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I'm sick of MAAC

Old 12-03-2005, 09:54 AM
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sam369
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Default I'm sick of MAAC

After reading the 15 pages of crap on RC CANADA on the Nats, I've had enough, I'm giving up my maac membership.

Does any notice that one area of interest in MAAC that causes all the problems, whether it's been the Brandon Nats, Aero Club of Canada membership fees fight, World Scale 2002, and now the MAAC Nats 2006, even the maac glider guy world champ guy tried to dump Kieth Morrison as cd before the World glider champs in Alberta, the pattern guys *****.ng about their funding, what a bunch of a-holes in this group.

Do we ever hear any problems from the fun flyers.

I'm gone.
Cliff.


Old 12-03-2005, 10:54 AM
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ISGUNN
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

Hay Cliff.I hear your frustration but it's not a reason to quit MAAC.Instead,ignore the jerks who show the disrespect of the general populac of MAAC.Don't let them ruin your fun.
Ian Gunn
MAAC25307
Old 12-03-2005, 11:01 AM
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jhelps
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

I'm with Ian.

Recognize that your values are higher than a small but vocal minority and stick around. I think a number of folks are going to be seen for what they truely are. I would give the MAAC executive (a lot of new members on it this year) time to sort stuff out.

Jeff

PS It's up to 20 pages, still mostly crap (except for my gems of course). but some more balanced comments are coming out now.

Old 12-03-2005, 09:47 PM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC


ORIGINAL: jhelps
PS It's up to 20 pages, still mostly crap (except for my gems of course).
Hey!

Cliff,
The situation you are seeing in the now 23 page thread on RCC has nothing to do with the Nats, the FAI or model competition in general.

The MAAC board and Executive are currently the most cohesive and centred that I have seen in a very long time. They are working towards a greater level of accountability and are standing their ground when faced with oposition. Recent controvercial decisions have seen 10-1 and 12-1 decisions ... there is a STRONG majority in control at the moment.
Old 12-03-2005, 11:23 PM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

For what it's worth Sam, the percentage that believe the toy airplane flying they do is somehow more important that what everyone does is very small.

The battle you see on RCC is the culmination of years of an even smaller percentage who went beyond ego and seem to have fallen into the "we are entitled to our entitlements" ............and got nasty when anyone questioned their "entitlements". It would appear that very small core of individuals have finally burned enough bridges that even past close associates are now calling for their resignations. It would appear they are done. (Perhaps they have a bright future in the liberal party?)

Assuming that mess continues to it's apparent conclusion, as Keith pointed out, MAAC will have a very unified board that can get on with doing their job and finally put this spite-motivated, very distracting BS behind them and get on with important issues that affect all of us.
Old 12-04-2005, 12:36 AM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

.....hey, now what Ken?

I do believe we have been bounced out of the top 3 most hated list?

It's hard to stay at the top.

lol


Old 12-04-2005, 01:25 AM
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jhelps
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

But it still begs the question ...

WHAT were they thinking???

It's almost as if they pulled a GW.

Going against the will of the majority and expecting to be greeted as hero's slaying the big bad MAAC BOD.

Now that they've been handed their heads on a plate I wonder if they have an exit strategy?

Jeff



Old 12-04-2005, 02:09 AM
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Morison
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

Don't drink the Kool-Aid ...
Old 12-04-2005, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

Well Cliff, there are a few members in MAAC with large ego's that think they know the end all and be all to any thing which includes maac, it's called ARROGANCE.

Thesetypes are always in denial, it's never about their attitudes about maac.


Keep flying, forget about the maac bulls..t as we did and watch another arrogant group in maac implode.
Old 12-04-2005, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

It would appear the process has begun to end most of this with a vote off the island.

One can only imagine that the laundry that has been aired is only a small percentage of the difficulties that existed within that zone.

Hopefully, the conclusion will come quickly.

.....heck, I may even get more building done.

ORIGINAL: RCC

I contacted the MAAC office on Friday. Inquiring on the proceedure to remove
our current ZD and "his" assistant.

As Keith stated earlier, it requires a petition. Unfortunately, I will be
away from home for the next 2 weeks and won't be able to get the ball
rolling next week but I intend to continue on this path when I return.

Normally, I absolutely despise this political HS and avoid these threads.
But it seems our current ZD does not have the members in mind with his
actions, just his ego.

He has made every member of SW Ontario look like a*ses and played the
Chatham Club for fools.

Chris Rebidoux
---------

Don't forget there are 3 individuals who are involved here...
One of them being a former ZD.



Last edited by 50%300SFlyer on Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:48 am; edited
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Old 12-04-2005, 12:04 PM
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Ed Smith
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

After reading the 15 pages of crap on RC CANADA on the Nats, I've had enough, I'm giving up my maac membership.
I would suggest that it is short sighted to allow the distasteful actions of about three people to cause you to make this decision. MAAC is a quality organization that has served us very well for over fifty years. I hope you noticed that apart from one individual, (surprise, surprise,) the MAAC board stayed away from that whole discussion. The MAAC board will deal with any issue in an honest and business like manner.

Ed S
Old 12-04-2005, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

Actually, 2 MAAC board members participated. One more than the other. It provided some very much needed insight to readers. In spite of your distaste for that thread, it was of huge importance to the organization. Without it, most of the membership would likely still be in the dark. The thread provided a very much needed catalyst, hopefully for some permanent change within the board. Surely, you can't argue the benefit of having all 13 directors working torgether.............not necessarily agreeing on everything, but working within the established rules and not creating all kinds grief out of spite when somebody doesn't get their way?

We should applaud Jean for the balls to enter into that discussion to set the record straight and provide enough information to get the members to ask some tough questions and sift through the BS.

Old 12-04-2005, 01:56 PM
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Morison
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

Actually 4 MAAC board members participated.
Richard, Jean, Kevin and Chuck - two of them are on the executive.
Old 12-04-2005, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

I stand corrected.
Old 12-11-2005, 11:48 PM
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r/cnerd
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

Well I hate MAAC because they are stuck in the past. I don't need some silly newsletter in the mail, and it's irrelevent to me anyway since I don't care that much about what a bunch of other flyers did over the last while. It's stupid that guys flying big gas ships are classed the same as park flyers. It's also stupid that there is no coverage for park flying even when it is legal. People might say that it would be too expensive to insure park flyers due to the risk but if there was a specific definition of what could be flown where, a good compromise could be reached. "But people will just break the rules" you may say...but if they were found to have broken the rules than they could deny coverage...simple. For example rules could allow flight of planes less than 15 oz., 7 cell or 2s lipo maximum, and require a rubber spinner. Combined with updated safety rules and allowance to fly wherever it is legal, a whole new generation of MAAC members could be created. oh yeah ...the membership needs to be like $25 or something!!

When a newbie plonks down his hard earned 150$ for a firebird or something there's just no way he's going to buy a $100 membership to some club. This means he doesn't get help. This means he's likely to find the hobby too challenging and drop out....

THe days of big gas planes being the only option are done. (of course they are great too, just less beginner friendly+cheap)
Old 12-12-2005, 08:19 AM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
Well I hate MAAC because they are stuck in the past.
We all judge from our own perspective.... I find the latest attention to electric, indoor, turbine etc. to be rather forward thinking...

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
I don't need some silly newsletter in the mail, and it's irrelevent to me anyway since I don't care that much about what a bunch of other flyers did over the last while.
I find the magazine a good source of contacts and information that help me plan my year. Which events look interesting, are reasonable distance and schedule etc. I'm also interested in what new developments or techniques are being developed/tried. It's amazing how many good people I've met simply because I discovered a common interest through the magazine.... and now online.

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
It's stupid that guys flying big gas ships are classed the same as park flyers.
In fact, they're not. If you take the time to read MAAC's safety rules, you'll find specific requirements for many disciplines from lanyard requirements for line control to kill switches for gassers....

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
It's also stupid that there is no coverage for park flying even when it is legal.
You'l find there is coverage provided you fly from a sanctioned location. The only time it's illegal is when you fly from prperty without permission.... and that's not MAAC's fault.

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
... For example rules could allow flight of planes less than 15 oz., 7 cell or 2s lipo maximum, and require a rubber spinner.
Many have struggled with this .. your restrictions, with a light wing loading could result in a relatively safe aircraft. Shave some wing are and I could build guided anti-personnel missle with the same requirements. It's just not that simple.

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
Combined with updated safety rules and allowance to fly wherever it is legal, a whole new generation of MAAC members could be created. oh yeah
There's nothing stopping you from making a proposal.

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
...the membership needs to be like $25 or something!!
Ok, and how do you propose to pay for the rest of MAAC's expenses. I assume you feel that because you don't make use of the services at this point in your life, others don't have need of them?

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
When a newbie plonks down his hard earned 150$ for a firebird or something there's just no way he's going to buy a $100 membership to some club. This means he doesn't get help. This means he's likely to find the hobby too challenging and drop out....
You get what you pay for. There is a fine line between hobby and toy. The person who 'plonks down" (sic) $150 for a firebird may be a potential modeller but, by your won admission, has some hurdles ahead. We're here to help answer questions when needed, I've helped many with all aspects of building, trimming, learning to fly and theory (the all too often overlooked aspect of the hobby). No, I don't charge but my time is limited. I spend little time with those who are obviously simply looking for another toy, more time than I should with those who show keen interest in learning.

As for MAAC, many ideas have been tried including reducing junior membership rates, even paying for junior memberships out of zone funds (my zone does this). You can only do so much, I do demos for community events, air cadets, scouts, man the MAAC booth etc., I offer my time to help others learn to fly, to build etc. etc. You may want to consider what you do to improve the situation before you criticise others....

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
THe days of big gas planes being the only option are done. (of course they are great too, just less beginner friendly+cheap)
This I don't get ... since when were "big gas planes" the only option? Even myself, as a "big gas plane" flyer also enjoy sailplanes, park flyers, indoor rubber etc. I think you have some preconceived notions based on the fact that large aircraft tend to net more coverage in magazines?...

** edited to close a quote [&o] **
Old 12-12-2005, 09:01 AM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd

Well I hate MAAC because they are stuck in the past. I don't need some silly newsletter in the mail, and it's irrelevent to me anyway since I don't care that much about what a bunch of other flyers did over the last while. It's stupid that guys flying big gas ships are classed the same as park flyers. It's also stupid that there is no coverage for park flying even when it is legal. People might say that it would be too expensive to insure park flyers due to the risk but if there was a specific definition of what could be flown where, a good compromise could be reached. "But people will just break the rules" you may say...but if they were found to have broken the rules than they could deny coverage...simple. For example rules could allow flight of planes less than 15 oz., 7 cell or 2s lipo maximum, and require a rubber spinner. Combined with updated safety rules and allowance to fly wherever it is legal, a whole new generation of MAAC members could be created. oh yeah ...the membership needs to be like $25 or something!!

When a newbie plonks down his hard earned 150$ for a firebird or something there's just no way he's going to buy a $100 membership to some club. This means he doesn't get help. This means he's likely to find the hobby too challenging and drop out....

THe days of big gas planes being the only option are done. (of course they are great too, just less beginner friendly+cheap)
Seeing as how your from Calgary, the city has a bylaw that prevents flying rc in city parks, so parkflying is in fact illegal here....although many still do it the insurance in an accident would not cover them.

Who is to police a system where a member registers as a park flyer then goes out and buy's a larger model?
Old 12-12-2005, 09:30 AM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

Well said, Jim.

Maybe R/Cnerd's emphasis is on the nerd .....
Old 12-12-2005, 09:41 AM
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britbrat
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

r/cnerd, Jim pretty much said it all.

If you remain as a modeller, your current fascination with park fliers will probably wane due to their limited ability to keep you amused, whereas, other more challenging flying interests will grow in importance to you. MAAC membership will also grow in importance to you -- in lock-step with the increased challenges, opportunities & liabilities associated with those expanding interests.

Park fliers are inexpensive fun, & while they provide an entirely new modelling entry point, they are not going to displace higher performance models as the modelling mainstream. They do represent an opportunity to increase the total number of individuals visiting this hobby, but if they dissappeared tomorrow the hobby would not even suffer a serious twitch. Certainly the manufacturers of that hardware would be hurt, but the traditional hobby world would remain unaffected. Rather than Park fliers being the future of modelling, ARF's & their various close kin most likely represent the future -- & MAAC membership is certainly part of the ARF world.
Old 12-12-2005, 09:47 AM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC


ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
Well I hate MAAC because they are stuck in the past.
We all judge from our own perspective.... I find the latest attention to electric, indoor, turbine etc. to be rather forward thinking...

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
I don't need some silly newsletter in the mail, and it's irrelevent to me anyway since I don't care that much about what a bunch of other flyers did over the last while.
I find the magazine a good source of contacts and information that help me plan my year. Which events look interesting, are reasonable distance and schedule etc. I'm also interested in what new developments or techniques are being developed/tried. It's amazing how many good people I've met simply because I discovered a common interest through the magazine.... and now online.

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
It's stupid that guys flying big gas ships are classed the same as park flyers.
In fact, they're not. If you take the time to read MAAC's safety rules, you'll find specific requirements for many disciplines from lanyard requirements for line control to kill switches for gassers....

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
It's also stupid that there is no coverage for park flying even when it is legal.
You'l find there is coverage provided you fly from a sanctioned location. The only time it's illegal is when you fly from prperty without permission.... and that's not MAAC's fault.

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
... For example rules could allow flight of planes less than 15 oz., 7 cell or 2s lipo maximum, and require a rubber spinner.
Many have struggled with this .. your restrictions, with a light wing loading could result in a relatively safe aircraft. Shave some wing are and I could build guided anti-personnel missle with the same requirements. It's just not that simple.

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
Combined with updated safety rules and allowance to fly wherever it is legal, a whole new generation of MAAC members could be created. oh yeah
There's nothing stopping you from making a proposal.

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
...the membership needs to be like $25 or something!!
Ok, and how do you propose to pay for the rest of MAAC's expenses. I assume you feel that because you don't make use of the services at this point in your life, others don't have need of them?

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
When a newbie plonks down his hard earned 150$ for a firebird or something there's just no way he's going to buy a $100 membership to some club. This means he doesn't get help. This means he's likely to find the hobby too challenging and drop out....
You get what you pay for. There is a fine line between hobby and toy. The person who 'plonks down" (sic) $150 for a firebird may be a potential modeller but, by your won admission, has some hurdles ahead. We're here to help answer questions when needed, I've helped many with all aspects of building, trimming, learning to fly and theory (the all too often overlooked aspect of the hobby). No, I don't charge but my time is limited. I spend little time with those who are obviously simply looking for another toy, more time than I should with those who show keen interest in learning.

As for MAAC, many ideas have been tried including reducing junior membership rates, even paying for junior memberships out of zone funds (my zone does this). You can only do so much, I do demos for community events, air cadets, scouts, man the MAAC booth etc., I offer my time to help others learn to fly, to build etc. etc. You may want to consider what you do to improve the situation before you criticise others....

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
THe days of big gas planes being the only option are done. (of course they are great too, just less beginner friendly+cheap)
This I don't get ... since when were "big gas planes" the only option? Even myself, as a "big gas plane" flyer also enjoy sailplanes, park flyers, indoor rubber etc. I think you have some preconceived notions based on the fact that large aircraft tend to net more coverage in magazines?...

** edited to close a quote [&o] **
It was interesting to see Jim McIntyre take the rant from R/Cnerd and address it point by point.
Everything that Jim said made a lot of sense. Critics are legion in any organization, but it is folk like Jim that make an honest effort to work with, and for, MAAC that have enabled MAAC to survive, grow and improve. MAAC strives to meet the needs of members as diverse as those flying gossamer winged indoor models weighing a gram or two, and those with 200mph turbines. To please all members, all the time, is an impossibility, but the organization does a pretty good job. MAAC does far more behind the scenes to protect and inprove modelling than is visible to the average member. The tip of the iceberg is all that appears, and even that looks impressive in a fair examination.

Richard Barlow
Old 12-12-2005, 01:32 PM
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ORIGINAL: Applehoney

Well said, Jim.

Maybe R/Cnerd's emphasis is on the nerd .....
It'd be nice to discuss the issues rather than getting personal!
I know you were trying to insult me but when it comes to r/c I'm proud to be a nerd!
I will respond in more detail to your critisism of my ideas later....

Oh yeah and lemme guess...all you guys jumping down my throat are MAAC members right? Well I'm speaking for the many many more who are not, but who would be if membership was cheaper and more flexible.

BTW I can insure a 400 lb motorcycle against liability to others for less than my gws slow stik LOL!!!!!

I am a member and I'm greatful MAAC exists but It'd be better to have 50-60% of canadian flyers as members for $30/year rather than 5% @ 100/yr!

So let me get this straight....are you saying that a guy flying a freeflight model weiging under an oz. also has to pay $100 to compete at a sanctioned event for "insurance"???? Sounds like a protection racket.

Oh and as far as who would police it well, who ensures I don't strap explosives to my car or install spikes on my dirtbike? No one really...but if they caused injury I doubt I'd be covered had I violated my agreement w/ my insurer!
Old 12-12-2005, 01:35 PM
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"MAAC strives to meet the needs of members as diverse as those flying gossamer winged indoor models weighing a gram or two, and those with 200mph turbines."

Yeah that's really great...but should they both have to pay the same for insurance????????
Old 12-12-2005, 01:55 PM
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ORIGINAL: r/cnerd

"MAAC strives to meet the needs of members as diverse as those flying gossamer winged indoor models weighing a gram or two, and those with 200mph turbines."

Yeah that's really great...but should they both have to pay the same for insurance????????

Maybe -- maybe not --- but they both have to pay for the MAAC overhead costs -- otherwise no MAAC --- & you would be buying your own insurance.
Old 12-12-2005, 01:56 PM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
Yeah that's really great...but should they both have to pay the same for insurance????????
Ok, if you're really here to discuss (as opposed to trolling) then you need to respond to questions as well. We've already communicated some of the issues related to converting to a tiered service (logical categorisation, policing etc.) .... how would you propose addressing them? Before a viable solution is provided, any further discussion on this subject is moot.

Also, consider the liability if that hypothetical free flight model was found to be the root cause of a multi-car pileup on a major highway.... even you must admit this is even more likely with free flight or range-challenged, non pcm park flyers than with other more reliable equipment.

and...
As a 43 year old "responsible" married male owner of a motorcycle license since my 16th birthday (riding since I measured my age in single digits), I don't see how this is possible ... unless insurance coverage is drastically different in Calgary (quite possible)?
Old 12-12-2005, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: I'm sick of MAAC

Jim, I think that he is equating the insurance portion with the total cost of the MAAC membership. Even then, I can't imagine that the cost of insuring a motorcycle would be less than the total cost of a MAAC membership, let alone the insurance portion, particularly if he is under 25.

My last bike insurance was many hundreds of dollars, & I'm an accident-free, ticket-free rider with nearly 50 yrs of experience.

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