I seem to have the worst luck with these little "easy to fly" planes like the MegaTech Sky Vector and Hobbico "Aero Cruiser". The ads show 12-yr olds flying like pros on their first attempt. I have as much luck flying these things as I would have flying a 747! Being a grown-up doesn't help, but I don't understand how anybody can get these things to fly.

Are the vendors just out and out liers? Or are they glossing over some essential preparation that I'm missing? My planes drill right into the ground, there's no time to move any controls - and when I do there's no effect.

- I have eyeballed the planes and the wings and tail surfaces appear parallel.
- I am throwing them slightly upward.
- I have the engine on full, and no other controls touched.
- They crash.

Am I not throwing them HARD enough? Do they need a real heave?

Are they SUPER sensitive to the control surfaces not being parallel and square to the rudder? Is there some way to check this other than a tape measure and eyeball?

These poor broken planes seem awfully heavy for their pitiful foam wings and fins. How can they survive even successful flights?

I have gotten some suggestions for better planes to start with. I'd welcome more! Although I'd like to use my existing flight pack and not buy some bundled rinky-dink AM transmitter.

By the way I'm training via Buddy Box on a gas powered plane, and so far that seems easier than these "entry level" park flyers.

Thanks for any insight or advice. I know veterans of this list must be tired of us newcomers re-hashing this old ground.

Many of these planes are underpowered, or overweight, which winds up being the same thing. They use weak motors to save money. They use cheap nicads, which are heavy. They sell them with chargers, which...don't, so the batteries never give you full power. They set them up with short control throws, trying to avoid overcontrol (common rookie mistake) but the planes become nearly unresponsive. They build them sturdy, to take crashes, but more structure means more weight, poor flight, and the crashes they caused trying to...survive crashes. They take simple good free-flight planes and stuff them with cheap car radio gear, which makes for inexpensive but poor fliers.

Most of the time, anyway.

I rant like this because I bought my son an Intruder two Christmases ago, because the E-chargers and Air Hogs from the same company flew so well. I wanted something cheap to introduce him to the sport- something that was his alone, instead of "borrowing" one of my models to fly.

The Intruder is crap. That's just my opinion, I guess I have to say, but I couldn't ever get it to fly, and I've flown models since I was his age. It still sits under his bed. I notice that you don't see them in stores anymore, but don't wonder why.

On the other hand, it IS possible to get a good one. That's where resources like this board (and many others, Jim B.!) come in. You can find what works. The Firebird Outlaw cost less than the Intruder and flew nicely, right out of the box. Still does. Pretty much all the Firebirds (and their close clones) do. Even with a cheap airframe and radio, if you obey the laws of physics, you can fly.

No, I'm not tired of newbies rehashing this question. If you don't ask, you won't know, and you'll buy crap, and you'll quit trying, quickly. Then who will I have to fly with?

End of rant. I'll waive the two cents.

Steve

Chall, I myself dabbled with a Hobbico AeroCruiser (or Cubwannabe as I now call them). Take heart, they fly like trash.
I agree with Steve, check into a Firebird. They're quite popular among new electric pilots. I myself had a chance to fly an Aerobird (test hop for guy) and can vouch for its flying charactaristics. They really make good trainers.

I find 3 channel planes such as the GWS SS to be a lot easier to fly. Although I have flow a Firebird (better than most), I have never flown one very well. However, I can take any of my 4 channel planes and tear up the sky.

So, don't feel bad if you cannot fly one of those cheap 2 channel planes. Neither can I. Steve did a good job explaining why.

Jason

Hey Chall,

Like everyone said its not you. I entered the hobby back in May and my first plane was a megatech skyliner. I couldn't get the doggone thing to achieve flight for more then 10 seconds. I spent more time re-ordering parts for the plane then time in the air. One day I got so frustrated after like my sixth weekend of trying to get it to fly that I went right to the hobby shop. I ended up purchasing a firebird xl and 2 hours later I was @ the park flying; I was actually flying. 3 minutes later I crashed but that was because I was so excited and I over controlled the plane. Since then I have built a GWS tigermoth (great plane for a beginner) and a glow powered plane called the avistar. I love this hobby. So like everyone mentioned get yourself a nice starter plane and get addicted to the hobby just like everyone else did.

Mark

I have to echo what the others have said about the Firebird line of entry level electrics. My wife bought me a Firebird II last year for Christmas. I kind of doubted it would fly but I was wrong. I usually get impatient and fly it in too much wind or try flying out of my front yard and have to dodge trees and powerlines and because of my stupidity and lack of patience I got pretty good with. I have meet a couple of guys that have Aerobirds and Commanders (UPSCALE FIREBIRDS) and after flying their planes, including their Superstar EP's, they encouraged me to take the next step and today I bought an Aerobird Challenger. Don't give up on this hobby. I would suggest getting something like the Commander. It is a bigger version of the Firebird II.

Good Luck and don't give up!

I don't mean to insult anybody here but I have a question. Are you pushing the stick up to make the plane go up? I had a newbie 45 y/o that flew his plane about 5 times strait into the ground and then he gave up. When I checked the plane everything seemed alright until he said..."I keep pushing the stick up and the plane just crashes".

This may be a stupid suggestion since I am not familiar with your plane, but i do fly a GWS Formosa and it is my first and i love it. I had the same problem after I got it but then after a good post crash inspection I relized the prop was installed backwards giving it negitive pitch which in turn in not allowing the motor to pull the plane along. Hope it helps, maybe you just have to turn your prop around.

Nope, the propeller can't be installed backwards on this plane. But you can break it! ;-)

There is no "UP" stick on this two-channel plane. The left control is a throttle, the right controls the rudder-vators (I guess you'd call'em). It has a V-tail.

My current theory is that the tail assembly is not being held in proper alignment with the fuselage. These planes have a long thin carbon-fiber tube connecting the tail and fuselage, and there are little bolts to fix the tube at both ends to it won't rotate.

I think it's rotating despite the little bolts, so the tail is out of alignment and sends the plane down to the left or right, hard.

I think I have enough propellers, white glue, and packing tape to make some more attempts. Maybe I can put a drop of CA on that shaft at the tail join and keep things from moving around. I'll post again if I have any luck!

Don't get discouraged. I had a guy and his son that showed up at our field with an Aerobird and they asked me to get it flying for them. I fly glow and electric and have trained quite a few people. I put the Aerobird up and it showed a lot of potential until I tried to turn or land it. Power off the controls went away and the glide was so flat I needed a 2 mile approach from 50 feet. I spent an hour trying to get it controllable with no luck. They tried it another day by themselves and crashed it. I believe they're on their fourth one and still not doing a lot of flying. In my opinion its got major control issues and it's too hard for a beginner to setup properly. I taught my niece to fly with a Multiplex Teddy, in my opinion one of the best electric trainers on the market. Multiplex no longer sells it but has replaced it with the Easy Star (basically a better Teddy). It should be available soon from Hitec for about $200 as a ready to fly Hitec/Multiplex combo. Try it you'll love it (and you'll actually learn to fly)

Mike

Like everyone has said before, please don't be discouraged by these planes. I am a glow flyer who is in the process of learning all the ins and outs of electrics. I agree with you that glow seems to be easier, mainly because power is not a problem. I can only comment on gws electric planes because that is what I have. I have a gws tigermoth and a gws mustang that I am working the bugs out of. The tigermoth flys fine the way it was designed to (slow flyer), but has short duration with the recommended batteries. The p51 barely stays in the air and is always on the edge of a stall after about 1 min. of flight. I have read posts that say the gws planes fly fine in stock form, and just as many posts that say gws planes will not fly without mods. I have decided that in order to make the electric aspect of this hobby work for me, I will have to buy the best of motors, batteries, and chargers (brushless,lipo). I don't expect glow performance out of electrics, but I want at least a little performance! In short, you are not alone, and if you stick it out, you will be rewarded, just do the research and don't cheap out like I did. It is not cheaper in the long run!

I agree with all the positive feedback on the Firebirds,
I bought a FirebirdXL 2 yrs ago and got hooked. I have
moved up to the ElectraJet and I also fly a Megatech
MegaStealth II, Megatech gets a bad rap in the forums
but I haven't had any problems with mine. My new
project will be the FS F-16. The FirebirdXL was great
to start with and learn the basics of flight, but it gets old
fast, go with AeroBird you get 3 channels and it also
is a great performer. These are my opinions.

Good Luck!!

MAC

Long story short i felt the same way. Recently i picked up a megatech skyvector. Hoenstly its not a beginner plane. Its underpowered and doesnt seem happy to be in the air. I spent more time throwing sticks at it to get it out of trees than i did flying it. The radio gear led to alot of those treeings.

Although since i was actually able to fly it some i decided it was too much of a toy for me and thats why it stunk so bad. I then picked up a flying styro leonardo. It proved a big thing for me, flying a normal plane is way diffenrent than the skyvector and two i didnt learn as much at flying as i thought.

After some nasty foam altering crashes i finally can say i know how to fly parkflyers. Once i got the leonardo setup(from learnign the hard way) the thing is an absolute joy to fly. Its so stable, and fun. Not to mention the nose has broken off 3 times, wing snapped off once, busted prop, and broken rudder due to tailwheel mod, and the thing stil flys great.

My advice, more often than not its the gear your using, try something meant for a beginner but thast known for better quality. Eventually youll have sucess.

Who makes the "leonardo"? That's a new one to me.

Thanks!

Its a flying styro kit, i think they are in eastern europe or somewher around there. I got it through hobby looby.

Oooh, I see. That's a nice looking plane:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/leonardo.htm

I thought you were talking about something like a Graupner Tipsy, which is one ugly plane.

WELL ! all of these post and no one asked if you had a flight simulator , see, the thing is I taught myself and i had the skyvector and realized there was entirely to many things to trim on it , the guy at americas shop trimmed for me and after he did that that was the only successful flight i had with it, i have the skylines truthfully I only had one successful flight with it until I REALIZED the gear box loses power each time you fly or try too , Hey metal on plastic doesnt seem right ,. Ive tried the hyperfly, man what a heli accept it flies like an airplane ,spacked it up ! I Have a 2meter glider I refused to crash so I dont attepmt to fly it until Im more experienced , NOW ! I have the freedom flyer you can read post under FREEDOM FLYER 2 SUCCESSFUL FLIGHTS , thats all I have to say. oh yea I hate stick fusalage planes ........

Yeah, but after my training sessions its not as nice looking as it used to be. I got it because it was the only beginner plane i could find that really looked like a "normal" aircraft. Well at least one with a decent price tag.

So far its done almost everything ive asked it to, ill probably end up replaceing it with the same thing once i stop crashing so much.

My Aerobird is realtively easy to fly even power off, push stick fowards a bit to increase airspeed and the response is quite okay. My only issue with the aerobird is an iffy speed controller that sometimes goes intermittent.
Scott

Though new to the sport I'll toss out my 2 cents worth anyway. First, I think you have to consider the marketing angle. A lot of R/C planes are marketed with the appearance that anyone can immediately be flying in minutes, no experience required. As a Technology Manager, I equate it somewhat to computers. Buy one and you'll instantly be doing all kinds of wonderful things. Neither are true. I recently completed my first glow plane, a 1/5 scale World Hobbies Cub. Spent several months building it and it looks beautiful. But one lesson learned was that ARF is strictly a matter of interpretation. If I had not done my homework, had the tools and some background in building static scale aircraft, I doubt I would have able to finish it. Otherwise a great learning experience. Now to get to a field and have a more experienced soul give it a test flight.

While that was going on I got into electric's to help 'scratch the itch'. Started with the FB Outlaw. They were okay, a few crashes and fly-aways but not there yet. Moved to the FB Commander. More crashes and a fly-away. But I stuck with it, learned to repair them and do a bit of tweaking. Also carried them around in my truck, taking every opportunity to fly, or crash. I think doing that made all the difference. As long as the plane is fly-able, practice practice practice. I can now see a marked improvement in my flying. I can gauge battery level by how its flying, or what the wind at altitude is doing. How to control it in turns and setup for landings, basically learning how to think ahead of the airplane. Recently I got a GWS Slow Stick to better prepare me for one day flying the Cub. Got it all together, was testing electronics without wing when accidently turned on TX last. Went to full power and sailed out of garage trying to fly. Busted up the tail assembly. Repaired it. First flight it looped and twisted and smashed hard. Figured out servo torque was pulling servo mount toward tail making it unrecoverable in flight. More repairs and tuning. Today I launched it and it started to fly beautifully, suddenly it began twisting. The GWS glue didn't hold and the engine had flown off the plane. Fortunately it dived and nose buried straight up, so no repairs for once! I'll secure the engine and have no doubt it'll fly great.

Yes it can get expensive after a while. But that expense will decrease and the enjoyment will increase if one sticks it out and realizes that no plane is crash proof and flyable by anyone right out of the box. I've got several buddies hooked into it and they're having the same learning pains. But thats what it is, learning. No different with this hobby than school or anything else in life that finally at some point provides a level of satisfaction. STICK IT OUT AND DON'T GIVE UP! Now grab that plane and go flying!!

quote :Are the vendors just out and out liers? Or are they glossing over some essential preparation that I'm missing? My planes drill right into the ground, there's no time to move any controls - and when I do there's no effect. : unquote ,

Im just curious, where was BEACH , when this question was asked ?

I haven't commented on this thread because most everything's already been covered. Any advice I have to give has already been given.

That being said.
Every plane on the market will fly. It may take a TOC champion to keep it in the air, but as long as someone can fly it, that company will sell it. If it is inexpensive, this usually compounds the problem. Someone who just wants a taste of the hobby to see if they like it will have a hard time dropping $300 on a good flying plane. Of course the simple mistakes we all make when we're learning compound the problem, and usually lead to frustration, anger, etc.

Jason

One thing that I would say is; throw straight. I had a hard time with my firebird (XL) at first, because I was throwing it up. throw it straight forward. It doesn't need a heave, just a toss.

Well-... when I first started (on a T-hawk powered glider thingy) my mistake was to launch it upwards-ALWAYS throw level.
Also, don't grab for the controls straight after- just let it go on its own for a second or two, and then gently react with its movements.
As for the control surfaces, just make sure that they eye through as level.

Damn, if only it were so easy........

Zeroskill by name......

Damn, forgot to mention that the tail boom on my T-hawk used to twist around quite a bit as well, so the front and rear wings weren't parallel all the time, but it didn't seem to make an awful lot of difference- nothing that couldn't be trimmed out on the tx controls once in the air at a safe altitude.

Zeroskill by name........