fliers1

Thanks Jim. I love this hobby/sport too much to just sit by and let it slip away. I was getting along very well with the last AMA Executive Director, Don Koranda, but I'm pretty sure that he ran up against the same EC brick wall that I did, which is probably the main reason he left.

But as they say - Where there is a will, there is a way.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
-- Albert Einstein

Take care,
CCR

Jim_McIntyre

Speaking of ways to help put the hobby.... Clarence is the real deal. Several years ago he opened my eyes to a whole new method of teaching students, much more effective than the traditional method. I was a skeptic, you probably will be too but, I'm here to say it works, and works well. If you're an Instructor, you owe it to yourself to check it out.

Clarence, do you still have your website with your technique documented? Can you post a link?

fliers1

Jim,
Sorry to say that the original website is no more, but I still have the page describing my technique.
http://www.amadistrictii.org/lorcf/RT.htm

Locally, I have had a couple of converts, but the flying activity is so sparce around here (6 very good flying fields) that I can't find many fliers let alone any instructors wishing to learn a much more pleasant way to teach. I have sent Linda Patrick emails asking how I can help on your side of the border. Linda tried to help by passing the word, but not too many showed any interest. At least she tried. BTW, I made a futile attempt to get her interested, but she said she had no plans whatsoever in learning to fly. Oh well.

Funny thing, I get two different perspectives of how well the hobby/sport is going...that of the beginner and RC industry and that of the veteran flier.

britbrat

That is very interesting. My chief flying activity is teaching -- to the point that I don't get much air time of my own. Any technique that speeds up the process is not only valuable to the student, it would be hugely valuable to the instructors as well.

I assume from the description that your technique eliminates the need for the buddy-box system. Do you use a buddy-box at all?


This thread is generating very usefull information.[sm=thumbup.gif]

fliers1

I used a buddy-box for around 8 years many moons ago and due to the stress factor, I figured that there had to be an easier way to teach. To answer your question, no, I don't ever use a buddy-box anymore. OK, I did use the box a few years ago when I trained two school teachers how to fly at the same time. What I was doing was experimenting teaching the beginner how to become an instructor at the same time he was learning how to fly. It seemed to be working out OK until one teacher decided that he didn't want to take lessons anymore. I'd like to try it again sometime.

I've trained people or should I say, "retrained" people who had previously been trained by someone using the buddy-box. What I mean is, although they had "soloed" the new flier still had trouble flying and tended to rekit sometimes on a regular basis. They were told that it's part of the learning process and eventually they would get better and the rekitting process would decrease in time.

What happens when instructors train with the buddy-box, they cannot monitor what the student's fingers are doing and beginners tend to bang the sticks around, even after soloing. Since they are reasonably successful flying on their own after soloing, they think that their "mixing a batter" is the correct way to fly.

In a nut shell, the "secret" to teaching using my technique (with or without a buddy-cord attached) is to right from the get-go tell the student "DO NOT MOVE THE STICKS AT ALL!!!!" and to let the trainer fly on its own. In a way, I'm sort of reluctant to let the cat out of the bag in revealing my secret (just kidding) but to me, it seems so darn easy to teach this way. If you know the student follows your direction by inessense being a bump on a long holding the tx, you can walk away or even have the student turn his back to the flight line while the plane is in the air. Remember Jim? lol Of course, the instructor must of a few hours of using this method to be so confident to do this. Hopefully, some day the AMA, MAAC and/or the RC aeromodeling industry calls on me to help them out in some way or fashion. Imagine if many other instructors could find teaching so much fun they would rather teach then fly? Could happen.

Take care,
CCR

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

....again, Richard........seeing as you are silly enough to hang around here.

Why can't we, with Clarence's blessing of course, present his method on MAAC's website done up nice and pretty complete with pictures, etc. Members are always looking for this type of info on our website................ Why not an instructional page showcasing his method?

Whatcha think.........and no lawyering BS about liability yada, yada. We are not talking about endorsing anything as the "only" way, but offering options. You could even offer up something related to buddy-box's as I don't believe we have anything like that on there either? Even an insurance company would applaud the effort to display "safe" methods of learning as opposed to what most of us did ..............and were lucky enough not to kill anyone.


Marc

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Funny, thats how I teach people to fly pattern My theory is the less I fly the plane the better as it usually knows what its doing much better than I do

fliers1

No problem, glad to help anyway I can. You can show this to anyone, but I don't know if anyone saw this link before, but here it is again: http://www.amadistrictii.org/column/...9%20Column.pdf

Testimonial of sorts:
pcinc
Status: New Heliman

Registered: May 2005
Location: Western MA Buddy Boxes - Revisited
I have to chime in and tell you al of my experience on this subject. First a little bit about the RC hobby and myself. I have always had an eye for RC Heli’s but never had any exposure to the hobby. Last July I bought a used Raptor 50 and met with an experienced Heli guy at the local field to check it over for me. He set it up, checked it over, then started to teach me to fly it. I was doing Ok until I tried hovering in my backyard and crashed it pretty good. It was way too tight an area for someone as new as me to be flying in. After this, it was suggested to me to pick up a trainer lane and learn to fly it and it would help in learning to fly the Heli. I got an already set up complete LT 40 Kadet. I started on the Buddy Box and could fly around at a fairly high altitude, but could not take off or land. This spring was a continuation of that. Between my work schedule and the wet spring we had here I didn’t get as much box time in as I would like to have. Now it’s been close to a year and I can’t fly on my own at this point. I have had a couple of different instructors on the box but never seemed to progress to the point I hoped to be at. I read a post from fliers1 (Clarence Ragland) here on RR stating that he could teach anybody to hover in a couple of hours. I PM’ed him and after a couple of exchanges Clarence stated he could not only teach me to hover but also fly on my own in 2 days. Talk about skeptical? I made arraignments and met up with Clarence to take him up on his theory. First day, the wind was blowing 20-25 mph and I figured the day to be lost. Not Clarence. He got me up in the air and started on taking off and landing approaches in the wind. We did this for a while then switched over to the Heli. First flight out, I’m a nervous wreck. My knees were knocking and the sweat was just pouring. I couldn’t even think about controlling the right stick. We ran a tank of fuel with me trying to hold a steady altitude and the nose straight ahead while Clarence controlled the right stick completely. The next thankful went a little better. I managed to be able to think about the right stick and control things somewhat with Clarence assisting when I got things out of whack. None of the flying with the Kadet or the Raptor was on the Buddy Box at all. I used my radio with my thumbs on the top of the sticks (something totally new to me) and Clarence reached under my thumbs and controlled the stick when needed (a technique Clarence calls the “Ragland Technique�). He was in continuous communication with me every minute I was in the air. This gave me a positive feel of how much stick movement was required for each move. At the end of the first day, I was further along in my flying than I have ever been in the last 10 months. I still had doubts about hovering and flying on my own by the end of the 2nd day so I extended my check out one at the hotel I was staying at more day.
Day 2, I started off with the Heli and hovered 2 tanks of fuel with minimal assistance on the second thankful. We switched back to the Kadet and did take off and landings one after another. The wind was not blowing as hard as the day before, but kept changing the direction it blew across the field. Clarence worked with me on all the different areas of flying effected by the changing winds. We worked on throttle control, upwind legs, down wind legs, landing approaches and take offs. At this point I was getting mentally overloaded and we took about a 2 hour break. I cooled down, re hydrated and freshened up back at the room then had a little lunch. I met Clarence back at the field and started right in on the Heli. It all started to come together. I hovered a couple of tankfulls with minimal assistance. I switched back over to the Kadet and did take off and landings one after another. He even had be do a dead stick when he didn’t believe me when I told him the crazy beeping was telling me I’m about to run out of fuel. Spent the rest of the afternoon practicing take offs, landings from both directions and figure eights crossing at midfield. Fired up the Heli one more time and hovered the entire tank without assistance. I was able to control it, fairly stable, and recognize and make corrections when needed. Mission accomplished! I was comfortable with all aspects of flying the Kadet and hovering the Raptor. I cancelled the 3rd night and went home.
Having been through both the Buddy Box and Clarence’s method, I have to say the “Ragland Technique� is far more effective. I would recommend getting hooked up with Clarence or anybody that teaches by this method to anyone that wants to learn how to fly either planes or Heli’s. It’s very effective with both. Since my instructional time with Clarence I have flown at my field a couple of times. I hooked back up to the Buddy Box the first time up to make sure I could get oriented at my field and be able to pick out my marks for landing. Next time out I completely went Solo. I flew 6 full tank of fuel all on my own. Then I fired up the Raptor and hovered 2 more tanks of fuel completely on my own. Everyone was impressed with what I had accomplished in 2 days. I even got a comment from a member that used to fly heli’s on how steady I was able to hover in place.
Sorry for such a long post, but I just had to share my experience with everyone. I’m not trying to knock the Buddy Box system at all here. After this experience I have to say it’s not the most effective way to learn. I have seen a number of folks at my field learning on Buddy Boxes and they are still on them.
Drop Clarence a note if you want to learn to fly (even in the wind). His e-mail is [email protected]
Here is a link to an AMA newsletter about Clarence teaching people that never touched a radio before.
http://www.amadistrictii.org/column...4-09 Column.pdf
Peter, now flying on my own!!!!!


Take care,
CCR

gingertoad

I will ignore the aspirations Marc casts upon my motives for keeping informed on this site. I had more altruistic reasons than silliness - however:

I have seen information of this teaching technique before, and had an email interchange with the gentleman myself - quite positive.

This is something that should be referred to the appropriate committee, which is the beginner committee. Details are in the front of the magazine. I realize that this involves another step, and a certain amount of red tape, but I do not see myself as the clearing house for all new initiatives. MAAC has a full committee structure. It is there for a reason, that being to follow it.

If Clarence takes that route, supported by a bevy of Canadians who are familiar with the teaching method, something can likely be done.

Richard Barlow

Jim_McIntyre

This is your chance Marc, prove you're here for more than the entertainment value alone.... spearhead this idea, Richard has laid the groundwork for you .... heck, I'll even attach my name as a supporter and risk the side effects of that association.

britbrat

For what it's worth Marc, I support the idea. Go for it.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

Yeah, but that is the only reason I'm here...............

britbrat

It could be a proposal to evaluate the technique by a number of club CFI's. I would like to evaluate it myself.

---time passes ----

OK Folks -- I just had a chat with Richard Barlow, & I have agreed to coordinate a proposal submission to MACC for evaluating the Ragland Technique. I am proposing that several CFI's adopt this method in the comming season for evaluation purposes. At the end of the season we will submit a joint report to MAAC outlining our findings. MAAC can then proceed appropriately.

I need volunteer CFI's --- PM me if you are interested.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

Before we get carried away. We really need to put together a PDF with some good quality photos mingled with the text, showing suggested position and close-ups of the finger position etc. Create a document that is easy to visualize and can be sent complete to clubs. (and ultimately put on the MAAC website) If you'all are patient, I can put something together and submit it to Clarence for his approval.

Due to our size and geographics, our intake of new members is limited, but I can suggest it at our club.

Clarence, are there any good images around displaying the mechanics of it? If not, I can work on preparing images, send them to you to make sure I've got it correct prior to any distribution. ..............any instructional video around?

Marc

britbrat

OK, thanks Marc -- it will obviously have to be a team effort.

fliers1

Marc,

I made a demo video a few years ago. One of the big distributors asked me to make a demo video so if they thought it worthwhile they would do it on a professional basis. Once I made the video and sent it to them, they acted like they didn't have any idea what I was taking about. I still have a couple copies. If you like, I can send a copy to anyone interested.

AMA did have a picture of me teaching a 12 year old, but at least on my computer the pic doesn't show up anymore. http://modelaircraft.org/1098_5.asp

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

I'll PM you about the video.