http://www.vimeo.com/1914134

Here are people who witnessed my crash. We were all going to get 6 of these things and fly in formation. But, we will see if Nitro can mitigate. We all still love this plane scale.

sfsx21:

I feel the pain...

One thing that struck me, was that the original Starmaxx included an 11v 3S lipo while the newer version includes a 14.8v 4S battery.

This likely caused the issue you had and may be to blame for the ESC problems reported.

The BECs in most ESCs cannot handle more than 11v input.

It also explains why I haven't had a problem since I'm running a separate BEC off the battery.

In contrast the F-35 comes with a 3S LiPo and does not seem to have the same problem.



You may want to mention this to John, and see what he says.

It was the 4s battery. I did not know about the BEC problem until a friend from florida who is also a regular at RCGrpups referred me to the thread about the new F-18 Exeed/Starmax/Riccs...who ever they are now. I know my Atlas 45 has an internal BEC that ran on 11.1V and I disable them to run on 4s. I just wasnt expecting the BEC to be incompatible with the 4s. My pink Vipers were StarMax. Anyways, I have borrowed one of my Castle 60 amp to run my now beat-up plane . With that 60 amp I have no problems, but I have since stopped flying it and waiting to see if John can mitigate. I have sent him a couple of e-mail already about the RMA but I still dont have it. Well, thanks for the instruction on how to get a hold of John. I think the RMA that he mentioned that was sent was not for my order, rather, it was for the gentlemen at the beginning of this thread. If you get a chance to see that video, feel free to take a look at my other FPV vids. I will be touring the Southeast soon to record aerial vids of Historical sites.

opjose, LIKE your stile........
I am looking at the f-18, is it as fast and climbs as good as the vido looks?
You say you need a seperate bec?
I have the gripen and it is nice but way underpowered.
What flight times you getting ?
Can I put in a larger battery, like a tp and not have to wollow out the bat. compartment?
sanford

I'm happy to see you've changed your "know it all composure" to understand & accept some users explanations of the problems with this particular RTF EDF . In addition to the deficient BEC problem, , the hidden antenna configuration put mine down, which was coiled & tied in a "as purchased configuration" & not extended & routed as it should have been and/or mentioned in the manual to be done.
If it were visible,(as it became after the crash) I certainly would have corrected it as I did the wheel rubbing, but then the BEC would have been the back up failure.

All RCG comments & those in this forum considered , someone @ NP must have accepted the "Exceed RC" RTF aspect of this product w/o doing thier homework as the Starmax ARF (Andy Chen's) design w/o Exceed seems to be well accepted.
My thanks to John for understanding & accepting this product's deficiencies.

Not at all! I know all!

This is an Asian plane with a lousy manual. That the manual is bad goes without saying... however it's up to the user/purchaser to check things out.

Leaving the antenna coiled within the ARF is a newbie mistake. At the VERY least the newbie MUST check that all of the connections are solid and should have noticed that the antenna is coiled.

You'll find things this way with most RTF and ARF's.

Unfortunately the low price draws in the newbies... but these are the people who are least able to deal with these planes.

Hence the recommendation to seek aid from others and join a club!


It's always a good idea to give ANY plane no matter who from, a complete going over TWICE.

You may have not caught the BEC problem, which sounds like a real screw-up... but the others really were in your court to deal with.


As far as the BEC, I'll bet that someone thought it a great idea to increase the voltage from the battery...

Ordinarily this is a good thing if it does not adversely affect the motor and the ESC.

The ESC used looks identical to a Tower Pro / Hextronix ESC. I've used these purchased separately on other planes with great success... however at over 11v it needs a separate BEC and you must disable the on-board one by disconnecting the Red line to the RX.

In effect someone did the consumer a "favor" by upping the battery voltage, but they screwed up by not taking the BEC limitation into account.

Either a separate bec should have been provided ( I can imagine a newbie trying to figure THIS out... ) or the web page should post a notice about the plane requiring one.

I used a rather inexpensive $9.00 BEC connected to a Deans plug in such a manner that I can put it in line with the existing connector...

e.g. I can transfer the bec to another plane as desired...


However I'll take that 14.8v battery over the 11v on that plane anyday.


When running an ESC this way, you sometimes CAN get away with the higher voltages.... but it's the luck of the draw.

I'll bet the problem was overlooked because of operational samples... but this SHOULD have been rectified.

*knock on the head* should of had an f-4 phantom from starmax...cheaper, faster, comes with no problems.

Got the RMA today. Thank you John!

i too lost my exceed f18 on first flight,and am an experiance flier.speed controller was faulty on the 14 volts as others have posted.i fought with nitro-models on the phone...not happy with them and will not deal again..

It is not the ESC that is faulty, it is the BEC unable to handle the 4 cells and is stealing power from the ESC causing the sputter or wierd pulsating motor. In fact mine has the stock ESC and new BEC from castle creation. I simply cut the red wire from the BEC to receiver and wired the castle to the battery lead to the receiver batt servo plug. An new ESC with a BEC that can handle 4cell batt should do. On mine, the BEC can now handle up to 6cell batt.

Correct!

Linear mode BECs on ESC's normally cannot deal with more than 11v.

For higher power LiPo's a special ( expensive ) switching mode on board BEC is required... OR an external BEC.

An external BEC is a much cheaper option, as they can be had for about 9.00 or so.

NP put up a warning about this on their website it seems.

Starmax products suck. all the electronics suck too. I had the f-4 phantom that was too fast for its small size..does not even fly right, and a complete waste of money. It was embarrasing because im a decent 3d flyer. Andy Chan is a genius for taking your money. On a side note, nitromodels shows stupidly a video of the f-4 and the guy crashes it on the second flight?? Why show that that? Who wants to fly a broken up ugly plane. No thanks

If you want good products, blitz rc works is great and have easy models to fly. the stealth model is the easiest to fly and well built and recomended for begginers. Im happy with them and my plane does not look like it went through a blender.

I've had very good luck with a couple of the Starmax planes I've purchased and plan on buying yet another.

I've put the included electronics & battery packs through the wringer...

As sfsx21 stated the include ESC can handle FAR greater voltages than what the plane provides for. I also tested this with a meter. However the BEC can only handle 11V.

The included LiPo's also test out wonderfully, producing a solid 20C continuous or MORE, though I would like to see slightly bigger capacities available for the planes.

If anything the included StarMaxx batteries are better than the 15C packs NP sells, so I wish they carried them instead.

My observations on the Starmaxx planes so far:

- The included electronics ARE up to the task, but there is a big caveat with the BEC's on the higher voltages
- The EDF jet's I've purchased had ample cooling of the heat sinks, BUT you need to properly break in ( and sand and balance ) the EDF to assure no overheating/overdraw.
- The beaded foam fuselage is very good looking, but I find the beaded foam a bit softer than other planes...

Note: I was able to cure this by apply a VERY LIGHT coating of TopFlite clear coat, but WARNING, WARNING... it MUST be applied VERY VERY lightly as the base of the clear coat can and WILL dissolve the foam, but doing this made a big difference.

- My biggest single beef with the Starmax planes so far has been with the sloppy clevisis... and the manual is of no help.
- The TX and RX are actually better than many other cheap RTF packages. The TX has dual rates, elevon mixing, and servo direction controls.
- The RX is a 7 or 8 channel full range receiver ( Futaba Compatible ).
- The EDF's seem to sustain fairly high draw rates, most of these planes should really be flown at less than 80% throttle most of the time.
- These planes are not for beginners, and are more suited to intermediate to advanced flyers.
- Did I mention that the manuals suck wind?
- Once assembled the planes look far BETTER than the pictures.
- Many planes come with provisions for additional servos, etc. My F-35 came with the extension leads already in place and labeled for this.

So ultimately there are a few caveats, but the planes are a pretty decent value for the money.


I've never heard of anyone EVER complaining about a plane being "Too fast for it's small size"... often that is exactly what we are TRYING to achive.

The F-4 flies well if it is properly set up, which is not obvious from the lousy instructions...

Opjose.

Lets be realistic. The f-4 phantom is not "easy to learn for begginers." Im a pretty seasoned flyer and that plane was extremely unstable. You fly to slow and like all jets they snap on you. You fly to fast with this thing and it gets out of your site quickly and then you cant even see if your upright or down. I dont know about you but I only have 20/20 vision and my shades dont have built in binoculars. I hate the electronics on the plane. After one belly landing the antenna snapped??? I thought this was also a parkflyer. I dont like it when a TX does not automaticaly put the elevator back in neutral after you let off pressure. The guy who wrote the instructions had anything better to do. The foam...DURABLE MATERIAL? The dang battery compartment hatch broke on the third landing. How am I supposed to fly this thing...hopes and dreams? My son makes paper airplanes that last longer than this thing. Now opjose you seem to always be putting an apple on this threads desk and making starmax seem like the god of edf's but judging from others on this post, I am sure that most would have never bought it if they knew (and you can quote me). This is not a diss to nitroplanes which is the best nitro model place ever. This is a diss to andy chen and his f-4 phantom. I dont have the f-18 but it seems that people are having problems.

On a better note, if you chose to fly edf's, go with nitro's stealth fighter (beginner) or their blackbird and eurofighter. Some of the guys brought them to the field and I was impressed. Cool things such as rare earth magnet hatches and more durable material. I flew the stealth and it was a ball to fly.

The ESC from the f 18 takes 4cell and I know the ESC and the BEC are not consistent and looks like not everyone with the f18 has this problem. I've notified the manufactuer reguarding this and advice them to use the hobbywing 60A as repalcement. Hobby wing has the best quality so far for ESC that's made in China.

John
Nitro planes

Ok...

You are right to point out that this plane is not for beginners. I wholeheartedly agree and I believe that this monikker should be removed from any and all such planes... including those from most other manufacturers who do exactly the same thing...

Namely that they ALL tend to label their planes suitable for beginners, when they are NOT...

I'm strongly AGAINST all of those recommendations to give SuperCub 3CH planes to beginners as well... they are not suitable either.


Re: Unstable

I've mentioned what needs to be done to a similiar plane on another thread.

I'm a "seasoned" flyer so I picked up on all of the things I listed ( which were of course NOT in the manual ) and did them.

However I can well see that anyone not experienced with these things would have problems.

You mentioned both it's speed and snapping on you like all jets...

Exactly!

It behaves fairly well as an EDF jet once adjusted properly and the throws are toned down.

However that is exactly what people seek, a FAST EDF jet... not realizing that this creates those problems you've just cited...

e.g. it gets away QUICKLY and is difficult to see...

That doesn't mean it's "bad" per-se, merely that you've gotten exactly what you asked for, so to speak...

If you wanted a slower but still quick flyer, with jetlike characteristics, look at a pusher prop plane...


I fly mine EDF att half throttle so keep things SANE... heh.



And w/o glasses I'm legally blind... but this really has nothing to do with the plane.

Hate is subjective and not an indicator of performance, which I looked at and covered above. The electrnonics are actually not bad...
I purchased a RTF Synapse, and the Starmax stuff compares favorably against it.

That the antenna snapped ( it is a wire after all ) indicates that maybe you should have routed it differently?

I tend to place mine in plastic tubing to avoid what happened to you.

But this doesn't really speak to the quality of the electronics. This could have happened with anything you used from anyone else too.

I understand that you are upset that your new purchase crashed, but don't let your frustration put blame on the wrong things.... I've OFTEN been in your shoes... not a happy time... ugh.

Why isn't it though?

Parkflyer's don't mean "slow", they merely mean that the plane is small enough not to fall into the regulations that would preclude it from being flown in a park.

e.g. you normally CAN fly electrics in a park, until the ranger shows up because you have an 8'ft wingspan 80000 watt monster in the air, capable of slicing and dicing bystanders... heh...

Eh, mine does... check your linkages... don't the servos return to center when you let off?

Your right stick should spring back to center.

Do you have any slop in the setup?


Agreed, but that's consistent with those wonderful ASIAN manuals so often supplied.

It seems like the Chinglish is being dropped in favor of a few snapshots now... both are equally undecipherable.

Have you flown planes from other manufacturers made of foam?



I've said it on other threads, FOAM is not the bargain that many people make it out to be.

Give me Balsa over foam in terms of repairs. I can put a balsa plane back together after a crash and have it look brand new.


Foam? You can glue, but you end up with big ugly cracks.

Gp touts it's aerocell foam as durable... YEAH RIGHT!!

It's just MORE expensive foam which breaks even faster.

They charge twice as much for their equivalents ( try out a Synapse sometime, I did... ) and they break twice as quickly.


Tape...

Clear tape, etc. are all tried and true techniques, as this stuff happens all the time...


Eh, I DID cite problems above right?

I don't think that I made them out to be the "god of edf's?"

However for the price it's not a bad deal at all, if you have some experience with them and know what you are doing...

The problem is that how many people who buy these things know that you have to break in EDF's?

Not very many I'll venture, and that is the problem.

All too often these planes are purchased by people looking for a bargain ( which they are ) but with little comparable experience.

I come at it with a lot of different planes from varied manufacturers so I've seen the same problems with others as well.

The Starmaxx planes are better than some manufacturers and not quite as good as a few, but in the latter case they are much cheaper... so the buyer may be ahead if they know what they are doing and how to handle the caveats.

That's not to say that Mr. Chen's planes are the all the best things on earth, but hey for the price?


If you want to see some awesomely constructed foamies, check out Multiplex... they even have in-wing speed disconnects, so that when you pull off the wings, the electronics become disconnected, and the latching mechanisms are fantastic...

However by the time you are through putting one of their cheaper planes together, you will have paid for a full large scale gasser... ugh.


Yeap, that on board BEC is the problem it seems.

As I mentioned it appears that someone upped the battery voltage, which while normally GREAT, affects the stability of the BEC output, and that is where the ball was dropped.

They should have either warned about needed a separate BEC or supplied one as part of the package.

John was right on this though when I told him about this thread and explained the problem.


You already got the Blackbird???

Now I'm envious...

Well I agree with what you are saying and thanks for the inputs. You must have a lot of free time to care this much. Il put it down for you, I interpreted RTF as ready to fly (no break in, everything ready to go and extra info in the manual if you so need it).

That surprised me. The right stick on my transmitter is set up just like the throttle. I thought this was normal but if not, please tell me because I did crash it because of a snap. It did really make it difficult to fly and I can always send the TX over to nitro so they can see that. Who knows but I dont expect that nitro will fork over a new plane. I dont have time to look down to see if my elevator is in neutral and I think I had to much up elevator in my turn no more than half throttle and bamm. I guess the entenna is my fault but they could of made it to where it was more durable. You said that you used tubing and that seems like a great idea but then again this is a RTF/ parkflyer. It is obvious that the entenna needs to be uncoiled and run outside the hatch because of the predrilled whole...so its logical that you tape it right? I mean you cant run it inside the fuselage because it will get blended up. Yes I was pretty bummed because I dont have an impressive crash rate (this would be my second) but I do feel that it was not entirely my fault. I do wish they would of given me info about the throws and flight speed.

"They charge twice as much for their equivalents ( try out a Synapse sometime, I did... ) and they break twice as quickly."

...no thanks il pass

no...unfortunatly I dont have the blackbird but saw it and fly and I didnt know wether to cry or jump with joy. With retracts...nice. stealth fighter flies the best and is simple to fly for begginer because its a wing
I see you also have a cmpro giles 50. Mine is in progress. Great quality from what I see especially the gear and pushrods made from carbon fiber. The wing was already built which was nice and I like those hinges to. I have a saito .72 on it and it looks great. Cant believe I got it for $88 (what a steal). I guess asians are better at building the model than the instructions. Let me know how it flies?

Just clocked mine at 115 mph with wind sustained at 22mph gusting to 35mph ....of course this is down wind. Yesterday we gunned her at 86mph level flight on TP 2200 5S with WemoTech fan. I'll install my JS 1400, it should hit consistent 90 plus to 100mph with no wind and level flight.......OH! almost forgot...this is on the stock 50A ESC and seperate BEC. This plane is getting better and better.......Thank you John for sending me the replacement....i have had no problems with her after I installed a modified landing gear and a new BEC.

When is the kit version going to be back in stock? I've been waiting 8 weeks for them to get back in stock when I was told it would only be 4.