DL-50 engine
09-03-2008 | 05:11 AM
#2801
RE: DL-50 engine
Thanks Super. I'll look for a deep drive socket. I already have one for the spark plug, but evidentally it's not "deep" enough.
Elderair, I'd be afraid to use a piston "stop" tool for fear of damaging the piston, con rod, wrist pin etc. I know they use them on glow engines, but I just don't like the idea on my $390.00 engine that I paid for my self!
Besides, I already have the engine apart! What I'll do is insert bolts into the hub and use something across the bolts to hold the hub while I turn with the socket.
I think another call to Bob at DL USA is in order, but I'll inquire about the anerobic sealant for the case halves.
I'll keep everybody informed so we can all become DL repair experts.
Tim
Elderair, I'd be afraid to use a piston "stop" tool for fear of damaging the piston, con rod, wrist pin etc. I know they use them on glow engines, but I just don't like the idea on my $390.00 engine that I paid for my self!
Besides, I already have the engine apart! What I'll do is insert bolts into the hub and use something across the bolts to hold the hub while I turn with the socket. I think another call to Bob at DL USA is in order, but I'll inquire about the anerobic sealant for the case halves.
I'll keep everybody informed so we can all become DL repair experts.
Tim
09-03-2008 | 05:25 AM
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From: El Reno, OK
RE: DL-50 engine
Nice going on the procedure, Tim. Particularly the "must have" info... like the deep socket (it also has to be VERY thin wall), and the case sealant discoveries to come! Keep on truckin' !!
09-03-2008 | 05:30 AM
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From: Modesto,
CA
RE: DL-50 engine
hey Tim
remember to make a note of where the magnet is at the time of disasembly,or you might end up changing the timing,just a reminder,i know you already know what you're doing but simply wanted to point that out to you
remember to make a note of where the magnet is at the time of disasembly,or you might end up changing the timing,just a reminder,i know you already know what you're doing but simply wanted to point that out to you
09-03-2008 | 06:44 AM
#2804
RE: DL-50 engine
Oh yea, thanks Switch.
I was looking at that last night. I was wondering if the drive hub with the magnet is keyed or something. Looks like it's exactly at 9:00 with the piston at BDC.
I am going to call Bob at DL USA again today and I'll ask about this.
Thanks for the reminder!
Tim
I was looking at that last night. I was wondering if the drive hub with the magnet is keyed or something. Looks like it's exactly at 9:00 with the piston at BDC.
I am going to call Bob at DL USA again today and I'll ask about this.
Thanks for the reminder!
Tim
09-03-2008 | 07:44 AM
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From: Modesto,
CA
RE: DL-50 engine
You're welcome Tim i just thought you may of forgoten about that little detail,well i sent you an email with the info that might be of help for seting the timing,as far as i know the timing is set at 28 degrees at TDC,here's the link for more information about seting the timing http://www.rccdi.com/INSTRUCTIONS%20...0ver%202.0.pdf
09-03-2008 | 10:05 AM
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From: Silverdale,
WA
RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: krproton
Who's Ralph Cunningham? From Happy Days? (Sorry )
Who's Ralph Cunningham? From Happy Days? (Sorry
)
He used to be active in this forum, but doesn't come here any more (although he is on the "other" forum that can't be mentioned here (the one with the Giants that Fly...PM me for more info).
[link=http://www.rcignitions.com//index.php?option=com_contact&task=view&contact_id= 1&Itemid=31]HERE [/link]is his contact info. Or email [email protected] .
I realize you are fixing the engine yourself, but I just wanted to provide some clarity.
09-03-2008 | 07:01 PM
#2807
RE: DL-50 engine
Well guys,
here's the deal;
Switch, thanks for the info on setting the timing, but the crank and hub are keyed. That's the good news and the bad news. I got the nut off with a deep well socket, pressed off the hub with a puller, but then came the trouble. The key was frozen into the crankshaft. It's not one of those nice, hardened, rounded woodruff keys like you see on an O.S. engine that drop out and fall onto the floor when you take off the drive washer. No! The key was just some kind of rather soft metal that was absolutely positively frozen into the crank. I tried everything - heating, tapping, oil. Then I figured if I could use a dremel with a fiber reinforced cutoff wheel to grind away the key enough to extract the crankshaft from the case, I could then, with crank in hand, grind enough of the key remains to allow it to just fall out.
Wrong!
I ground off the key well enough, extracted the crank easily, then proceeded to grind away the rest of the key out of the slot. Not so easy. I can't tell what's key and what's crank. Hopefully, I quit before I ruined the crank, but I called Ralph Cunningham and he said he could probably use an end mill to grind out the rest of the key if I send him the assembly. So, it's getting boxed up and sent out first thing tomorrow.
Oh, and by the way, yes, the front bearing is trashed (apparently from the crash). I bet the case is good too, just the bearing.
Well, won't have any more info until Ralph receives the parts.
And if the crank can't be salvaged, I need Ralph's assistance anyway because the bottom end of the con rod is held to the crankshaft with some sort of rivit that's pressed on.
Thanks for the tip BTerry.
'Til next time!
Tim
here's the deal;
Switch, thanks for the info on setting the timing, but the crank and hub are keyed. That's the good news and the bad news. I got the nut off with a deep well socket, pressed off the hub with a puller, but then came the trouble. The key was frozen into the crankshaft. It's not one of those nice, hardened, rounded woodruff keys like you see on an O.S. engine that drop out and fall onto the floor when you take off the drive washer. No! The key was just some kind of rather soft metal that was absolutely positively frozen into the crank. I tried everything - heating, tapping, oil. Then I figured if I could use a dremel with a fiber reinforced cutoff wheel to grind away the key enough to extract the crankshaft from the case, I could then, with crank in hand, grind enough of the key remains to allow it to just fall out.
Wrong!
I ground off the key well enough, extracted the crank easily, then proceeded to grind away the rest of the key out of the slot. Not so easy. I can't tell what's key and what's crank. Hopefully, I quit before I ruined the crank, but I called Ralph Cunningham and he said he could probably use an end mill to grind out the rest of the key if I send him the assembly. So, it's getting boxed up and sent out first thing tomorrow.
Oh, and by the way, yes, the front bearing is trashed (apparently from the crash). I bet the case is good too, just the bearing.
Well, won't have any more info until Ralph receives the parts.
And if the crank can't be salvaged, I need Ralph's assistance anyway because the bottom end of the con rod is held to the crankshaft with some sort of rivit that's pressed on.
Thanks for the tip BTerry.
'Til next time!
Tim
09-03-2008 | 08:00 PM
#2808
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From: Western Australia, AUSTRALIA
RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: krproton
Well guys,
here's the deal;
Switch, thanks for the info on setting the timing, but the crank and hub are keyed. That's the good news and the bad news. I got the nut off with a deep well socket, pressed off the hub with a puller, but then came the trouble. The key was frozen into the crankshaft. It's not one of those nice, hardened, rounded woodruff keys like you see on an O.S. engine that drop out and fall onto the floor when you take off the drive washer. No! The key was just some kind of rather soft metal that was absolutely positively frozen into the crank. I tried everything - heating, tapping, oil. Then I figured if I could use a dremel with a fiber reinforced cutoff wheel to grind away the key enough to extract the crankshaft from the case, I could then, with crank in hand, grind enough of the key remains to allow it to just fall out.
Wrong!
I ground off the key well enough, extracted the crank easily, then proceeded to grind away the rest of the key out of the slot. Not so easy. I can't tell what's key and what's crank. Hopefully, I quit before I ruined the crank, but I called Ralph Cunningham and he said he could probably use an end mill to grind out the rest of the key if I send him the assembly. So, it's getting boxed up and sent out first thing tomorrow.
Oh, and by the way, yes, the front bearing is trashed (apparently from the crash). I bet the case is good too, just the bearing.
Well, won't have any more info until Ralph receives the parts.
And if the crank can't be salvaged, I need Ralph's assistance anyway because the bottom end of the con rod is held to the crankshaft with some sort of rivit that's pressed on.
Thanks for the tip BTerry.
'Til next time!
Tim
Well guys,
here's the deal;
Switch, thanks for the info on setting the timing, but the crank and hub are keyed. That's the good news and the bad news. I got the nut off with a deep well socket, pressed off the hub with a puller, but then came the trouble. The key was frozen into the crankshaft. It's not one of those nice, hardened, rounded woodruff keys like you see on an O.S. engine that drop out and fall onto the floor when you take off the drive washer. No! The key was just some kind of rather soft metal that was absolutely positively frozen into the crank. I tried everything - heating, tapping, oil. Then I figured if I could use a dremel with a fiber reinforced cutoff wheel to grind away the key enough to extract the crankshaft from the case, I could then, with crank in hand, grind enough of the key remains to allow it to just fall out.
Wrong!
I ground off the key well enough, extracted the crank easily, then proceeded to grind away the rest of the key out of the slot. Not so easy. I can't tell what's key and what's crank. Hopefully, I quit before I ruined the crank, but I called Ralph Cunningham and he said he could probably use an end mill to grind out the rest of the key if I send him the assembly. So, it's getting boxed up and sent out first thing tomorrow.
Oh, and by the way, yes, the front bearing is trashed (apparently from the crash). I bet the case is good too, just the bearing.
Well, won't have any more info until Ralph receives the parts.
And if the crank can't be salvaged, I need Ralph's assistance anyway because the bottom end of the con rod is held to the crankshaft with some sort of rivit that's pressed on.
Thanks for the tip BTerry.
'Til next time!
Tim
New crank for DL50 comes with conrod already fitted, you cant buy them seperate anyway.
Cheers
09-03-2008 | 08:35 PM
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From: Winston Salem,
NC
RE: DL-50 engine
The reason that the keyway is hard to get off is because it is lock tight in, they do not use lock tight but some thing like it, you will also find that the bearings are glue in as well, you will need to use a temparture rated lock tight when installing the new bearings in the hub, if you don't you will wish you did,
Good luck
PS: Do not feel bad the only way to get the keyway off is to destroy it,
Good luck
PS: Do not feel bad the only way to get the keyway off is to destroy it,
09-03-2008 | 08:50 PM
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From: Western Australia, AUSTRALIA
RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: Bosco2
The reason that the keyway is hard to get off is because it is lock tight in, they do not use lock tight but some thing like it, you will also find that the bearings are glue in as well, you will need to use a temparture rated lock tight when installing the new bearings in the hub, if you don't you will wish you did,
Good luck
PS: Do not feel bad the only way to get the keyway off is to destroy it,
The reason that the keyway is hard to get off is because it is lock tight in, they do not use lock tight but some thing like it, you will also find that the bearings are glue in as well, you will need to use a temparture rated lock tight when installing the new bearings in the hub, if you don't you will wish you did,
Good luck
PS: Do not feel bad the only way to get the keyway off is to destroy it,
Think the number of the loctite is #620 o #609 few different ones but dont use too much, only need a minimal amount. It is very thin and will wick in.
Loctite High Temp Bearing and Sleeve Fit Retaining Compound
https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/d..._Compounds.htm
EDITED - Update loctite #
09-03-2008 | 09:05 PM
#2811
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From: Winston Salem,
NC
RE: DL-50 engine
Thank you for the support on this,
When reassembly of the engine I do not think it would be necessary to lock tight the key way back in nor the hub, would you agree?
When reassembly of the engine I do not think it would be necessary to lock tight the key way back in nor the hub, would you agree?
09-03-2008 | 09:23 PM
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From: Western Australia, AUSTRALIA
RE: DL-50 engine
They are a pretty tight press fit, so should be alright, but cant hurt to use a very small amount to be "sure to be sure"
The factory does it, so we do it too. Better safe than sorry. Does make them harder to remove...but not something that has to be done to too often for most.
Loctite is a must on the prop shaft though that bolts onto the end of the crank & retains the prop hub.
Cheers
The factory does it, so we do it too. Better safe than sorry. Does make them harder to remove...but not something that has to be done to too often for most.
Loctite is a must on the prop shaft though that bolts onto the end of the crank & retains the prop hub.
Cheers
09-03-2008 | 10:37 PM
#2813
RE: DL-50 engine
Hey guys,
thanks for the info.
Okay, so now that I know the crankshaft comes with the con rod already installed, I think rather than sending my crank for repair, for the price, it will probably be the same price just to buy a new crank assy. (and faster). I will also then need a rear bearing.
So, if I get a new crank assy. and rear bearing, and I already have a front case and front bearing coming, what about the woodruf key? That must come with the crankshaft assy, right?
Then, dlenginesaustralia, will you please tell me exactly which loctite I need? Thanks for the link, but there are several on that page.
Which one do I need?
Then, I install the bearings on the crank, add the locker compound, install in front case with more compound to lock bearings to case, right?
Then, I'm good to go, right? Just install piston on new con rod and button the whole thing back up, right?
Tim
thanks for the info.
Okay, so now that I know the crankshaft comes with the con rod already installed, I think rather than sending my crank for repair, for the price, it will probably be the same price just to buy a new crank assy. (and faster). I will also then need a rear bearing.
So, if I get a new crank assy. and rear bearing, and I already have a front case and front bearing coming, what about the woodruf key? That must come with the crankshaft assy, right?
Then, dlenginesaustralia, will you please tell me exactly which loctite I need? Thanks for the link, but there are several on that page.
Which one do I need?
Then, I install the bearings on the crank, add the locker compound, install in front case with more compound to lock bearings to case, right?
Then, I'm good to go, right? Just install piston on new con rod and button the whole thing back up, right?
Tim
09-03-2008 | 11:10 PM
#2814
My Feedback: (2)
RE: DL-50 engine
Tim here is a link to Loctite. It has links to all of their retaining products for bearings with properties for them. I like the 648, and 620. I'm no pro, just my opinion.
[link=http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_us/hs.xsl/1554_USE_HTML.htm?countryCode=us&BU=ut&parentredDo tUID=0000000GHE&redDotUID=productfinder¶m1=pag eIndex%3D0%7Caction%3Dsearch%7Cmode%3Dadvanced%7Ck eyword%3D%7Cy%3D355%7Cx%3D0%7CapplicationRedDotUID %3D000000026R%7CsubsubapplicationRedDotUID%3D%7Csu bapplicationRedDotUID%3D000000028Z%7CbrandRedDotUI D%3D0000000389%7C]Loctite[/link]
[link=http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_us/hs.xsl/1554_USE_HTML.htm?countryCode=us&BU=ut&parentredDo tUID=0000000GHE&redDotUID=productfinder¶m1=pag eIndex%3D0%7Caction%3Dsearch%7Cmode%3Dadvanced%7Ck eyword%3D%7Cy%3D355%7Cx%3D0%7CapplicationRedDotUID %3D000000026R%7CsubsubapplicationRedDotUID%3D%7Csu bapplicationRedDotUID%3D000000028Z%7CbrandRedDotUI D%3D0000000389%7C]Loctite[/link]
09-03-2008 | 11:40 PM
#2815
My Feedback: (221)
RE: DL-50 engine
Flew my DL 50 equipped Yak again today. On the second flight, coming out of a maneuver, I lost all throttle control. It was turning too fast to land, but not fast enough to maneuver very well (just a little above idle). I wound up hitting the tall grass just off the runway, tore the gear off, and broke the prop, and the 'retracting' gear hit the port aileron stripping the gears in the servo. Didn't even scratch the cowl, and no other damage. Very fortunate. Turns out that the screw that holds the throttle arm on the butterfly had backed off and allowed the arm to slip off past the cam. Another item to add to my pre-flight I guess. Check those carburetor arms guys. I'll make sure to have Locktite on them, but this is a first for me.
09-04-2008 | 12:16 AM
#2816
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From: Western Australia, AUSTRALIA
RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: krproton
Hey guys,
thanks for the info.
Okay, so now that I know the crankshaft comes with the con rod already installed, I think rather than sending my crank for repair, for the price, it will probably be the same price just to buy a new crank assy. (and faster). I will also then need a rear bearing.
So, if I get a new crank assy. and rear bearing, and I already have a front case and front bearing coming, what about the woodruf key? That must come with the crankshaft assy, right?
Then, dlenginesaustralia, will you please tell me exactly which loctite I need? Thanks for the link, but there are several on that page.
Which one do I need?
Then, I install the bearings on the crank, add the locker compound, install in front case with more compound to lock bearings to case, right?
Then, I'm good to go, right? Just install piston on new con rod and button the whole thing back up, right?
Tim
Hey guys,
thanks for the info.
Okay, so now that I know the crankshaft comes with the con rod already installed, I think rather than sending my crank for repair, for the price, it will probably be the same price just to buy a new crank assy. (and faster). I will also then need a rear bearing.
So, if I get a new crank assy. and rear bearing, and I already have a front case and front bearing coming, what about the woodruf key? That must come with the crankshaft assy, right?
Then, dlenginesaustralia, will you please tell me exactly which loctite I need? Thanks for the link, but there are several on that page.
Which one do I need?
Then, I install the bearings on the crank, add the locker compound, install in front case with more compound to lock bearings to case, right?
Then, I'm good to go, right? Just install piston on new con rod and button the whole thing back up, right?
Tim
Woodruf key comes with the prop hub kit , but ask your local, they might be able to sell it seperate for you.
Dont forgot to install the spacer sleeve back on the crank shaft when putting back together either. Ive got one to do in the next few days so will get some pics together and post them up.
Cheers
Scott.
09-04-2008 | 03:49 AM
#2817
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From: Oxfordshire, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
Flew my DL 50 equipped Yak again today. On the second flight, coming out of a maneuver, I lost all throttle control. It was turning too fast to land, but not fast enough to maneuver very well (just a little above idle). I wound up hitting the tall grass just off the runway, tore the gear off, and broke the prop, and the 'retracting' gear hit the port aileron stripping the gears in the servo. Didn't even scratch the cowl, and no other damage. Very fortunate. Turns out that the screw that holds the throttle arm on the butterfly had backed off and allowed the arm to slip off past the cam. Another item to add to my pre-flight I guess. Check those carburetor arms guys. I'll make sure to have Locktite on them, but this is a first for me.
Flew my DL 50 equipped Yak again today. On the second flight, coming out of a maneuver, I lost all throttle control. It was turning too fast to land, but not fast enough to maneuver very well (just a little above idle). I wound up hitting the tall grass just off the runway, tore the gear off, and broke the prop, and the 'retracting' gear hit the port aileron stripping the gears in the servo. Didn't even scratch the cowl, and no other damage. Very fortunate. Turns out that the screw that holds the throttle arm on the butterfly had backed off and allowed the arm to slip off past the cam. Another item to add to my pre-flight I guess. Check those carburetor arms guys. I'll make sure to have Locktite on them, but this is a first for me.
09-04-2008 | 01:26 PM
#2819
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From: El Reno, OK
RE: DL-50 engine
ram - not picking on you - please don't misinterpret....
Many of us HARP every chance we can about the necessity of a TX-actuated kill device on a gasser. It is beyond my understanding why ANYONE, for ANY reason, would want to run one of these reaper-bladed-paint-shakers without such a fundamental safety device. This isn't about perofrmance - but SAFETY.
Many of us HARP every chance we can about the necessity of a TX-actuated kill device on a gasser. It is beyond my understanding why ANYONE, for ANY reason, would want to run one of these reaper-bladed-paint-shakers without such a fundamental safety device. This isn't about perofrmance - but SAFETY.
09-04-2008 | 02:45 PM
#2820
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From: Salem,
OR
RE: DL-50 engine
if you loose control of the plane in the air, unless that switch has a failsafe mechanism, it isn't going to do you much good, if you are on the ground, bystanders should be clear, and if it does go nuts it's going to get bad before you can get to a switch...
not saying it's a bad thing to have, just saying...
not saying it's a bad thing to have, just saying...
09-04-2008 | 03:07 PM
#2822
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From: Silverdale,
WA
RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: wavy777
get an igniton cut off...dont ever leave home without one...for safetys sake..all my (5) gassers use the smartf ly ign cutt of...worth every penny! or cent...lol
get an igniton cut off...dont ever leave home without one...for safetys sake..all my (5) gassers use the smartf ly ign cutt of...worth every penny! or cent...lol
09-04-2008 | 07:12 PM
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From: Western Australia, AUSTRALIA
RE: DL-50 engine
Heres one way to remove the bearings, using a heat gun & gear puller. You can also heat the whole case in a oven for a while to pop the bearings out.
We made up a simple bracket/lever out of 6mm aluminium stock to bolt to the prop hub to secure it for prop shaft removal (13mm deep socket needed)
Pics should be pretty much self explanatory. Trick is to keep the case hot, and the front bearing & crank will come out pretty easy.
The front bearing in this engine has been rotating in the case - hence all the black alum/gunk grease. Bearing itself is OK and hasnt had much time on it.
The main bearing on the crank shaft is on pretty tight and will take some heat on the bearing to remove, or you could try an aerosol can of the freeze type spray to chill the crank, instead of warming the bearing. Be patient and work it but by bit, with a good amount of heat and it will slide off.
Part 1
We made up a simple bracket/lever out of 6mm aluminium stock to bolt to the prop hub to secure it for prop shaft removal (13mm deep socket needed)
Pics should be pretty much self explanatory. Trick is to keep the case hot, and the front bearing & crank will come out pretty easy.
The front bearing in this engine has been rotating in the case - hence all the black alum/gunk grease. Bearing itself is OK and hasnt had much time on it.
The main bearing on the crank shaft is on pretty tight and will take some heat on the bearing to remove, or you could try an aerosol can of the freeze type spray to chill the crank, instead of warming the bearing. Be patient and work it but by bit, with a good amount of heat and it will slide off.
Part 1
