Hi !

I'm considering an electric conversion of the new H9 Showtime 4D !

Let's discuss some alternatives in this thread to help me and others getting the optimal setup!

I guess that the required setup will be somewhat similar to the Funtana 90 conversions?

Regards
OAK

For awesome performance on the H9 Showtime 4D so that you can beat on it without worry, you can use the following setup.

[ul][*] AXI 5320/28 motor[*] Jeti 90-amp ESC[*] 8s to 10s Kokam 3.2AH pack[*] 18" to 20" APC e-prop[*] Digital servos[*] FMA Power Force Regulator 6v at 10amps
[/ul]

Thank you for your suggestion greg. I'll look a bit closer on that setup.

Here are some of the motors I have seen mentioned in other threads with somewhat similar setups:

Hacker C50 series (mostly 13xl but also 12xl and 14xl)
AXI 5320 series (/28 or /14)
Actro 40-5 or 24-6
Plettenberg Xtra series (25,30)
Feigao Nemesis B50 13xl
Lehner 2250-12

If you have more info about any of these please feel free to share!

It's not about the motor, it's about getting enough Watts through the motor. Any of the motors you listed will work if they can handle the kind of power necessary to fly the plane in a fairly efficient manner. In your list, the only one I'd doubt is the smaller Actro.

The plane should weigh in the 9lb range, which means you need 1350-1500 Watts for full 3D (that's 150+ Watts per pound) performance. On a 10S LiPoly, that's in the high 40s for Amps, something like 46 or 47 Amps. All you need to do is get a motor that will handle a 10S LiPoly (or 32 NiMH cells) at 46-47 Amps, and prop it to draw that much. You'll be in pig heaven

Of the bunch, the AXi is the most cost effective.

Since the axi is the most cost-effective, what is the drawback of picking that motor? (I guess there have to be something or else everybody would have chosen that one)

OAK

or getting enough watts to the air... you can buy a Hacker system and still have less power then the AXI just because the motor happen to say 9 instead of 13, or 11 instead of 14... the important thing is to get all the numbers right to swing as large prop as possible.


AXIs like voltage better then amps so aim for 10s setup and maybe 50Amps and that on a 20" prop. looking at Gregs experiments that should be very possible.

I´m more in to geard systems where my choice would fall on a Hacker C50 12XL 8s3p setup with a prop to pull 70Amps, say 22x12 or so. more power, more $$$


good luck and have a nice weekend!

You give up a some efficiency and flexibility with the AXi. The AXi is like a glow engine in that it only works well with a relatively narrow range of props, whereas a geared motor like a Hacker has virtually unlimited prop-spinning capability by simply changing gear ratios. The Hacker/gearbox setup is also several percentage points more efficient, so that much more energy gets to the propeller.

I don't konw why, but I have a special feeling for the hacker C50 and I think that is the motor I want to base my setup on. But I realize that it's not the cheapest option.

A LHS sells a combo consisting of a C50-13XL 6,7:1, Hacker MASTER 90-3P OPTO-Acro. As it seems as the max. diam. prop I can fit on the Showtime without modifying/replacing the landing-gear is 20-inch (APC-E 20x10), I'll pick batteries that will give sufficient power with such a prop. I guess a 10s then is the choice? Since I have good experiences with TP in other applications I may choose two TP4000 5s Pro Lite packs.

As from Henke's recommendation this may not be the ideal setup in this particular plane (as he suggested the 12xl with a 8s pack), but I guess this combo still will work great and I will have even bigger room for using the same setup in bigger airplanes later if I should need that?

So this is the setup I am leaning onto at the moment, but still no decisions are made. I may still may end up with an outrunner :-)

Summary:
C50-13XL 6,7:1
MASTER 90-3P OPTO-Acro
10s TP4000 Pro Lite
APC-E 20x10

Comments would be nice! And even better, some test results (amps, flight-times, temps, etc.) if anyone have tried this particular (or similar) setups.

BTW, is there big difference in sound/smoothness of a geared vs. outrunner setup in this size? From my experience with smaller setups the geared ones are considerably more noisy! Is dampened motor-mounts often used to get rid of some of the resonance-frequencies you can hear in the fuselage?

OAK

I am flying a hanger9 funtana 90 that I converted to electric. I have it setup with the hacker C5014XL, 10S 2P duralights. swinging a 22X10 APCe prop. I am pulling 1900 watts at wot, and 55 amps. the plane has crazy power. I was thinking about puting the same setup in a showtime.

chuck

Motor, controller and batteries are now bought.

The point that made it easier to choose was that I got a nice deal on a second-hand (but not used) Actro 40-5 and Actronic 70-32 controller (also new in box). I have also ordered two 5s2p TP4000 Pro Lite batteries that I'll connect in series. I have seen mentioned in other threads that this will give about 2,1kW with an 20x10 prop. I have also seen that the APC-e may not be strong enough for this setup and that carbon-prop is recommended. Any comment on this?

Where is carbon-propellers of this size (19-20inch) available at reasonable prices?

I guess I should prop a bit "low" on the first runs to help break in the pack and to make sure I don't overload anthing. Any suggestions on good propeller for low to medium power?

So what do you guys think? Is it a good setup?

BTW: The controller do not have lipo-LVC. Is there a device that can be connected between the controller and throttle-channel to act as LVC? I also need a sort of BEC-circuit. What is recommended?

Regards
OAK

Here's a post I made a few weeks back with the set up I used in the electric Showtime we demoed at SEFF a few months back:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3022260

This week I'll be getting a few sets of Thunder Power 5S2P 4000mAh Pro Lite packs so I can run 10S2P with the C50-12XL motor. The new prop will be a 19x10E for the 10S2P set up, delivering about 1700 watts of power (about 48-52 amps current draw). I already know the power will be pretty incredible...cant wait for the packs to arrive!

Ive been traveling a lot the last few weeks for various events and vendor visits but I'll be finishing up the conversion article soon. Hope to get video of the 10S set up soon too!

For those who may not have seen it, theres some quick "teaser" video footage from SEFF 2005 with the first flight we put on the electric Showtime (using the 8S set up) at the event. This was only the 3rd flight of the model (we test flew it twice a few days before) but we flew it a ton more during the event. Mark Leseberg put in some AWESOME demos with the Showtime Saturday and Sunday!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=514

The footage is on the second video link posted there (9.45MB) and starts about 30 seconds in. Its only a short teaser, but you can see the power on take off even with a cold pack (vertical gets even better once the pack warms up in flight) is quite good. With 10S itll be even better

For a 40-5 on 10s Lipo APCE are not strong enough, i had big trubbel during acceleration and max RPM on the 20" APCE, now there are RASA carbon props avalibul with simular chape as APCE but much stronger, best prop for 3D and still have very high % is 20x8" on the 40-5. To swing bigger props the 40-6 is better, but i belive the best mixed performance u get from the 40-5, i have tesded that motor alot, i love it...very powerfull, fast trotteling, stays cooool and much power. I belive the only motor that can beat it is the awsome new Xtra 30 but that is abit havier and lotts of more $, for fast trotteling and nice startup the Jeti advance works very good with all Actro motors, from C to 60 sice.

Thank you for your replies so far!

@Joacim: What exactly is the problem with the props? Do they break? Do you have any amp-measurements on APC-e 18x8 and 19x8 and 20x10 (these are the props I have intended to try first)?

@Jason Merkle: Do you have any pictures of the battery-installation, cooling-holes in the firewall etc.? Are you using the "long" TP-pack? (305mm length).

Regards
OAK

Problem is they cant keep in chape during high power and high acceleration they will start to vibbrate and saound realy bad.

Here you have some messurments i have done on the Actro motors: http://web.telia.com/~u15807174/TestmotorerActro.htm

The 20x10 has abit to much pich for good 3D 19x8 or 20x8 is better i think.

Maidened my showtime with electric setup today. Success!!!

It was somewhat gusty today so I did not got the opportunity to really feel how good it flys, but the impression I got so far is that it flies extremely well. Very smooth and precise. At the suggested low rates the roll was fast, but on high-rates the roll-rate is unbelievable. Maybe 5 rolls in a second or so (did not count). I only got time to one flight but I am looking forward to more flights with this bird. And to try the SFG's.

And the sound of it was really sweet. Very, very quiet. The actro is mounted with rubber-mount. But the prop made some strange noise near full throttle on the ground (probably the problem you described Joacim).

The only problem I got was a little short radio-range. With motor at half throttle the range was not very long with the tx-antenna down. Tried to move rx-antenna from inside fuse to outside on top of tail. Helped a bit. Tried to use a rx-batt instead of ubec, helped maybe a tiny bit but not much. Will try another type of receiver tomorrow to see if that one is little less sensitive to electrical noise. Any other suggestions?

BTW Joacim (and any other swedish/norwegian). Are you going to the Arvik meeting this weekend? I'm planning to bring my Showtime there.

Flew about 12 minutes (somewhat careful on the throttle), and the pack charged 1800mAh after the flight. Nice! Pack temperature after flight 25 degrees celsius. Engine temp. 30 degrees celsius.

Motor/radio-setup:

Actro 40-5 motor
Actronic 70-32 regulator
UBEC HV 5V
Thunder Power 10s 2p 4000mAh Pro Lite
APCe 18x8
Motor current-draw: 52A
Aileron servos: Futaba S9451
Elevator-servos: Futaba S9252
Rudder-servo: Futaba S9351
RX: R5014DPS
TX: 14MZ

Regards
Ole André Knutsen

Hey Oak

Do you have any pictures of your setup. Im getting ready to start on mine with an AXI 5320/28 and was thinking of using 5 2s 3200 kokams. What is your weight?

I don't have any pictures of the battery/motor setup yet, but I will take some as soon as I get to borrow a camera. Ready to fly weight is 10lbs 3oz (4610g).

Will be nice to compare and dicuss the differences between your and mine setup. What prop will you use, and what power-level do you expect?

Regards
OAK

I was gonna prop it for about 1500 watts to start, so like a 20x8 apce , But after reading about the problems with these big apc's I might try a carbon prop from my gasser first a Mejzik 20x6. I think its actually light than the apc one. I still dont have my motor yet , I backordered it during that Hobby-lobby axi sale. It should be here in a couple weeks.

I see that the TP prolite 4000 is actually 5 oz light than 5 2s kokam 3200's . I havent used any of the Pro lites yet I might have to check them out.

how much flying time am i looking at with the hacker setup?

Joacim, do you know where I can buy the carbon-props you are mentioning?

Regards
OAK

would 2 - 4 cell 4000mah packs work well with a axi 5320/28 motor? My charger only charges up to 4 cell packs!

WHat ever happened to this thread?

Kirby

Im still in the process of building mine. Just waiting for the espirt motor mount then ill have everything.

My setup is

Axi 5320/28 apce 20x8 prop
jetti optio 77 advanced
kokam 2000's in a 9s2p config
Hitec 5645mg's all the way around



Hey Oak did you put the rudder servo in the tail or do pull pull?

Got any photos of the kit?

Kirby

Well Finally got it all together. Tested it getting 1650 watt at 51amp at wot. Power feels crazy. I didnt run it long since this is the first discharge on my pack. I got it on the astro 109 discharging now. One wierd thing is with this pack the astro is pulsing it from 0 to 1 amp and on a small 3 cell pack it normally discharges constant at one amp. Is this normal? What spinners are you guys using for these huge apce props. I bought a dubro but im gonna have to cut the hell out of it to get it to fit.

Here are a couple pics of the motor mounted and the battery tray