Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > M.A.A.C.
Reload this Page >

NATS Profits?

Notices
M.A.A.C. Discuss Model Aeronautics Association of Canada policies, decisions & any other MAAC related topics here.

NATS Profits?

Old 06-09-2005, 08:34 PM
  #1  
Sharpy01
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (12)
 
Sharpy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default NATS Profits?

Here's a thorny one:

If the reports are true, and the MAAC/SW Zone Chatam NATS are positioned to make a profit. Where should the profit go?

When the MAAC/SW Zone World scale event went into the red by a steep margin, MAAC, and thus the membership, picked up the losses.

Does it stand to reason that a National/International sponsored MAAC event that turns a profit go back to the membership? Or at least a split profit agreement between MAAC and hosting clubs? Or........

Using last years FAI glider event in Alta as an example, a modest profit was realized. I may be corrected, but I believe some of the profit went back to the membership.

I'll tell you right now, there is no set policy so it's a great one for debate.

Personally, if the members money is being risked and put up when there are losses, they should certainly be entitled to share in any profits.

What are your thoughts?

Old 06-10-2005, 07:24 AM
  #2  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

MAAC is an organization tasked with promoting the hobby, not to engage in profit making ventures.

If an event makes a profit, great. If funding came from MAAC, and sweat equity from local clubs, both should profit.

If an event loses money (<sarcasm>gee, how could a promotion actually cost money?</sarcasm>), the hobby (and all us participants) still win as MAAC has accomplished one of it's tasks.

If an event loses a 'lot' of money, some lessons may be learned.
Old 06-10-2005, 01:16 PM
  #3  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?


ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

If an event loses a 'lot' of money, some lessons may be learned.

Sure hope so.
Old 06-11-2005, 03:17 AM
  #4  
4*60
My Feedback: (41)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Shuswap, BC,
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

quote: If an event makes a profit, great. If funding came from MAAC, and sweat equity from local clubs, both should profit.


Absolutely
Old 06-13-2005, 09:58 AM
  #5  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?


ORIGINAL: 4*60

quote: If an event makes a profit, great. If funding came from MAAC, and sweat equity from local clubs, both should profit.


Absolutely

Agreed, but in what ratio?
Old 06-13-2005, 12:29 PM
  #6  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

ORIGINAL: britbrat
Agreed, but in what ratio?
I think it would be safest to leave this as a negotiable since different types of events require variable effort, and both organizers and MAAC should not be held to some catch-all ruling. IOW, do we really have to legislate everything?
Old 06-13-2005, 05:16 PM
  #7  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?


ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

ORIGINAL: britbrat
Agreed, but in what ratio?
I think it would be safest to leave this as a negotiable since different types of events require variable effort, and both organizers and MAAC should not be held to some catch-all ruling. IOW, do we really have to legislate everything?
Yes, where other people's (members') money is involved. It could be negotiable, but the limits of negotiability, and accountability for the negotiated deal must be firmly established.
Old 06-13-2005, 06:23 PM
  #8  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

ORIGINAL: britbrat
Yes, where other people's (members') money is involved. It could be negotiable, but the limits of negotiability, and accountability for the negotiated deal must be firmly established.
I would think that MAAC money spend is ultimately at the discretion of the people we elect to represent our interests....
Old 06-13-2005, 07:00 PM
  #9  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

Hmmmm. Trust us with your money -- we know what we are doing & we know what you want. I might agree with you (maybe), but I'm not at all sure how many others would agree. I guess we'll find out.
Old 06-13-2005, 07:27 PM
  #10  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre
I would think that MAAC money spend is ultimately at the discretion of the people we elect to represent our interests....
The alternative is to call for a general vote on all expenditures .... what do you think that would cost.

It's easy to criticise, I would simply ask that you provide a viable alternative when criticising. This simple compromise should keep us on the friendly side of conversations.....
Old 06-14-2005, 08:39 AM
  #11  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?




ORIGINAL: britbrat

Yes, where other people's (members') money is involved. It could be negotiable, but the limits of negotiability, and accountability for the negotiated deal must be firmly established.
I thought that I did make a suggestion --- put boundaries on the limits of negotiation.

Additionally, since the issue of distribution of profits rarely comes up, it would not be impractical to have the general membership approve the negotiated distribution of such profits.
Old 06-15-2005, 06:54 AM
  #12  
kenair
My Feedback: (10)
 
kenair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Posts: 878
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

Could any of these event be held if there was no MAAK, therefore it is through general membership dollars that provide the intangible means to host such an event. One would think tt would only be common sense for the MAAK board and the event organizers to have an partnership agreement of sharing profits and losses.

Could one expect the general membership to provide the seed money, the mechanisim to host such an event and assume the debt if any and then not share in the profits in some way.

I would also think it would behove the special interests groups to return some of the event profit to the general organization,otherwise to keep the profits for their only special interest group would give the appearance of having only their own specific interests at heart wheicjh we know is not the case.
Old 06-15-2005, 02:18 PM
  #13  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

Just for discussion, here are some of my thoughts on the possible distribution of profits from MAAC-sponsored major events.

If the distribution were to be based on a fixed formula, that formula should be directly approved by the membership before the first such distribution takes place. Thereafter, all future distributions would simply follow the formula.

In the case of a negotiated distribution, and since the generation of profits is infrequent, it would not be burdensome for the general membership to review the expenditure history and specifically approve or reject the distribution at the AGM, as part of the annual budgetary review and approval process.

If the proposed distribution failed to gain approval, the full amount of the profits should remain with MAAC itself.

I'm not sure, but it may be worthwhile to have the end-use of MAAC's portion of the profits pre-determined & approved as part of the same process.
Old 06-15-2005, 03:45 PM
  #14  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

Guys .... MAAC is not a for-profit organization....

MAAC is organized to promote the hobby while providing a central communication vehicle.

MAAC is also primarily a volunteer organization. If events were run by paid employees, you may have a better case on your hands.

MAAC does not invest money in hopes of turning a profit, it spends our money to benefit the hobby as a whole, an expensed service.

The following issues arise from your proposals:

Given that different events require different levels of effort, and money to run;

A one size fits all solution will not work, it will result in haves and have-nots. Competitions by nature cost more to run than simple funflies. Simply put, complexity costs.

Providing different rules for different events can only lead to bickering.

I just don't see a viable solution to this problem. []
Old 06-16-2005, 12:25 PM
  #15  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?


ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

Guys .... MAAC is not a for-profit organization....


A one size fits all solution will not work, it will result in haves and have-nots. Competitions by nature cost more to run than simple funflies. Simply put, complexity costs.

Providing different rules for different events can only lead to bickering.

I just don't see a viable solution to this problem. []
Jim, you were the one who suggested that a negotiated settlement was a possible solution to the distribution of profits (that we're not supposed to make). You also suggested letting the elected reps make the decision -- which is a "one size fits all" solution.

What are you actually suggesting that MAAC do with the money?
Old 06-16-2005, 12:47 PM
  #16  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

Since when are negotiated settlements equivalent to a "one size fits all" solution?[sm=confused.gif]

Pardon me but, I'm confused. My suggestion was that the exec evaluate these individually, considering the wide range of effort involved in the several disciplines.

I will further suggest that MAAC might consider providing a forgiveable amount and consider it an expensed promotion... one of their mandates. In my mind, this would make more sense than the catch-all bucket that was given to ZD's to spend at their own discretion....
Old 06-16-2005, 02:03 PM
  #17  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

OK, there's some confusion here. I was referring to letting MAAC make the distribution as a "one size fits all', not the negotiated settlement. However, if MAAC does such distributions on an individual basis, I would still like to see bounding conditions that the membership approves.

Does your "forgiveable amount" apply to profitable ventures, or to money-losing ventures, or both? If it applies to profitable ventures, would the forgivable amount be the portion that the host receives -- perhaps in lieu of profit shares?
Old 06-16-2005, 02:32 PM
  #18  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

I don't think I can agree to a "one size fits all" distribution, that's basically what we had with the Zone funding, and I don't think that worked very well. A fair distribution of money but, perhaps inequitable use.[sm=confused.gif]

I'm not a marketing guru so I'll spare you my cut on what I think would work but, I would think that a successful track record could be one criteria for a larger promotions budget..... again, I not a statistical analyst or an efficiency expert so I'll spare you my cut on how this would be measured.
Old 06-16-2005, 03:00 PM
  #19  
Sharpy01
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (12)
 
Sharpy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: NATS Profits?

Personally, I think almost all events should be able to stand on their own two feet and look only to MAAC to keep the insurance there.

Sponsors are out there and everywhere if the effort is put in. A good example;

http://mbz.portage.net/cgi-bin/yabb/...num=1115817256

Before anyone jumps, I realize that some competition events may require require a few bucks to get started, but it shouldn't be automatic and if the event comes to MAAC members, asking them to back possible losses, then the organizers better be prepared to share in any profits.

I don't think it has to be complicated. For example purposes only, 50/50 split with organizers distributing their half as they see fit and MAAC dumping their portion into a slush fund to use for backing the next similar event.
Old 08-02-2005, 02:03 PM
  #20  
Jabba
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Windsor, ON, CANADA
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

Well Sharpy ---- instead of talking why not do something...

STAND UP and say you will run the NEXT NATS.... you sound like you know everythink.... It should be a WIZZZ for a person like you to do this job.

COME on show us you can do it.

Do something good for a change....

All in favour of Sharpy running the NATS say YES!!!

I sure would like to see this happen.
Old 08-02-2005, 02:16 PM
  #21  
Sharpy01
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (12)
 
Sharpy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: NATS Profits?

.......one problem;

I don't really care about the NATS.

It's about the members Money, Mr Palmer Johnson....................., where it goes, how it's spent and being accountable to the membership when you do spend their money. That's it.

All events are potentially good events and I hope all do well, but if the members money is being used, then accountability is essential.

...............or are you simply trying (quite poorly) to discredit differing opinion.............again? [X(]

Old 08-02-2005, 09:44 PM
  #22  
jhelps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Headingley, MB, CANADA
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?

Is MAAC incorporated? (federal or provincial?).

JH
Old 08-08-2005, 10:32 AM
  #23  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: NATS Profits?


ORIGINAL: Jabba

Well Sharpy ---- instead of talking why not do something...

STAND UP and say you will run the NEXT NATS.... you sound like you know everythink.... It should be a WIZZZ for a person like you to do this job.

COME on show us you can do it.

Do something good for a change....

All in favour of Sharpy running the NATS say YES!!!

I sure would like to see this happen.

I'd certainly be in favour of provocative and antagonistic crap like that dissappearing when a serious discussion is in progress.
Old 08-08-2005, 02:00 PM
  #24  
Sharpy01
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (12)
 
Sharpy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: NATS Profits?

.......he did.

a wee hit an run "stickthowinG" [8D]

(Maybe he realized how stupid he was making himself look as these discussion were not heading in that direction when he pooped by.)

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.