looking for a phoenix 8
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looking for a phoenix 8
I flew one of these when i was a kid for about 15 years it had a OS 61 fx heli motor with tune pipe on it. It was a blast but my old man sold it 5 years ago since i wasnt flying it any more. Also ive check with aztec he's out of country is there any one else with kits. i really want another one to biuld as a electric i want to push it past 200 mph.
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RE: looking for a phoenix 8
ORIGINAL: crankpin
WHAT ??? 200 mph, electric ? Here is one from my hangar, what's the plan ? Why doe's it have to be the 8 ?
Crank
WHAT ??? 200 mph, electric ? Here is one from my hangar, what's the plan ? Why doe's it have to be the 8 ?
Crank
#5
RE: looking for a phoenix 8
That airfoil is never going 200 mph. Especially with open wheel wells on the typical retracts. Try an old Formula 1 kit instead. Thin airfoil and streamlined gear.
Chris...
Chris...
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RE: looking for a phoenix 8
im starting with a neu motor that will turn a 11X10 at 17000 rpm the .60 would only turn a 11x7 at 15500 rpm on a good day
drag of head and pipe will be gone the motor will have easy twice the Hp
drag of head and pipe will be gone the motor will have easy twice the Hp
#14
RE: looking for a phoenix 8
Rob,
That was my thinking too, 38 % more, but 11 x 10 and 17000 is probably 259 km/h max is 161 mph (100 % prop efficiency!!)
I will do a double check!
edit, I did check my calculation, correct.
Prop eff never can be 100 % so Rob's values are more realistic.
Anybody else?
Cees
That was my thinking too, 38 % more, but 11 x 10 and 17000 is probably 259 km/h max is 161 mph (100 % prop efficiency!!)
I will do a double check!
edit, I did check my calculation, correct.
Prop eff never can be 100 % so Rob's values are more realistic.
Anybody else?
Cees
#15
RE: looking for a phoenix 8
Wagner24314
When our calculations are correct, we need at least about 54 % more power, (from 161 to 200), to reach 200 mph, can you make that?
The prop must have an efficiency of 100 % than!
Cees
When our calculations are correct, we need at least about 54 % more power, (from 161 to 200), to reach 200 mph, can you make that?
The prop must have an efficiency of 100 % than!
Cees
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RE: looking for a phoenix 8
I just did a quick back-of-the envelope calculation:
Thrust = Drag
Drag = 1/2(rho)V**2SCd - Fortran notation used to denote velocity squared
I assumed air density (rho), surface area (S), and Drag Coefficient (Cd) as constants and arrived at a ratio of (200 mph) squared divided by (170 mph) squared
I also assumed prop efficiency as a constant (probably not the case) and power to thrust curve is linear (a simplification) and came out with 1.38 as the ratio. Simplified, but a starting point.
Rob
Thrust = Drag
Drag = 1/2(rho)V**2SCd - Fortran notation used to denote velocity squared
I assumed air density (rho), surface area (S), and Drag Coefficient (Cd) as constants and arrived at a ratio of (200 mph) squared divided by (170 mph) squared
I also assumed prop efficiency as a constant (probably not the case) and power to thrust curve is linear (a simplification) and came out with 1.38 as the ratio. Simplified, but a starting point.
Rob
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RE: looking for a phoenix 8
Wagner,
The Phoenix 7 suggestion is a good one. The airframe is readily available and is very well engineered. You use a P-7 ARF as a proof-of-concept plane and see how it works out before installing it in a hard-to-find classic.
I am curious if you can hit 200, Also, I did a quick check of your power numbers. You might need a bigger ESC. To get 3000 watts on 6S, you'll be pulling over 120 amps. That assumes full charge and no voltage drpression from the load.
When you fly the E-Phoenix, please post the results.
Rob
The Phoenix 7 suggestion is a good one. The airframe is readily available and is very well engineered. You use a P-7 ARF as a proof-of-concept plane and see how it works out before installing it in a hard-to-find classic.
I am curious if you can hit 200, Also, I did a quick check of your power numbers. You might need a bigger ESC. To get 3000 watts on 6S, you'll be pulling over 120 amps. That assumes full charge and no voltage drpression from the load.
When you fly the E-Phoenix, please post the results.
Rob
#19
RE: looking for a phoenix 8
Rob,
You are correct,.
When I calculate the needed power it is 220 % more than the moter 11X10 at 17000 of this moment. ( with 70 % efficiency of the prop).
All fast calculations!
Cees
You are correct,.
When I calculate the needed power it is 220 % more than the moter 11X10 at 17000 of this moment. ( with 70 % efficiency of the prop).
All fast calculations!
Cees
#20
RE: looking for a phoenix 8
ORIGINAL: Hokie Flyer
hard-to-find classic.
hard-to-find classic.
I’ll be watching this thread with interest.
Like to see 200mph out of a P-8, and e-power to boot!
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RE: looking for a phoenix 8
Maybe the 170 mph was actually 170 kph... easy for the gun to just have been in metric mode.
What about reducing the airfoil thickness in the P7/P8 rather than going to an F1 design. Going with a P8 might actually make this easier to accomplish since the cores could be cut fresh. On the other hand a P7 fuse/tail kit could be bought and a new wing made. I would want a foam core wing if aiming to hit 200 mph - that's some serious speed. Full carbon veil treatment and heck, maybe even some square CF spars lining the sides of the retract wells. Full covers and paint of course.
What kind of C rating discharge are we talking about? I know there's a guy who setup a GP revolver (I believe) with 10s. It weighed a ton (10-11 lbs I think) but it moved out in a serious way. Unlimited vertical was an understatement - it just vanished. That guy had really good eyes (or perhaps the eye in hid mind).
Cool,
its been a while since I read anyone making an equation post using Fortran notation. I might have used v^2 notation. Actually this notation is something that applications such as Firefox understand. Ever try punching in 10^2 in the FF Google field? All kind of conversions can be done.
David.
What about reducing the airfoil thickness in the P7/P8 rather than going to an F1 design. Going with a P8 might actually make this easier to accomplish since the cores could be cut fresh. On the other hand a P7 fuse/tail kit could be bought and a new wing made. I would want a foam core wing if aiming to hit 200 mph - that's some serious speed. Full carbon veil treatment and heck, maybe even some square CF spars lining the sides of the retract wells. Full covers and paint of course.
What kind of C rating discharge are we talking about? I know there's a guy who setup a GP revolver (I believe) with 10s. It weighed a ton (10-11 lbs I think) but it moved out in a serious way. Unlimited vertical was an understatement - it just vanished. That guy had really good eyes (or perhaps the eye in hid mind).
ORIGINAL: Hokie Flyer
I just did a quick back-of-the envelope calculation:
Thrust = Drag
Drag = 1/2(rho)V**2SCd - Fortran notation used to denote velocity squared
I just did a quick back-of-the envelope calculation:
Thrust = Drag
Drag = 1/2(rho)V**2SCd - Fortran notation used to denote velocity squared
its been a while since I read anyone making an equation post using Fortran notation. I might have used v^2 notation. Actually this notation is something that applications such as Firefox understand. Ever try punching in 10^2 in the FF Google field? All kind of conversions can be done.
David.
#22
RE: looking for a phoenix 8
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer
Hallo Wagner24314
Did you measure that 170 mph, and if yes, how?
With that you can estimate the power needed for 200 mph
Cees
Hallo Wagner24314
Did you measure that 170 mph, and if yes, how?
With that you can estimate the power needed for 200 mph
Cees
where do you get those tires?
#23
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RE: looking for a phoenix 8
Rob,
Back in the seventies Dr. Maynard Hill set a speed record while working at John Hopkins Applied Physics Lab. If memory serves me the speed record was in the 180s (believe MPH). Doing some searching I noticed an article referencing Dr.Hill on wattflyer, progressiveengineer, and RCU: <cite>www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=2214160</cite> (cached). Remembering the story from then he made many attempts at getting the aircraft correct and the engine properly setup (glow, 10cc) and eventually was successful at setting the record. Much could be learned from his work should this progress beyond just a discussion.
Respectfully,
Mike Plummer
Back in the seventies Dr. Maynard Hill set a speed record while working at John Hopkins Applied Physics Lab. If memory serves me the speed record was in the 180s (believe MPH). Doing some searching I noticed an article referencing Dr.Hill on wattflyer, progressiveengineer, and RCU: <cite>www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=2214160</cite> (cached). Remembering the story from then he made many attempts at getting the aircraft correct and the engine properly setup (glow, 10cc) and eventually was successful at setting the record. Much could be learned from his work should this progress beyond just a discussion.
Respectfully,
Mike Plummer
#24
RE: looking for a phoenix 8
MetallicaJunkie,
You write: where do you get those tires?
We could buy these tires (wheels) in the Netherlands but that could be a VERY long time ago.
Dimensions are 73 mm 2 13/16 on it (see picture) but there is no brandname.
Reason I did show the picture was, he did write:
the one i flew not that many years ago would do 170mph with a 60 heli engine. 200 isnt that much faster
"Would"? Does that mean he didn’t measure it.
I often measure and log the real airspeed and for that I know my highest speed ever was 245 km/h (152 mph) in a vertical down line, horizontal speed 195 km/h (122 mph), pumped Webra Speed 10 ccm with Sonex pipe and own design pattern airplane. That's why I think 200 mph you will not reach with that plane, but I am curious.
Cees
You write: where do you get those tires?
We could buy these tires (wheels) in the Netherlands but that could be a VERY long time ago.
Dimensions are 73 mm 2 13/16 on it (see picture) but there is no brandname.
Reason I did show the picture was, he did write:
the one i flew not that many years ago would do 170mph with a 60 heli engine. 200 isnt that much faster
"Would"? Does that mean he didn’t measure it.
I often measure and log the real airspeed and for that I know my highest speed ever was 245 km/h (152 mph) in a vertical down line, horizontal speed 195 km/h (122 mph), pumped Webra Speed 10 ccm with Sonex pipe and own design pattern airplane. That's why I think 200 mph you will not reach with that plane, but I am curious.
Cees
#25
RE: looking for a phoenix 8
remmulp ekim,
I always do put an "enter" behind such a link you did show
www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=2214160
Cees
I always do put an "enter" behind such a link you did show
www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=2214160
Cees