Like a lot of you, I received the unsolicited video a few weeks ago, and thought it was free gift. But yesterday, I got a letter requesting that I pay about $9, or send the video back.
First off, that video does not show any of my kind of airplanes (giant scale IMAC type), and I can't say that I am impressed with the pilots skills displayed.
Second, I (probably mistakingly) thought that the AMA was a group of people who simply existed to take care of its members. I am extremely dissapointed that "IT" is not happy having become a profitable insurance company, "IT" now uses pushy sales techniques that have turned me away from all publishing (and other money hungry) companies. I suspect that AMA has probably even sold my (and your) information to other companies.
At this point, I doubt that I will renew my membership next year. My home owner's insurance provides adequate coverage. I just felt like my membership gave me a more satisfying sense of belonging in this great hobby of ours. I still want to belong in the hobby, but I have great disdain for any organization that generates a search for political promotion and displays such hunger for monetary gain.

AMA would like to get the unwanted videos back so they can be sent to members who have requested them.

You _did_ keep the postage paid envelope, right ?

You might also read [link=http://www.amadistrict-v.org/dvd.html]this.[/link]

Yes I got the letter also, even though I sent them their 9 bucks. A month ago . still have not gotten the next video , but they are harrassing me about nine dollars. I agree with the last reply that a little garbage mail is just gonna happen in our society. but when THEY have already CASHED the check and then send me a letter telling to pay up, well that pisses me off. AND how long will I have to wait for the next thrilling nail biting video that looks like it was made by high school students? WHEN THEY ARE READY. I will be canceling any future videos. You got me for one and no more. Defend them all you want, They already cashed my check long before the form letter was sent.

I think I see a pattern here. You didn't read the letter that came with the video. You didn't read the letter that came as a follow up. You didn't read the membership manual sent to you explaining the insurance (the AMA supplies insurance as a benefit of membership though an insurance company and makes no money on the sale of insurance). You also didn't read the first page of this forum where there are currently 4 other threads on this same subject (several more on pages behind the first one).

J_R you are right, there is a pattern: I don't read junk mail, even when it comes from AMA. As for the video, I agree with the previous post mentioning the high school student level of production. I will call AMA tomorrow to request a new pre-paid envelope.
I hate junk mail and merchandise peddling enough to suspend my membership just to avoid receiving any.

IF you had read the posts here, or either of the letters, which you haven't, you would find that you can keep the video as a gift, if you so chose. You would also find that you can call the AMA and have yourself removed from further solicitations (ask for the membership department). You could also have done that when you sent in your renewal.

I think I see a pattern here. You didn't read the letter that came with the video. You didn't read the letter that came as a follow up. You didn't read the membership manual sent to you explaining the insurance (the AMA supplies insurance as a benefit of membership though an insurance company and makes no money on the sale of insurance). You also didn't read the first page of this forum where there are currently 4 other threads on this same subject (several more on pages behind the first one).
[/quote]

JR-
I see a pattern too.........
Who reads all the junk mail that gets dumped in their mailbox? I don't.
What membership manual? - I don't recall getting one - maybe it was is was in the junk mail or magazine I don't get around to reading.
AMA is in the insurance business big time, not just a sideline that 'makes no money on the sale of insurance.' Insurance is the only reason 90% of AMA members are members. Most claims are paid from the $250K per incident self-insurance reserve, not by the commercial insurance company. AMA pays these claims, and because of that AMA policy is driven by insurance issues. Huge reserves have been amassed to pay claims in a worst case scenario. The lavish facilities at Muncie are justified as a way to maintain those reserves in an illiquid form that is supposedly less attractive to hungry land sharks. Avoidance of liability is the driver behind so-called 'safety' rules and stifles growth, both as to new technology in the hobby and to blocking the newcomers from entering the hobby/sport and potentially turning around the decline in AMA and club membership. It is disingenuous to pass off insurance as just a 'benefit of membership' when in fact the current administration has turned it into the very reason for the existence of AMA. I'm pretty sure you know that without the insurance, there would be no AMA. Maybe it would be better if people did not read and become informed about what really makes AMA tick. Then maybe all would be content knowing that 'AMA got our frequencies' and for that happily pay their dues until Hell freezes over.

Abel

Hi Abel

Take a look at your 2004 issue of MA. Mine still has a large sticker on the cover pointing out that the Membership Manual is enclosed.

As I have posted before, there is no doubt that the financial well being of the AMA is tied to the insurance coverage provided landlords by the policy covering clubs. That being said, I have never been able to figure out your concern with the AMA, or for that matter, any business having risk management (or liability avoidence, as you prefer to call it) as a major goal. I have also posted that I think the President of the AMA is overly concerned with risk management. Can you give me an example of any business, that is still in business, that does not have a concern over risk management to some extent? I can't think of even one.

There was an AMA, and AMA clubs, before the landlord coverage, and, my guess is that they would exist now if there were no landlord coverage now. I would agree that they would not exist in the numbers that they do now.

None of this excuses the inital poster in this thread, who never even looked at the existing threads on the first page of threads in this forum. Many have not been happy with the DVD. The large majority, but not all, that have posted at least took time to look before posting, and posted in existing threads.

JR

edit: it was the August 2004 issue of MA that contained the Membership Manual.

I wonder if they are holding my issues of MA until I pay the $9. Haven't recieved a new issue in quite a while.

No, I've been getting MY magazines, and I didn't send them $9.00 for the poorly done video.

I guess I need to make a call to Muncie then.[:@]

J_R,

Maybe by the time I get to thousands of posts, I will know how to better use RCU and find the appropriate threads, but for now , most of my interest has been directed to getting information on what I love to do: flying model airplanes.
As far as reading junk mail, for once I read the one I just received; and it clearly says that Volume One of the (lousy) videos had been sent to me, and that it is now time to either pay for it, or return the DVD.
I too had thought that it was a "free gift". Obviously, this last letter contradicts this idea...........

Hi islandflyer

Could you post a copy of the letter you recieved... with the personal information blocked out, of course?

Did it contain the following:

"If you decide to return the DVD, simply put it in the carton with your Member Reply Form and apply the postage-paid label. There is no cost to you and no questions asked. Because you didn’t request this special DVD, you are under no obligation to do anything." ?

JR

J_R, and everyone else,

My apologies!!!
I indeed misread the letter: does appear in the letter.

islandflyer

No apologies necessary. Stick around and give your input here once in a while.

[quote]ORIGINAL: J_R

<snip>
As I have posted before, there is no doubt that the financial well being of the AMA is tied to the insurance coverage provided landlords by the policy covering clubs. That being said, I have never been able to figure out your concern with the AMA, or for that matter, any business having risk management (or liability avoidence, as you prefer to call it) as a major goal. I have also posted that I think the President of the AMA is overly concerned with risk management. Can you give me an example of any business, that is still in business, that does not have a concern over risk management to some extent? I can't think of even one.

There was an AMA, and AMA clubs, before the landlord coverage, and, my guess is that they would exist now if there were no landlord coverage now. I would agree that they would not exist in the numbers that they do now.

None of this excuses the inital poster in this thread, who never even looked at the existing threads on the first page of threads in this forum. Many have not been happy with the DVD. The large majority, but not all, that have posted at least took time to look before posting, and posted in existing threads.

Hi JR-

Maybe I'm just grumpy about AMA insurance because I don't need it: have plenty of insurance coverage that is primary, and AMA insurance would never come into the picture. Not so much a matter of having to pay for it, but more a gripe about having to conform to restrictions placed on modeling activity by terms of 'sombody else's insurance policy.' My PUP specifies one exclusion: my models cannot carry human passengers. Further, nobody dictated to me that I had to buy the PUP.
If the insurance coverage was limited to what you cited, I would have little or no problem with it. That's only part of it though. Not clear how much a part, because the actual cost of it is subsidized by the personal liability insurance AMA sells and demands that every individual that flies at an AMA insured club must have. I believe that has been stifling the growth of model aviation for a number of years, and as you know model aviation is more important to me than AMA. I'm pleased with the growth of park fliers, as they have opened up model aviation to a lot of people that were shut out by the closed-shop nature of AMA and the mandates put on clubs to conform with that policy. Add the paranoid level of concern with the current administration of AMA over liabiility risk, and I see far too much influence of this 'benefit' to members on our national organization and in turn most of the club flying scene.
It bugs me that the same individual that would place draconian restrictions on our modeling activity to avoid liability risk is lobbying government agencies that have the ultimate control over everyone, AMA members and not. I don't want DHS, FAA etc. making rules based on what DB is and is not willing to have AMA insure. I said this before and you strongly disagreed, but I don't think the AMA insurance czar should be on the Safety Committee. Insurance has nothing to do with safety - it takes effect after safety measures have failed to preclude a liability situation. Feedback from insurance claims can help identify safety risks, but that doesn't demand insurance interests be represented on the SC. The issue of a CD being on-site during an incident is an example from recent discussions. Most would agree that it is in the best interest of safety for the CD or his rep to be on-site during all times when flying is going on, but the insurance interest is in conflict; AMA wants the CD to leave the site when activities considered risky are to take place, to avoid liability.
Anyway, that's enough of my gripe with the insurance situation, and as to your query, you're right, businesses need to consider risk management. They do not however have to be dominated by it. Any that are dominated by it end up losers. Most of our businesses are based in capitalism - no risk, no gain.

Abel

The letter I received said " Because you didnt ask for this special DVD, you dont have to participate or send it back and you could consider it a free gift" I have not received anything asking for payment yet, but if I do, then I will call them and tell them to take a flying leap. I will proceed with a class action lawsuit if they wish to try to collect for this dvd that I didnt ask for, I am considering it a free gift as the paper reads.

Please......

Under federal law...you don't have to pay for anything that you didn't request that you receive in the mail. This DVD (assuming you didn't request it) is one of those things. When I got it...I threw it out...didn't even watch it. When I got the junk mail today from the AMA asking for payment of the DVD I didn't ask for, I threw it out with all of the other junk mail I got.

I think it's pathetic for the AMA to stoop to sending it's members unsolicited material (whatever it may be) and then asking them to pay for it hoping that the member in question will take pity on the AMA (or, God forbid, actually find it worthwhile) and send the cash in. It's kinda sad but the AMA's all we got and although I didn't vote for DB (he didn't need my vote, he's got all the FF and CL guys)....but he's still my president.[&o]

I can not believe there is so much sniveling over $9. I partisapate in AMA RC flying becaues its fun. And a whole lot less expencive than anything else I have done to entertain myself in this short lifetime. This hobby is cheap, I am suprized the AMA insurance is so low percentage wize, seeing how so many model airplane companys are falling all over themselves trying to make those $1000+ airplanes due to high demand.
One of the guys in my club has jets and giant scale airplanes worth over $30,000. And yet his dues to be in AMA is the same as mine. I'd say someone at AMA is doing the right things!
Howard Rich

I participate in RC flying because it is fun. I ONLY participate in the AMA becuase it is a must at the flying fields. The reason people are "sniveling" over $9 dollars is they send us a video, that we did not ask for, tell us that we may keep it "free of charge" and consider it a gift if we dont want to participate, then start sending us letters demanding money for it. I just received my first letter today wanting me to send them the money for it. I will be calling the AMA and telling them exactly what I think of these kind of tactics and what they can do with there "insurance" if this is the kind of business they are going to run. Its NOT the $9, its the principal of the whole thing.

I normally value my time to much to read junk mail, but since it was from the AMA (who never sends junk mail)
I read the letter. Before I had a chance to read the letter, the mailing envelope was already ripped beyond re-use and thrown in the trash.
Interesting marketing approach. Basically - You didn't ask for this, so you can keep it without paying for it if you are a cheapskate. If you are honorable, you will return it so that we can try to shame some other soul into giving us $9 for a worthless video. Yes - worthless. Many 12 year old kids could have done a better job with a 3 year old video editing program. The titling was absolutely HORRIBLE! And the video editing itself wasn't that good. They did a decent job with the packaging though

Anyway, with no usable return mailer, I just tossed it on top of my ever-growing pile of AOL CD's. Then the letters started every two weeks. 'The response has been fantastic! - you are almost the only person who hasn't paid for this great DVD. No obligation, but you are a low-life cheapskate if you don't pay or return it.' Hmmfpt... [:@] After two letters, I gave in... Sent them their $9 and told them to send me the next DVD. That was 5-6 weeks ago. NO MORE DVD's. I don't think there are any more DVD's. They suckered me - and I know of one other person in my club who also sent the $9 and never got another DVD either.

My respect for the AMA is at an all time low based upon this slickly crafted money making stunt. There are a lot of old-timers in the AMA who are very honest people who will feel a sense of obligation to pay for this crappy DVD. I feel it very wrong that the AMA should use psychological manipulation and guilt to extract money from people.

My second letter stated that the $9 is an "introductory" price. So I wonder how much the following DVDs are going to cost?

I couldn't send mine back if I wanted to, my mailman left it on the front porch and my Labrador got to it before me.

I, too, was ticked off about the dvd, and, excuse me, didn't get on the "right" thread to comment. In seeing this thread today, I got all worked up again, but noted in the letter sent with it a phone number (1-877-708-4868). I called this number and a very nice lady helped me get my name removed from future offers and also marked my account as not wanting anything unsolicited sent my way. Pretty easy. Obviously, there have been a number of calls and it appears they are trying to accomodate those of us who are so easily offended.

I just got my ER bill for cutting my thumb on my prop two weeks ago. They are charging me $70 for a tetanus shot and three hundred just for the ER visit.
If you guys want to get worked up so much how about all the real scams going on today. Like underfunded pension plans, healthcare prices, out of control democrat and republican goverment coruption or mainstream media lying to us. Billions of dollars flying out the window and you guys are upset over $9!
Ok, That's enough children I will stop preaching now.
Howard

But it is a good sermon!