For those of you who have been a member of this forum for a year or so, you would have seen several posts about the poor service from Dave Patrick Models; for those that don’t know, I’d like to share my experience.

Last year I purchased a copy of June 2005 Flying Models, which featured a cover story of a Dave Patrick Scale Masters Super Cub. After reading the article I feel in love with the idea of building my own.

Living in Australia meant that I would have to buy one direct from DPM. After some planning I decided to go with something different, a Scale Masters level Clipped Wing Cub. Once I made this choice I immediately logged onto the DPM website and purchased an ARF Clipped Cub.

Upon my order I sent an email through requesting express airfreight, with a note stating that I don’t mind paying the extra.

While waiting for my delivery, I ordered a Saito Black Knight 125 along with some other goodies. Two weeks past and I was beginning to wonder what was happening with my new order, as express freight from The States usually arrives within a week.

I once again sent an email, requesting a tracking note… two more weeks past, no reply.

I was getting nervous, so I sat up to 3am in the morning and made an international call to them. Dave answered and was quite polite, but didn’t know anything about the order, so he put Sandy on. Sandy said that she had taken the order and read my emails, but they did not have clipped wings in stock. I asked why she had not replied to my order or emails; she said, “I don’t know.”

I was told they would have some in stock in about 4 weeks and they would email me to confirm that it had been sent. 6 weeks had gone by, but no reply, so I called again. Sandy told me, that they had arrived, but were now sold out. She had forgotten my order and I would have to wait another 3 months. Being in retail marketing I am a stickler for good service, so I said forget it, I will buy something else.

A few weeks later I found out that Esprit Models had just taken order of several DPM clipped wings… funny that they didn’t have to wait 3 months. Still being keen about the thought of owning one, I purchased one off their site. 4 days later the huge box arrived.

Being that I had just spent about $1,300.00 AUD including freight, I was keen to see the highly praised quality that I had read about in Flying Models. My smile dropped as I pulled the plane out of the box.

The covering on the fuselage was wrinkled more than I had ever seen, the cowl had chips in it, the glue around several bulk-heads had given way, the windscreen was cracked, the landing gear was rusted and to top it off, I could see a cracked rib. I was shocked with the quality and as it was packed so well, I found it hard to believe the damage would have been caused in transit.

I immediately sent an email to Esprit, who wrote back stating that this was not uncommon for DPM planes and that they would no longer be selling them due to the quality and lack of service.

I decided that trying to send it back for a refund was a too-hard-basket situation and considering I was building it to a scale masters level, I would be stripping it back anyway.

When I stripped the covering back I noticed that the covering on the wings was shrunk way too much and every ribbed was cracked on both wings. To add to this, one wing had a massive wood knot in it and the other had a rotten piece of balsa sheeting, which was super brittle.

I have now been working on this for several months and have fixed all of the problems and have recovered it with life like Oratex fabric covering. Still to this date as I work on a new part I notice more problems. Today the one part of the landing gear snapped off due to rust and I realised that the main wheels are different sizes, by a 1/4-inch. ***?

I have given up on getting service from DPM, as has now been 9 months and I still haven’t received my replacement windscreen, which has been paid for.

I just hope that my post here makes people realise that Dave Patrick Models is a no fly zone. Their kits are poor quality and the service is non-existent . And don’t ever give them your credit card details because they’ll take your money for a part and you’ll never receive and won’t reply to your emails... and these days, they don’t even answer their phone.


On a positive note, my Cub is starting to take shape and I’m looking forward to posting a thread showing the build and final product.

thanks for putting the word out. we as modlers need to help each other by getting the news out when a company is not doing the right thing. sorry to here about your trouble.

randy racer

hello proscalerc I know what it feels like I have been waiting for a set of 580 wings from great planes for 5 months now. Now i have been told it will be january 2007 which it will make it 6 months waiting. they like taking your money but won't back up the service.
It will be the last stuff that i'll buy from great planes. they will bee loosing alot of money here in perth as a lot of flyers here have seen what I am going through with great planes and they said that they will never buy from great planes untill they do the right thing buy me and I don't blame them. great planes will be loosing alot of money here in perth

Sorry to hear about the bad experience. Not to pile on, but a quick search on Esprit Models will not yield particularly stellar comments about that outfit either. Especially from electric flyers.

Looks like DP went down hard.

I've had the same experience recently and will not purchase from Dave Patrick Models again.

It's one thing to have quality problems with your suppliers, however, it's quite another to 'choose' NOT to respond to what 'was' your loyal customer's.

I think it should be obvious to everyone, including DPM, that the right thing to do is to tell the public what's going on and that you have to suspend orders until you get the problem(s) solved - EVERYONE WOULD RESPECT THIS. AND, LIKELY, CONTINUE TO SUPPORT YOU!

However, to simply ignore the problem with no regard for your 'loyal' customers is unacceptable and completely unprofessional!

I'm a Q.C. manager for a manufacturing company here in the U.S. (not related to R/C) and it 'kills' me how the world of R/C manufacturing seems to operate with little or no regard to their loyal customer base, particularly when problems arise. I'd venture to say that most (not all) R/C manufacturers wouldn't last a week if they had to survive in the REAL world of manufacturing, where customer service is EVERYTHING!

I know how difficult manufacturing can be and I hope that I say this without malice - I wish no ill-will towards DPM's, but I'm confident that the 'customer' will have the final say in the future of DPM. As is fitting.

When someone takes your money and delivers no product it is theft- If DPM is having problems and taking money and not delivering product or delivering inferior product (ie seconds, and rejects) that is criminal. I am glad you put the word out because I was almost ready try the cub from them.

this all brings my thoughts back to Wild Rabit, well over a year now and they still owe me $40


Jim

Wild Rabit? Hven't heard of this outfit, what do they sell, and what happened to you re:$40.00?

After reading through this particular thread, I realize that my little problem with Super Tigre is allmost meaningless and insignificant. I bought a new St 75 and put it on my Tiger 60. It was a replacement for an OS 61 SF that needs a bearing replacement.

Anyway, I put the ST 75 on the Tiger 60 and flew it. After about, oh, 5 or 6 flights, the thing started making a ringing noise like a small bell was inside of the plane. I landed it and tried to find out what was ringing. It turns out that the baffle inside the sealed muffler came apart and was rattling inside.

I called Super Tiger and told them about this. They immediately sent me a new muffler. Good, right? Well, after 3 flights, the thing started to 'ring' again, and again, the baffle came loose inside the muffler. I called them again, and their suggestion was to get a tuned pipe and forget the stock muffler. They even gave me a rcommended part number from Macs. So, I ordered the parts they recommended, and got them in about a week later. Turns out that the muffler they recommended was a baffle-less version (essentially a straight pipe) which would have been way to noisy for our field (or for anybody else's for that matter unless you are in the middle of the desert). I had already spent about 80 bucks for the header and muffler combination but had to go out and buy another muffler, this time one with a baffle (also needed the back pressure for fuel feed). I could have taken the combination of the engine, mufflers both of them, and the header, and bought a new OS engine.

Contact with Super Tigre to tell them that they made a mistake made no difference. I am stuck with a muffler that I cannot use and a tuned pipe replacement for a defective design. What a deal.

DS.

I was going to get one of his Ultimates. But not now.

Thanks for posting this and getting the word out. You saved me money!

Please keep this alive so others can see it.

NI

One of the guys at my field has been trying to order a Super Cub from him for over a year now. Never in stock, and if there is a waiting list, he's not getting called when a batch comes in.

I had a similar problem with an outfit called "Robot Birds". After placing an order on their website I waited for the gear (about £300 worth) to arrive.
When I rang them I was told that they had no record of my order. However, they had removed the money from my Visa account!!

It took several emails and two phone calls (during which I got every excuse under the sun) to get the money credited. Needless to say they will NOT be getting any more orders from myself.

Thanks to the internet's super-sonic word of mouth, good companys flourish and bad ones die quickly. Bye-Bye DPM.

Yak

I suspect as long as they have glossy ads in magazines they'll continue taking in money.

Yep. I hear that. Evidently, DPM has some faithful customers who are getting all the best ones. They seem to keep them in business.

Dave Olson

When I started looking for my first giant scale plane, my LHS had two DPM offerings in stock; an Extra 330L and the bigger Edge 540. having seen the fancy ads in the mags, I was almost ready to buy one, but couldnt decide which. I finally decided on the Extra, and asked (as I always do) to open the box and check the contents. Upon opening the box, I found what was, without a doubt, the sorriest constructed plane I had seen thus far. The covering was wrinkled to the point of actually being creased in places, several of the fuselage stringers weren't even glued in places, the cowl had chips in the paint and the color didnt even come CLOSE to matching the yellow covering. One elevator was severely warped, etc. etc. etc. I boxed that one back up and decided to check on the Edge... same deal, with all sorts of problems. Honestly, that's the last time I have even considered anything from DPM, and after reading several threads on their LACK of customer service, I am sure glad. But, to be fair about the customer service situation, DPM is NOT the only company that seems to be lacking in that department. Seems like pulling teeth to get service from SEVERAL of the big companies. This is PRECISELY the reason that I rarely order anything direct from a manufacturer, or even from an online hobby shop. If I order it through my LHS, I can inspect it BEFORE I take delivery of it, and if there's a problem, the shop has to deal with it, not me.

Question:

Why was the subject/title of this thread changed from

"Advice: Don’t buy a Dave Patrick Model"

To

"Why I won't buy any DPM products again"

Did Dave Patrick complain? Or someone from that company?

The answer to that could prove to be enlightening. [sm=wink_smile.gif]

NI

You know - all of the stories of ARF's that are barely built, and terribly covered - what factories are these planes coming out of? I mean seriously - have any of you gotten a modern-day ARF that wasn't pretty decent out of the box? The overseas factories do pretty good jobs on most everythig I have seen lately, at least on the construction side of the house. Packaging and shipping are usually pretty good too - even on the CMP and no name Green Models/WillHobby stuff. Some of them may not fly worth anything, but the build is there, even if I decide to do some reinforcing/re-engineering.

To hear horror stories of planes that are barely glued together, paint that doesn't match, rusted landing gear that breaks broken and chipped, covering so badly wrinkled that it is creased - if anything, covering is one thing that these overseas factories are doing better than most (too bad they're doing it with chinakote that doesn't stay ironed down- but initial application is pretty good).

All that being said - the dPM models have to be built at the worst of all of the factories over there for the quality control and end product to be as bad as these reports on RCU are stating. Then the customer is being charged a premium price for sub par product.

I think the change was appropriate. I don't cotton to someone telling me what not to buy, however I am more than willing to hear someone else's expeience. I can make my own decision.

It appears that the original poster edited it. I doubt there's any big conspiracy.

The mods may have asked him to tone it down a bit. There have been too many posts starting out with words and phrases like, Don't by this trash or This plane is junk,when the person posting the message had a bad experience that wasn't necessarily a general consensus. This one seems to be a legitimate gripe though. The title is plain enough and his post was enlightening. There is no excuse for the way he was treated and I certainly won't buying anything from these guys.

Ditto

This thread just reminded me that I ordered a couple sets of 3.5" wheels from them last July. I was told 3 weeks later that they would be in stock soon and my order would be filled. Soon must a couple of years since I still haven't received them. At least my card was never charged.

(After reading the replies)

OUCH! Sounds like I struck a nerve there!!

Makes me wonder why. Also, why ANYONE would want to suppress a report, just because it puts a certain product in a bad light? What's the connection with the companies?

As a consumer, I want ALL the information I can get on a product BEFORE I hand over any money. As was pointed out, it is often very hard, or impossible, to get your money back when things go bad.

How any company handles a problem, or doesn't handle one, speaks volumes about them. If I can find out how problems are handled BEFORE buying from them, all the better. And someone trying to hide, or alter, a bad report is a giant red warning flag.

There's been too many of these little companies springing up that take your money and then ether refuse to refund your money when something proves to be bad, or worse, they disappear and then reappear under a different name.

The bad companies, with bad products, could be why there are so many bad reports. So, it's not that there are too many bad reports, it goes back to a bad company, and/or dealer, peddling inferior quality merchandise . Unless a person is one of these, they will welcome ALL news on a product.

If a person gets what was supposed to be there and it performs as was promised, he doesn't complain. He is too busy enjoying his new plane, or whatever he bought.

All this is what is called 'using ALL the information, so that YOU can make an informed decision'. It's still you making the decision, just a better informed decision.

And I (to use one posters phrase) "don't cotten to" anyone trying to hide the information that is needed for a decision.

As for, who was the one that actually changed the title, the author, nor any moderator, has come forward to say, or to offer any reason why it was done as of now.

Side Note:
I wasn't aware that anyone other than a moderator could change a thread title.
If a person can do it, how do you actually go about changing your thread title?

And as for the general consensus about Dave Patrick Models, I haven't seen a RECENT positive report. The reports from a couple of years ago were ALL great and glowing reports about his planes. That's why I wanted one of his Ultimate BiPlanes. It was said to be the best. Who doesn't want the best? But with these latest reports, not just this one, it appears DPM WAS good, but has gone bad.

ONE LAST THING;
I don't mean to step on any flyers or modelers or an Honest dealers toes, or feelings. And I wish all of these a Great and Wonderful, Merry Christmas.

However, any dishonest dealer, or company, is fair game. He should clean up his act, especially before and during the Christmas season.

NI