Hello Fellow Tankers!

Finally got around to doing some testing on the motors. I tested the white endbell Suntechs, the black endbell and Graupner Speed 400s. Ran them each outside of and then hooked up to a newly broken in gearbox with a Tiger sprocket. For measuring volts, amps and watts I used my [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLMV0&P=ML]Watts Up Meter[/link] and for revolutions one of these .


OK, battery is hooked direct to motors in all tests, it was a freshly charged Venom 3600. Did not have the ability to supply exact voltage via a rheostat and didn't feel like opening up a running tank for these tests, later.

Suntech white endbell motor by itself:
.25A 8.33V 1.9W @ 11079RPMs

Black endbell motor by itself:
.49A 8.25V 3.9W @ 16200RPMs

Graupner Speed400 motor by itself:
.50A 8.16V 3.9W @ 18500RPMs

Now each motor was hooked to the same just broken in with toothpaste gearbox - dry. RPMs were now measured against a Tiger sprocket, not the pinion.

Suntech white endbell motor:
.45A 8.16V 3.9W @ 268RPMs

Black endbell motor:
.64A 8.09V 5.0W @ 380RPMs

Graupner Speed400 motor:
.73A 8.05V 6.5W @ 439RPMs

Final test was to add some Penn Reel Lube to the gearbox to lubricate the gears.

Graupner Speed 400 motor:

.58A 8.02V 4.7W @ 443RPMs


So what motors are the white Suntechs and black 385s? I think we need to regulate the voltage to replicate the specs right?

If you get a 268 rpm reading it is pretty scale for a sprocket of 55 mm o.d.
55*pi*268=46,307 mm/min
46,307 *6^-0.5=2.778 Km/h and the Tiger's scale speed should be 38/16=2.375 Km/h
In other words, your reading implies a 1:1 speed of 44.448 Km/h. As you've made the tests without chains, etc. I assume that the maximum speed of a HL Tiger should be very close to the real max. speed of a Tiger or even a bit slower.

James that's funny because everyone always thought the white endbell motors where faster
Suntech white endbell motor by itself:
.25A 8.33V 1.9W @ 11079RPMs

Black endbell motor by itself:
.49A 8.25V 3.9W @ 16200RPMs

The white motors might seem faster because they are more efficent of a motor? Looks like if you don't want the esc to blow in your tanks the white endbell motor is the motor to use as it draws way less amps,,,, In fact from your specs on these 2 motors the white one draws just about as half as much as the black one...so when using the black motors its like running almost 4 white end cap motors mybe this is why the fets blow all the time... white motors would make it much safer to not blo0w the esc's out..

From your tests it looks like if you want to stay with a stock HL gear train, then the Sunteck white are the way to go. The other motors will require gear reductions to get them back to scale speed.

I think I was one of the people who posted that the black can motors were slower too!

Ok, for you electronics gurus out there, what do I need to make/buy to vary the voltage from my battery pack to the motor? I tried one of those household sliding light switches but it didn't work.

I can't seem to find the spec sheets anymore on the net. As I recall, we had a couple to choose from but we weren't sure which was the right one.

Swath, you need an adjustable power supply. I have an Agilent but they are kinda spendy. May I suggest you just used D cells? This will give you testpoints for 1.5, 3, 4.5, 6, and 7.5 volts. should be enough to get a decent data set so you can match it up.

I'm having a little trouble with this. I believe this is the 'possible' spec sheet for our motors.

http://www.cnmotor.cn/en-p3.htm

To look at the chart, none of the 385's operate below 4 Volts which ours obviously do. The current ratings are all much lower than what you measured and they are applying up to 24 volts to get them to do that. I am assuming the no-load values were taken at the nominal voltage they call out. Something is not jiving.

D cells will work, thanks!

Was going through my parts bag for my current Tiger project and pulled out the original motors and gearboxes. This tank was a non-smoker I bought cheap off ebay. It must have been one of the first ones because the hull did not have any mounts or holes for the S&S electronics. It has black capped motors that say Suntech on them and yellow plastic gears.

Motor tested by itself:
.47A 7.93V 3.6W @ 15000RPMs

In the plastic gearbox with Tiger Sprocket:
.45A 7.90V 3.5W @ 378 RPMs

In the metal gearbox with Tiger Sprocket:
.60A 7.85V 4.7W @ 365 RPMs



[link=http://www.suntechmotor.com/showroom.html?pro=1&pid=47089]Suntech 385[/link]

[link=http://stdevltd.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008800058797/pdtl/DC-motor/1001348552/DC-Motors.htm]Specs[/link]

[link=http://stdevltd.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008800058797/pdtl/DC-motor/1001348548/DC-Motors.htm]More specs[/link]

So from your spec sheets these are the possible motors

SR-385S-2073
SR-385S-16115
SR385SPH-16140
SR385SPH-2465

None of these are even close to your testing. Current draw is substantially less and voltage ratings are much too hi.
Oddly enough this motor by Suntech looks to be a dead on match.
SR380SPH-4045
It is however a 380 sized motor. Are we sure ours are 385's?

Well the reason I call them 385s is because of the design of the endbell, the plastic part. On Mabuchis website the 380s are different from the 385s so I concluded that the endbell design was an industry standard for the 385. I could be wrong but I have seen nothing to prove otherwise yet. Either way we know these are 380/385/400 sized motors and we know the manufacturer, Suntech. There's gotta be more of them listed somewhere. The whole point of this is to establish exactly which motor we have to determine if there is anything better out there.

Hi they are 380 sized motors.

Ok, why? 380, 385 and 400 all have the same dimensions what's different elsewhere?

That's what I thought. I heard they were 385's on this site, and I've just been repeating that without actually having proof. Keep in mind when looking at the bell that the Suntech's are cheap Chinese motors and are probably designed to look like the expensive Japanese Mabuchi's.

I propose that the motors are these;
SR380SPH-4045

They are designed for a 7.2V nom voltage, operate down to very low voltages, same can size, and they match within tolerances the data you printed above.

Am I wrong?

That matches the specs on the black can motors more or less. Which one is the white can, the slower speed motor? Is it this one: SR385SPH-2465 ???

If the picture is an accurate one of the motors the endbell doesn't match either one.

That does it, I'm emailing HL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you know their e-mail?

No, they have a website though... [link=http://www.henglongtoys.net/eng/lx.html]Heng Long Toys[/link]

I asked Murphy once but I don't remember why we didn't find out.

a higher # motor in the same size can should have a hotter armiture so when you test a 400 it should draw more current than a 380.

Like with my boats the 550 size motor can is the same as a 600 motor but it's armiture is different and the 600 motors draw more current and are faster motors.

Gearbox Testing Update!

Black Can Heng Long High RPM Motors and Freshly broken in Gearboxes with White Lithium Grease for lubricant. Motors and gearboxes were broken in with toothpaste for 2 hours running directly off 7.2v battery. Then 30 minutes submerged in the sink while running to clean them up and break in the motors as someone mentioned on here awhile ago.

Black Capped Motor in High Mount Metal Gearbox turning Tiger Sprocket hooked directly to battery:
.32A 7.41V 2.3W @ 386RPMs

Black Capped Motor in Low Mount Metal Gearbox turning Tiger Sprocket hooked directly to battery:
.28A 7.36V 2.0W @ 386RPMs

Graupner Speed400 in High Mount Gearbox (same as first test)
.40A 7.36V 2.9W @ 390RPMs


Have a question for you motor experts. Don't know how to measure torque, I remember that the Speed400s when installed in a Pershing was 2.5 times faster then my fastest tank at the Time, a black capped, plastic track/gearbox Panther. The Pershing smoked it! The Pershing weighed nearly twice as much and has a smaller sprocket. These tests are run with no load. Can we logically deduce that the even though the Black Capped Suntechs and Speed400s performed nearly the same in a no load situation that the Speed400 would be superior in a loaded one or is there a way to test?

Swath,
You need a dynomometerr to measure the torque. While the no-load charachteristics are a good place to start I think you need to develop a torqu curve to determine how it will run at different speeds/loads.
As an example, here's a typical torque curve from an electric motor (not the ones we are using but it was the quickest I could find for this post). These will vary greatly from motor to motor. It would be interesting to see the torque curves for both motors.

hey perry can you give any advice on these motors had my eye on them for a while and need your expert view in particular the 385's
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...doy=20m10#spec
cheers mate

Hey Perry, Did HL ever write back?

How do you build a dyno, like a car with rollers? I though of just leaving the upper hull off and attaching the Watts Up Meter to the motors and run the tank in place on my hobby mat while holding it in place and measuring the data? Poor man's dyno?

FV432, me thinks that 380 motor will blow your board without water cooled transistors! You could be the first with a functional radiator in your tank! Go for the bragging rights mate!

i'm over the bubbly transistors swath ,not water cooled but gel packs much better and the cooling fan is no longer required

I want to bump this thread and get other tankers input on their motor and gearbox testing. Now, ssshhhhh! I ordered one each of the new gearboxes today, cannot let the wife see me typing this! One for the Tiger (for future use with El Mod through Blitz) and the Stug Gearbox for my PZIII.

Not planning on changing the motors in the PZIII, just to break them in, take measurements and install.

Now the Tiger is a different matter! I want slightly more power and lots more torque then the black can motors that come with the gearbox. El Mod runs the motors at 5.5V even with the Afterburner right? If that's so then it might stand to reason to get motors optimized for 6v instead of 7.2v right?

I was looking at the Jamara and Permax 480s which are not available in the USA. We can get the Graupner "long can" 400s which seem a little more powerful. All are rated at 7.2v. Graupner has a speed400 in 6v and 7.2v that will work. The 6v motor should deliver more power but my question is, will the transistors on the stock HL board be affected by these motors (any motors) when using El Mod and the Afterburner?

hi guys its all very confusing still dont no which is the best setup you electromagicians sort it out and when you no which is the best for the tiger/best for panzer3/best for pershing could you put a post up saying which is the best other wise everyone will be just like me derrr im not very bright but i can lift heavy weights or have the chinesse done it all for us and maybe we are just wasting money buying all these metal upgrades




best regards pete

Pete, what gearbox? I've established that if you want speed, the stock gearbox with Graupner Speed400s cooled with a fan and or heatsink is the way to go. I have those motors in my BullDog. The Pershing runs great with the stock gearboxes and the white endbell Suntech motors.

This rest of this post, my part in it, will focus on the best gearbox and motor combination with the new 3-1 gearboxes and then in conjunction with El Mod.

hi James. what i need is a very hi-torque motor that is scale speed i have a very heavy panzer3 which as full metal upgrades i.e. gears tracks full wheels suspention+other metal mods such as schurzen exhaust, it as standard metal gearboxes with white cap motors it has good scale speed but slows on steep inclines would like more torque to get over this which do you think is the best solution it 3:1 gearboxes but which motor white cap with 3:1 i feel would be to slow for scale speed but should climb the side of a house there must be somthing out there that will work ,i.e.scale speed and good climbing ability.I dont have to much money left after the boss has taken her share having had to retier early due to ill health both my knees are shot i cant buy this motor or that motor just to try them out i will have the same problem on my tiger1 that im starting the turret that i have modified weighs about 1.5 lbs and ive not finished it yet+rest of metal tracks wheels suspension intenal supports will be even heaver than the panzer3. I saw some where an all metal 1/16 abrams I think it is made in china what do they use. Could it be we are looking for a solution and there may be one at hand



best regards pete