I am looking for a 40 size kit to build. I have been flying for 15 months, starting with a T28, building and flying a scratch built electric, now flying a 40 size low wing tail dragger and a Eflite Pulse 25 electric. I have some extra servos and the offer of a OS46ax for very cheap (lot of guys at my club have moved onto more powerful motors and have 46s sitting around). I have an itch to build, and have not built a kit. I have scratch built and done built ARFs.

I have been looking the Great Planes Extra 300, the Great Planes CAP 232, and the SIG Something Extra.

I want something fun to build that has good instruction manual. Also don't want to have to invest too much time or money because the plane may not live that long due to my mediocre flying skills. I am starting to fly reverse cuban 8s and stall turns etc but my landings need work.

Want to stick with 40 size because it would fit into my car.

All opinions and advice welcome. Also, any ideas on strengthening mods especially for hard landings.

thanks

You may want to consider the GP Super Sportster, or GP Ultra Sport.

In my own oppinion, I'd go with the extra, not because I love the plane, but because it really doesn't have many bad vices. The one I had years ago flew straight as an arrow, did almost anything I asked it to and could be slowed down nicely for smooth landings, it literally didn't change direction or attitude till you told it to, but that's true about any aerobatic plane out there, none will self correct or recover. The only thing I would highly suggest is to replace the 1/8" lite ply gear plate with a 3/16 or 1/4" piece and use tri stock to epoxy it into place, I did have the fuse break in half on a really hard landing one time, but it was more of a controlled crash when that happened. You might want to make a small 1/8" doubler on the side of the fuse inside where the front of the wing saddle is, other than that, it's a great flying plane. The Cap needs the same mods as well, it's just a materials issue, not design, they use lite ply in places that require aircraft ply, nothing too big or hard to change. If you do the mods while building it, it will last many years and suffer the occasional oops when landing or dead sticking into the weeds. Don't ask, I apparently forgot that didn't refuel and took off and started to do stall turns with an exit point of about 2 feet off the deck, when it sputtered out, I basically had no runway and altitude to come around, so in the weeds is where it landed, no damage though, not even to the glass wheel pants I made for it.

You can't go wrong with the instructions or quaility of either GP plane/kit. Between the two planes the Extra is a bit better flying plane but I wonder about the engine size, they are listed as smaller planes but the .46 may be lacking in power depending on how you fly. The little SIG SE also has very good plans and instructions and the .46 fly's it very well. It too is a great build and good flying plane!! Check out some of the build threads of these planes and see what it takes to build one and what engines they are using. There must be about 200 SSE builds on here?? OK, at least 20 though!!

Don't forget the 4*40. One of the easiest building, easiest fliers out there.

I guess it's all up to what he wants, a semi scale plane, or a fun flyer, I know I had a magnum .40 abc in mine, it flew just fine, many people try to over-power a plane like it's a 3D monster, but in reality, the GP kits aren't 3D machines, so maybe just sticking to the 40-46 range will teach energy management and flying on the wing. I have the GP .40 kit sitting at my ankles waiting to be built, this will be my second kit, the first suffered from old age and abuse, but I loved the way it floated in for landings when the CG was pulled all the way back to be very neutral in response. In fact, one day, I wanted to see the slowest I could fly it, so I chopped the throttle and feed in the elevator, the next thing I know it's coming down in a harrier move and I'm working the alerions to keep it level. It was going about 2 feet forward for every 10 feet in lost altitude, but the nose stayed level and it never tip stalled, even though I was working the alerions to maintain level. I think it will be the next on the board to be built after I'm done refurbishing my Pica Jungmiester.

I would definately go with the Extra 300s. Both kits build easily, with perfect fit and instructions, but the Extra flies soo much better. It has a slower stall speed for easier landings, and is just soooo smooooth! I blew mine up with dumb thumbs years ago, but still regard it as one of the best builds and best flying planes ever. The Cap 232 had odd habits (for me). I had one with an OS 70 FS, and it flew very well, but I had to add alot of down elevator for level flying. I added down thrust to help compensate. It never landed quite right, and I blew it up on a landing. One of the pro's thinks it was radio signal loss, as I had the antenna inside the fuse, with metalic MonoKote, even though it passed preflight check fine, and made a few safe flights. It always seemed to have a bad stall at slow speed- much worse than other planes I've had, including a Hangar 9 232's.

flyingpilgrim, I like that signature. I had the same feeling with the extra, plus it being a mid mount wing, it seems to track alot cleaner through the flight envelope than my caps have in the past, just like the one in my avitar, the 1/4 scale H9 232.

I would say go with the extra I am finishing my 5th gp extra 40 now and have a build thread on here but am at a stand still due to work, maybe this week I'll be done with it, I also have the cap 232 now thats flying and it is a good plane too but it does have dihedral built into it where the extra doesn't, that cap doesn't seem to do inverted quite as well but does do it good enough though, extra is better for aerobatics from my opinion. I have also done mods along the way and I have incorporated them all into the new one that have had the best results for me, you can see them in my build post.

my first gp extra I had was built in 1996 so i've been flying them since then and as soon as one goes down i get another and put it together, I usually go ahead and buy an extra kit just in case

I guess jg95762 has not revisited yet. I'd go with the Extra also for reasons already stated.

As for your landing problem, (and I've tought a lot of people), the key is all in keeping a consistently the same landing pattern from downwind through base, final, and touchdown. This means the same place every time and a consistant airspeed at each place. As you begin to master that you'll see the landings improve. You will also then have a great feel for where to head for if your engine quits.

Thank you all!! Very helpful informatoin. I am going to go with the GP Extra 300. I was leaning that way because I like the look of the plane and the instruction manual is already downloaded on my laptop. I will most likely put a 46 in it because I am not an aggresive flyer yet. By the time I get it built I think my flying skills should be ok. I am focusing on doing more landings and getting into the repeatable pattern that Dave describes. We have had 20 mph cross winds recently and I have been able to land in those so I must be progressing.

Anyway thanks for the help. I will be looking at the many build threads to see what I can learn and then may post myself - from the standpoint of a someone relatively new.

thanks

John

Pilgrim, you should pull up some trim charts and print them out so you have an idea of why your plane is flying funny or needs a lot of radio trim on the controls. I would go look in some of the pattern web sites for the chart. I have several tacked to my walls that are turning yellow with age and I still use them. When I question an engine size I'm not thinking 3-D, I fool around with it but can't/don't really do it. Today we have some very good engines that produce a lot more power then days of old, I was thinking a .55 AX or something on those lines. There are a lot better engine choices out there today in the same size package as the smaller engines of the past. A little extra power is a good thing when learning IMAC or pattern and these are small planes that can be perfect teachers if powered correctly.

Grey beard, It's way too late to figure out what was wrong with my GP Cap, It hit hard, and there was not enough left to rebuild. I thought it was odd, as it was a beautiful build, and the wing and tail surfaces were exact as far as incidence, engine thrust set up as per instructions, etc. I fooled around a bit with CG and thrust angle for engine, but, alas, it was destroyed before I could fine tune it. I know a few other modelers have had to modify the engine thrust angle on this plane as well. It is unfortunate I never had the opportunity to figure out what was wrong with it. On the other hand, when I had the GP Extra 300s, it flew perfect right from the get-go.

And I still have a very old kit built CAP 80 incher that I don't care for. It's an outstanding plane to fly but if you get it too slow it will snap on you without any stall warning. That's it's only bad problem. I have had Extras of all sizes and every one of them has always rocked the wings before they would stall. That is until now!! I have a 30% 300 that will show no signs of stall, just snaps. It didn't do it during testing but it caught me on a landing but I was real close to the ground and just lost a prop. A $30.00 landing and a lot of laughing from the peanut gallery. If I have a choice I always fly the Extras or Sukhois. OOPS!!! I mentioned another good flying plane to think about. I just can't think of any small kits being made for the Sukhois anymore.

I agree with jrcaster. The GP Super Sportsters are awesome sport kits. I have built and flown both .40 and .60 size models and they were two of the best flying planes I've had. So much that I plan on building another one this year or early next.

The Super Sportster is the plane I used to have my students build for there second plane, a nice kit!! Today I show them the 4* and SS and have them choose between the two. Both nice planes and builds but not quite up to par with an Extra in the air. I would and do tell people to choose one of these {SS and 4*} for there first build and second or third plane but if you just have to have a real scale stunt plane then it's the Extra. The SS and 4* are a much better choice though!!

I've had two of these CAP's and flown the extra. I prefer the CAP it will do much better tumbles, spins etc.. However this particular plane is extremely sensitive to weight. Anything over 5.5 lbs and it will not perform well. My current CAP weighs at 5.25lbs and flies awesome. I got rid of half of the dihedral and it does need downthrust. Also made larger ailerons. It will do excellent walls and harriers (very little wing rock). The rudder and elevator are far more powerful than the extra.

Both planes have the same wing actually.

For building stock the extra is probably the better choice but I think the CAP has more potential. But it has to be light! I dremeled out the fuse, piped webra 50, light weight rx, pull-pull rudder etc.

You know, that was one of the things I wondered about (was mine just too heavy), since the FS 70 is a bit porky. To balance mine, I had to mount the battery behind the wing saddle (made a removable door). It's quite possible I was just flying a brick which required the high speed landings to avoid stall on approach. I know there's a ton of fellows out there that really like the GP Cap .40, maybe the best of them are using lighter engines. (Hmmmm )

The reason that I recommended the Super Sportster and the Ultra Sport is because the op seems to have a lot of experience with electrics, and not really mentioning anything with glow engines.

This would mean that there should be an intermediate plane to get use to the higher speeds and more area needed to fly a 40 sized glow plane before getting used to a highly aerobatic and faster plane.

The Sportster and Ultra look like nice planes, but seem similar to the World Models LA Racer which I have been flying for the last three months. It is a 40 size, low wing tail dragger with a OS 46AX. You are right in that it has taken me a while to adjust to a larger plane that is faster and needs a larger area to fly in. After probably a 100 flights I am getting comfortable!

Yesterday I visited my LHS and they told me that Great Planes has discontinued the Extra 300 kit. So I ordered a SIG. I see that Tower still shows both the 40 size and 60 size Extra kits in stock. I may order the 60 size and let it sit on the shelf for a while.

Ah, Now that you said that, you should not have too many problems going with the Cap or Extra.

Fiberglass Specialties has the cowl for the Sig Something Extra, incase you are wanting to go to the more scale looks.

One more thing you might want to do to get yourself ready for a more aerobatic plane is to increase the throws little by little on all of your control surfaces.

Did you call Tower and ask??? This is the first I have heard of the GP Extra no longer being made. Is it just the 40 size??

I think the LHS fed you a line of BS, they are still making them and as far as I know, they're still in stock right now. I know some shops I've been to will tell you that the company doesn't exist anymore just because they don't get a good margin on them or they don't put together enough stuff to make ordering profitable.

I emailed '[email protected]' to ask if the Extra 300 kit was discontinued. I just got a reply from them saying it has been discontinued. I did not ask specifically about 40 or 60 size, but assume they have discontinued both. So I went and ordered a 60 size from Tower. Seems like this should boost SIG's business.

The way things are going, looks like the model industry is going backwards. We will all be scratch building before you know it... or be stuck flying ARF's.