjustments will always be necessary later.
- Check the full throw of the tail rotor servo in each direction. Once you have everything setup as above, try giving full left and right rudder on your transmitter. Ideally you want the tail rotor blades to rotate through the maximum possible deflection in each direction without binding the servo. Servo bind will occur shortly before the slider hits the tail rotor hub (~ 1mm) and near the same deflection in the opposite direction. Proper setup will most likely involve choosing different servo arm holes, tail rotor bellcrank holes, locking collar and gyro pivot mount position, or perhaps a little of everything. If your radio has adjustable servo travel of some sort or another, this process goes very quickly. Just make sure when you are all done that the tail rotor blades return to the “neutral” position when the rudder stick is centered. Also don’t forget to use tread lock on the gyro pivot mount setscrew.
- Check the gyro setup. The setscrew on the gyro pivot mount should be pointing straight up. If you have the “dual gain” gyro version, the manual recommends the high gain mode with the spider slider pin through the upper hole in the gyro spindle. Make sure the gyro paddles are angled aproximatly10 degrees and evenly with everything on the gyro centered. Again the manual has great pictures of this. Finally, the entire gyro mechanism should move very very freely. If there is any binding, grabbing, slop, or roughness in the gyro’s movement determine the cause of the problem and correct it.
It sounds to me like you simply need to get the tail rotor blades closer to their “neutral” position with the radio gear properly setup. Once you have everything straightened up just like the manual says, give it another try. You should be able to counteract any remaining drift with the rudder trim quite easily. Keep in mind that as you throttle up and down, some rudder stick input will be required on your part to keep the nose pointing in the same direction. This is especially true if there is any wind. With everything set up well and the gyro working well, it should be possible to easily make these small corrections with the rudder stick. Figuring out how much and when is the fun of learning to fly a heli
For what it is worth,
Spiro
06-12-2003 | 11:39 PM
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From: Webster, MA
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Hi again Rowesteel!
OH ... I hear ya barkin' there big dawg!!
You most likely need more tail rotor servo throw to increase the tailrotor pitch to compensate for engine torque. Heli's are pretty tricky machines, and if you don't understand how they work, you could cause you and others some serious damage/injury!
Spend some time in the construction manual, and with these clues, see if you can figure out what the problem is.
Meanwhile, there are several of us here to give you a helping hand.
Happy Studying,
Russ
OH ... I hear ya barkin' there big dawg!!
You most likely need more tail rotor servo throw to increase the tailrotor pitch to compensate for engine torque. Heli's are pretty tricky machines, and if you don't understand how they work, you could cause you and others some serious damage/injury!
Spend some time in the construction manual, and with these clues, see if you can figure out what the problem is.
Meanwhile, there are several of us here to give you a helping hand.
Happy Studying,
Russ
06-12-2003 | 11:48 PM
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From: Webster, MA
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Thanks Spiro!!
My answering questions about a glow engine and an Arlto gyro could be likened to answering questions about why the weather on the east coast of North America has been so s++++y for the last 8 months!!
Thanks for the input,
Russ
My answering questions about a glow engine and an Arlto gyro could be likened to answering questions about why the weather on the east coast of North America has been so s++++y for the last 8 months!!
Thanks for the input,
Russ
06-13-2003 | 06:44 AM
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From: Vienna, AUSTRIA
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Spiro wrote:
I came across this problem recently when replacing the TR shaft:
The manual gives detailed instructions on TR assembly, but as far as I recall, there is one thing that is not mentioned: When you insert the pushrod through the TR shaft, it does not say how far you should push it through before fixing it with a setscrew through the eyelet. Maybe the pushrod is inserted too far or not far enough?
- Check to see that the tail rotor blades are set close to “neutral” once you have the above steps taken care of. With the rudder stick centered and trim set to center, the square base of the blade roots should be flat and lined up with each other. This will get you very close to where you need to be, but some trim adjustments will always be necessary later.
The manual gives detailed instructions on TR assembly, but as far as I recall, there is one thing that is not mentioned: When you insert the pushrod through the TR shaft, it does not say how far you should push it through before fixing it with a setscrew through the eyelet. Maybe the pushrod is inserted too far or not far enough?
06-13-2003 | 08:48 AM
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From: Springfield,
IL
Welcome abord
ROWESTEEL
Welcome aboard.
The biggest problem many have is getting the Arlton Gyro to move freely. It should move by blowing at it. Keep it oiled well. IF IT IS NOT MOVING FREELY NOTHING YOU DO IS GOING TO HELP.
I suggest replacing it with a Piezo Gyro as soon as you can afford it. The heli Max sells for around $59 I think GWS makes one for around $49.
Welcome aboard.
The biggest problem many have is getting the Arlton Gyro to move freely. It should move by blowing at it. Keep it oiled well. IF IT IS NOT MOVING FREELY NOTHING YOU DO IS GOING TO HELP.
I suggest replacing it with a Piezo Gyro as soon as you can afford it. The heli Max sells for around $59 I think GWS makes one for around $49.
06-13-2003 | 02:57 PM
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From: St.Louis, MO
Thanks guys
Hey guys,
Thanks for all the input.I just got my new muffler strap in today so hopefully Sunday I'll have a chance to get out after I check out all the suggestions that have been given.Just had a new baby boy born and the wife needs help but maybe while there napping I can get out for a little while.Mini Boy,not to
worry I have been very cautious when operating my Heli.I strive to be a responsible adult in all my endeavors.Again thanks for all the advise and I will post how It's going.
ROWESTEEL
(Lanny)
Thanks for all the input.I just got my new muffler strap in today so hopefully Sunday I'll have a chance to get out after I check out all the suggestions that have been given.Just had a new baby boy born and the wife needs help but maybe while there napping I can get out for a little while.Mini Boy,not to
worry I have been very cautious when operating my Heli.I strive to be a responsible adult in all my endeavors.Again thanks for all the advise and I will post how It's going.
ROWESTEEL
(Lanny)
06-13-2003 | 05:59 PM
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From: Mesa, AZ
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Yes, 10degrees is correct. The exact angle is not all that important, but the two paddles should be pitched as close to the same amount as you can get.
Another thing to check on the gyro is its in flight angle. While in flight in a steady hover with no wind, throttle changes, ect., the gyro paddles should be straight up and down, not tilted one way or another. If they are tilted you will probably need to change the small counter weight screws in the roots of the tail rotor blades. Try longer heavier screws or shorter lighter screws. Setscrews can be used as well. The manual does not explain very well when the situation calls for heavier or lighter screws. Luckily, the gyro was always straight up and down in a hover for me, so no adjustment was needed. Obviously such tweaking is a bit down the road for you yet
Keep us posted, and I can’t recommend trying to fly the heli while your wife and newborn are napping. And miniboy, I don’t want to hear about it. hehe.
Spiro
Another thing to check on the gyro is its in flight angle. While in flight in a steady hover with no wind, throttle changes, ect., the gyro paddles should be straight up and down, not tilted one way or another. If they are tilted you will probably need to change the small counter weight screws in the roots of the tail rotor blades. Try longer heavier screws or shorter lighter screws. Setscrews can be used as well. The manual does not explain very well when the situation calls for heavier or lighter screws. Luckily, the gyro was always straight up and down in a hover for me, so no adjustment was needed. Obviously such tweaking is a bit down the road for you yet
Keep us posted, and I can’t recommend trying to fly the heli while your wife and newborn are napping.
And miniboy, I don’t want to hear about it. hehe.Spiro
06-13-2003 | 07:53 PM
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From: Mesa, AZ
Newbie
No offspring here. Just the thought of some parasite in any way limiting my helicopter operation is more than reason enough to forever toss that notion aside… As if there weren’t hundreds of other even more compelling arguments against breeding
I am just looking out for your best interests, since you have already condemned yourself. My condolences. The way I see it, the longer you can keep your “family” from becoming annoyed by your LMH, the longer you have before any hard core hassling begins.
Just my $1.50 on the subject,
Spiro
I am just looking out for your best interests, since you have already condemned yourself. My condolences. The way I see it, the longer you can keep your “family” from becoming annoyed by your LMH, the longer you have before any hard core hassling begins.
Just my $1.50 on the subject,
Spiro
