voyager_663rd

Well, isn't this a nice addition. Thank you very much.

FIRST POST. YIPPEE ! !

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

O.K., so when does all the bickering begin over here?

pauluk2w

My Feedback: (7)

by the look of things it doesn't. I noticed very few had posted here and thought i would just say hi.

Randy Brown

Mostly because most of us Canaucks spend are Canauck talk over on rccanada.ca the over here thats all.. Jas who owns rcc did a good job.. we actully I would quess have about 25% of the MAAC membership hanging there if you go buy just the Registerd ones

Great to see Marc though has add us to the USA side of things though
eh!!

Randy

NOVAflier

My Feedback: (21)

Hey Randy, how about sending me the CC25 I bought and paid $50 for? Or since you don't plan on sending it to me, why don't you refund my money?

ATTENTION: DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM THIS SELLER, HE IS A CROOK WHO RIPS PEOPLE OFF!!!

Ed Smith

P51-B wrote

Did not take long did it. Happy now?

Ed S

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Geesh, I was talking about how the AMA forum gets going. I didn't expect something like what NOVAflier put in the middle of the thread

don challis

Just wanted to say hello. I see it's started already!

RonM

Testing, testing!

Am I on??

Just checking!

Ronm

britbrat

The lights are on but nobody's home.

Jim_McIntyre

Not to be outdone, MAAC, like AMA, has a small vocal few who consider themselves the armchair overseers who "know best what Canadian modellers want". Funny enough, though they've tried for many years, they can't scrape together more than a handful of followers who do no more than take pot shots at thos who actually volunteer to further the organization.

But enough on that, MAAC is certainly smaller than AMA, but IMHO they do a bang up job promoting the hobby across our vastly dispersed population. Are they perfect? No. But, if you'r willing to invest the time, it is possible to make a difference. MAAC is small enough to still be influenced by a few dynamic members.

Population distribution results in the majority of modellers being concentrated in the Southern Ontario area. This results in a lot of the impetus for MAAC comes from the large groups in that area. This is often viewed as discriminatory and leads to silly us vs. them east vs west (which is silly because Ontario is far from the true east, coast that is). Sadly, that pattern is not limited to modelling....

And before my usual opponents chime in, yes, I am from "the centre of the universe" (Toronto area).

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

There is no arguing that point Jim.

............and them "knows bestest" types take themselves way too seriously.

I'm sure Jim agrees that having funn with toy airplanes is what it's all about.

cheers

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

You'll note the bold area within Mr McIntyre's post related to the largely held notion that the majority of members within MAAC are "concentrated" in Southern Ontario. Unfortunately, the statement is not true. The link below are some stats from 2002 and give or take a few percentages, they hold true from year to year.

http://mbz.portage.net/national/Memb...April2002.html

When totals for Southeast, Southwest, Ottawa Valley and Middle zone are compared to the total numbers, it's more like 43%, which is far from "majority". Much of the problems that seem to exist is those who seem to have a need to hold onto some mythical model aircraft power base instead of considering themselves as part of the whole. Truth is, that Alberta and BC are growing quicker in numbers than those areas and from the manitoba border west, about 39% of the membership resides, which makes both regions almost equal partners so there really is no point to try and pursue the east/west thing.

Most of the disagreements within the structure have not been about east or west, it's been about changes to the organization's priorities. I suspect, much like any organization, there are some who wish to retain status quo and will resist those who wish to make any changes.

....chuckle.....some will say, "stop complaining and get involved if you want changes".............they only mean that if you wish to maintain status quo. They are not interested in your "involvement" if you are seeking change. I speak from experience after accepting the challenge to get involved............wow.......... I have since escaped.

Jim_McIntyre

Bravo on another attempt at inside witicism in attempt to set me up for another of your "sound thrashings" Mr Sharpe.

Unfortunately, I believe our definition of "fun" may not be the same.

My definition includes the camaraderie of sharing and development of shared interests, as contrasted to your 'baiting' in an effort to exhibit your "profound insight" into Canadian modeller needs through flexing your "superior" debating skills ... with little regard to the cost to public relations for MAAC.[>:]

Jim_McIntyre

Plot it on geography, consider the difficulties imposed by geography, and you can see why it's an effective majority (like it or not). But, that wasn't my point (as you well know).

Yes, and the majority vote every year for "status quo". To put it terms you would understand "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Your radical approachs, although admittedly often hold some philosophical merit, appear to fail in light of practical application.

Escape would be one interpretation.....

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

ok, recap:

.....before o'l sharpy shows his mug in this thread, he get's a bonk from Brown, then;

Jim takes a pot shot at any who think differently than he; MAAC, like AMA, has a small vocal few who consider themselves the armchair overseers who "know best what Canadian modellers want". Funny enough, though they've tried for many years, they can't scrape together more than a handful of followers who do no more than take pot shots at thos who actually volunteer to further the organization

Jim further states:

Population distribution results in the majority of modellers being concentrated in the Southern Ontario area. This results in a lot of the impetus for MAAC comes from the large groups in that area.

Sharpy puts out some actual numbers regarding membership demographics and offers personal opinion as to what he feels causes friction within;

Most of the disagreements within the structure have not been about east or west, it's been about changes to the organization's priorities. I suspect, much like any organization, there are some who wish to retain status quo and will resist those who wish to make any changes.

Jim now has apparently taken exception to sharpy's opinion, and takes another poke;

as contrasted to your 'baiting' in an effort to exhibit your "profound insight" into Canadian modeller needs through flexing your "superior" debating skills ... with little regard to the cost to public relations for MAAC

followed by some substance mixed in the following bits;

"Plot it on geography, consider the difficulties imposed by geography, and you can see why it's an effective majority (like it or not). But, that wasn't my point (as you well know).

Yes, and the majority vote every year for "status quo". To put it terms you would understand "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Your radical approachs, although admittedly often hold some philosophical merit, appear to fail in light of practical application."

Without the personal pokes and unsubstantiated "radical approach" junk, we may have some grounds for a discussion here;

How about, "effective majority"?

not sure I get that, but the suggestion is that because of a 43% of members reside in one geographical region, their lead should be followed? Again, I believe this attitude divides the modelling community as no matter where I have flown, the vast majority of modellers are bound by the hobby, not the geography. Perhaps the term should be "effective political majority" as I think that there is likely a higher percentage of members from that area that are motivated about this political stuff. Geography is a problem, but the advent of cyberland is making it easier.

Regardless, I have to agree with allowing the majority to decide if "status quo" is the future. I personally believe "status quo" is maintained through apathy of the majority and that open debate of political issues and getting more information to the true majority is the way to eventually motivate the silent majority to effect some change. The likely changes to proxy voting at the AGM may be the ultimate way of getting things done. A few very motivated ZD's could mass enough proxies to swing issues without having to worry about the same 7 or 8 ZD's dictating how issues will turn out. Time will tell.

...........by the way, I'm curious, as anyone else reading here may be, as to what my "radical" ideas were/are? I've lost track of what ideas of mine were "radical" and which were simply "lunacy" ........ [sm=bananahead.gif]

besides, the radical ideas are the funnest to debate.

pipercubflyer

Marc. your right.............. the two sides keep finding each other. Weird eh? Us and them.... but who is the stalker and who is the stalkee hee hee

As my email said yesterday, the flying was great way out here.

Jim_McIntyre

You are fully aware of our previous conversations on the very same subject on "other" sites, if you truly want to discuss this matter, lets not pretend those conversations never happened.

Wrong. First, you are making many assumptions that are most likely untrue. It is not a simple question of the 43% in perfect agreement, leading the 53% geographically dispersed lining up on the opposite side of the fence. This is an oversimplification of the matter. What I was alluding to, is simply a fact that, when a larger number are focused in an area that imposes fewer geographical boundaries, they tend to meet more often, and establish common grounds for effecting their approachs. I'm not making moral or philosophical judgements, simply stating a fact, please refrain from placing a spin on this simple fact.

"status quo" is a poor definition. I think you need to enlighten us as to your cause. Sticking my neck out, I believe (from our previous conversations) you're referrring to MAAC's support (especially financially) of competition. I would like to remind you that MAAC was established "promote competition". In this light, "status quo" to me, means doing what the organization was established to do. I continue to fail to comprehend your issue with this.....

And the quickest way to turn people off of an organization.[>:]

[/quote]

Hughes500E

My Feedback: (16)

Ahh man, this is embarrassing [:'(]

What's it going to take for you to shut the hell up buddy!

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

Competition or no competition or less competition support. Your reply that MAAC was established to support competition, doesn't mean things stay the same or that competition is a high priority. It has evolved that MAAC is THE source for insurance for any responsible modeler. That does not imply that we all support competition.

I'm just stating a fact. What MAAC was established for has no bearing on what purpose it serves many decades later.

Discussion is healthy. Opinions should be welcome. Insults should be left at home.

At least here some differences can occur without "locking". Each forum serves a purpose. Let it!

kenair

My Feedback: (10)

Jaaaayyyyyyyyyyyysssssssooooooooooooooon - SE zone becons, time to jump, time to ban Sharpe, lock this thread, delete all posts, call in the maac secret poliz.

other maac stuff at [link]http://canadianelectricflight.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=7[/link]

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phattires

do not post any replies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

That does make your position clearer because it wasn't that clear initially. Actually, no assumptions should be made based on simple numbers or percentages.........or geography. Your theory is an assumption because you don't have data on geographical regions like mine where we are spread 1000's of kms. In fact, you would be surprized at how many times and how motivated members here are if they have common interest. Within our region, we likely hold more influence with the general public than a densly populated area simply because we are more visible and more easily accessible to the average non-modeller. ie: our club carries around 30-40 members yearly from a population base of around 15000. Compared to a club of a 100+ within an urban area of 500,000. Who would actually be more visible of the two? Exporsure to higher percentages is easier here because when an event goes on, the whole area is aware of it, because the only papers in town cover it, the only radio stations in town cover it etc. Our main yearly event, a float fly, takes place right in the middle of the city?

The same holds true for regional events. The city of Gimli, north of winnipeg, sponsored the 1st annual regional fun fly last year, with tremendous support, both in money and location. As a result, we have a complete new club that has started in that town and the event looks to get bigger and bigger.

IMO, the assumption that highly populated areas within Canada have a better chance to promote the hobby. I disagree and certainly, those areas should not hold any more .....or less...influence than any region. Those areas with less dense population base should, at the very least, definately should not be marginalized.

"Yeah, Sharpe, the anti-comp guy mantra". Why do you need to go there again Jim?

Yep, I don't like the FAI travel fund and tried to put the brakes on some of the World Scale 2002 spending when on the board, but that does not make me "anti" anything. My "cause" since day one was to try and focus on the overall membership and stick to general issues and allow the specialty folks look after themselves. "Promoting" competition is fine, but not for only a small minority and not on the backs of the rest who have no interest in the competition. Money could be better spent elsewhere........as our current budget situation shows. Make all your members happy and make the organization appeal to more new members, which will produce more who may wish to investigate competition. Competitors like yourself are highly motivated and don't require special attention to promote your interest.

......I know, I know, the history lessons on the beginnins of MAAC.........but as 4-60 writes, the organization has changed and denying it is only detrimental in the long run. Thanks to the few that started the association, they have their rightful place in the hall of fame, time to move on.

Jim_McIntyre

Never assume.... Some stats from my geographical (urban) area.
Clubs within 15 minute drive; Ajax, Seaton, Whitby, Toronto, Toronto Heli, Aurora, Pickering all averaging just under 100 members, "all this from an urban area of 500,000". What's more, I meet many of these very people at meets several hundred kms away (Kitchener, Chatham, Tillsonburg, Leamington etc.), and that's just my little urban centre just outside the NE edge of the 4.5million population of Toronto.

Whatever.... I tire of the endless banter. Enjoy your MAAC bashing at all our expense[>:]...
I'm off to the workshop to safety my fleet for the season opener and plan my contest schedule for this summer ... I hear there's a new scale contest up north.[8D]

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

Jim, that'st still over 70,000 population per club without including the 1.4 million next door (essentially in the same area). My opinion of influence within the communities in smaller centres still stands. Besides, All members who travel to regional events, be they in Toronto or BC or Sask..........'meet many of these very people at meets several hundred kms away'........ All have to come from a minimun of hundreds of kms away. Regardless, modelers, ALL modelers, from All regions of Canada are a motivated bunch and should not be marginalized (along with their ideas) because of geography. [/quote]

...... translated, he tires of me not agreeing with him and now reverts to a personal shot resulting from frustration.

Jim, a hint; It really doesn't help your position when you revert to making things personal when faced with ideas that differ.

Jim, Good luck. Keep the wheels on the bottom side when landing.