Hi,

Long time reader, first time poster looking for some purchasing advice if anyone would be so kind?

To set the scene: having always had an interested in flying/rc planes, I was bought a X-Twin Bi-Plane micro (2ch?) rc plane for Christmas, I've had many happy hours flying/crashing the plane and as a result decided (under the guidance of my LHS) to upgrade to a "proper" plane. I purchased a Parkzone Spitfire and after crashing it on the maiden flight and waiting 2.5 months for parts have decided to shelve it for a while in favour of something a little more fitting for someone of my skill level.

On that note, does anyone have any recommendations for a beginner>intermediate (pre-parkzone) plane (or should I pursue flying the Spitfire??)? So far I have short listed a few models including the Hobbyzone SuperCub and a few cheaper 3ch EPF, powered gliders (figured with a glider I'd get a bit more airtime but could still use the power to speed things up a bit). An example of which is [link=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-3ch-Radio-Controlled-RC-Glider-Aeroplane-UK_W0QQitemZ330118046881QQihZ014QQcategoryZ19164QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem]Glider[/link]


Since I already have the Spitfire I don't really want to spend much in excess of £100, and ideally the plane should be able to take a few knocks! I've considered buying a sim (and probably will do at some point) but working in an office would love a solution that involved a bit of sunlight and fresh air!

Many Thanks.

First and formost- Welcome.

It's sad to see that hobby shops will recommend a low wing bird as a first plane. It's almost sure the maiden will only last less than a minute.

If you want to fly, I would suggest a high wing trainer type plane. The Super Cub isn't bad to start with, but there are alot of options out there these days.
Stay with something high wing, low wing loading, a slower flying plane. Something in the way of a cessna, cub, the ultra stick.

A sim will help you with some things, however it's best to have some one who has some years under there belt to help coach you. You may want to look into a club.

Park that Spitfire for awhile and go back to it later.

How much room do you have? A Slow Stick will let you fly in anything from a ballfield to a big field. They can be powered by any number of configurations from NiMH to 4 cell lipo. Oh, and I am the exception to the rule I have broken just about everything on the plane, most just go through some props. If you have lots of room you could try the redhawk, the multiplex, the aerobird series, the list goes on.

The question becomes, what do you want to fly, how much room do you have, and how much do you want to spend? A vendor you might want to check is UnitedHobbies.com, they are in HK and carry GWS products and most every spare you can think of.

Tim

I second the Super Cub! Cannot say enough about how easy it is to fly..

JP Electrafun XP is a pretty reasonable trainer that you can get in the UK. HZ Supercub is probably superior, but the Electrafun is cheaper.

Thanks for the feedback everyone - its nice to find a community so willing to help/advise. Glad to get the impression that everyone thinks I should shelve the Spitfire, I was dubious as to whether it was me just being too sensible!

Space isnt a massive issue, there is a field/common land near to home that is always deserted so I tend to fly there, I'm a big fan of scale looks (which is whats put me off the aerobirds etc. to date). As for price, I'm happy to invest approx. £100ish but am fairly flexible - I want something that'll offer a steady learning curve. I'd ideally like something which can handle a small breeze since the UK doesnt tend to be still every often - does that mean I need a heavier plane?

Think I'll take a closer look at the SuperCub.

Out of curiosity, what is "low wing loading"? The amount of pressure on the wing?

Thanks again.

Wing loading is the weight of the plane divided by the total area of wing.

When they say low wing loading, they are referring to a very light plane with very large wing, kind of in general terms. A GWS slow stick would be considered a plane with low wing loading, ie a floater. The spitfire would be considered a mid to high wing loading plane. ie a flying brick.

Bigger and heavier is always better in moderate wind.

Hi,

What is wrong with the Spitfire as a second plane? When you crashed which rates did you have it set on?

I think the Spitfire is a very easy plane to fly. I own the PZ Spitfire and its the only plane I have ever owned and it is still crash free.

If getting replacment parts is an issue I can understand you wanting something else. I have flown the Supercub on a sim and it was pretty boring. If I remember it just has a rudder and no ailerons.

Anyways good luck and happy flying!!

Thanks for the guidance on wing loading.

Spitfire was set on low rates I think. Whilst I think of it, whats the recommended settings for the aileron/elevators? Currently my elevator is on the last notch and the ailerons have about 1/2" wire before the end. One final question if you dont mind; I presume when trimmed out, the ailerons/elevators should be neutral to the rest of the wing/tail?

Nothing wrong with Spitfire as a second plane but the first one was more of a toy (great fun though!) - you could nose dive it from full height (about 15m up) and it wouldnt break.

Thanks.

One thing to keep in mind about the cub, and being "boring". When you feel comforable with it and it gets to the point of being "boring", you could easily cut ailerons for it and add one servo, or move the rudder servo to the ailerons. Then it would feel like a whole new plane for the price of a $13 servo.
In this hobby it's easy to make minor changes to a plane and make it a whole new ball game.

GunfighterII is dead on with regards to the wing loading. Example a high wing/low wing load plane will take off/fly/ and land at a very slow pace, because the stall speed is much lower.--The plane has more lift and doesn't need alot of power to fly.

A low wing/high loading plane will need to truely be flown. There's not much forgivness here. It has to fly faster just to stay in the air. And if you drop the speed too much, it goes into a stall-quick. Drops like a rock. Also when landing you have to bring it in much faster so it won't stall.

I would always recommend a high wing to a beginner because they are much more forgiving. I have seen a few people spend 200-300 on a low wing warbird, crash, get upset and never fly again.
Don't over look the areobirds to fast. The Challenger is a great plane. Not a scale look, but flies great. On a day with 15-20mph winds, when my other planes may be grounded, I always know the Challenger can fly. A small shim under the back of the wing and your golden. If you do get one of these, check out the mods to do on it first. Some good stuff.

And is the spitfire the only plane, outside the simulator, that you have ever flown? How many flights have you done on the spitfire? How many hours did you spend on the simulator?

I'm quite interested because yours is an unusual story of success. This forum is full of posts from beginners saying they just bought a PZ warbird as their first plane, then lots of people telling them that was a bad idea and to try something easier and then the next post from that person has them saying they flew the warbird, briefly, and it is now in pieces, and what plane would everyone recommend.

Cheers,
Oz.

Even though there are bound to be pilots who have managed to learn and do well with war birds, if you talk to enough people I think you will soon find that the general consensus is: warbirds are NOT usually a good choice of planes for beginners. If you have enough room to fly it (or maybe I should say land it in) one of the best choices you could make would be the Multiplex Easy Star. It probably has not been recommended by anyone before me because your post is in the Park Flyer Forum and the Easy Star is a bit large to be a park flyer but is one of the best beginner planes out there. Ask me how I know. I love mine!

Absolutely, and I am one of them. I'm just interested in hearing what the circumstances surrounding this fellow's success were. He might just be one of the few who take to RC flying like a fish to water. Or there might be more he hasn't told us - either way I guess I am trying to find out if there is some qualification or caveat on his success.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Hobbyzone Firebird Phantom? Looks like a cheaper/lower powered version of the aerobird? Priced at £53 inc. free carriage it looks quite appealing given I already have the parkzone?

Thanks

Hi,

I did fly an Aero Ace for a few flights. Its an Air Hog bi-plane toy and it was fun to fly. I bought the Esky FMS and have flown probably a few hours on it. I did put some good hours into the Real Flight G3.5. I had a hernia surgery awhile back and I was laid up for a bit. one of my buddies brought it over for me and thats all I did while I was recovering.

I haven't been keeping count but I would say I have a dozen or so flights on the Spitfire. I haven't tried the high rates yet but I think I will try this weekend if the weather is nice. For all my flights I have had a few friends with me as spotters. I think that has helped me a lot when I get disorientated.

I don't if it helps but I have flown a real Cesna 172 and I was getting my private last year. I know its not the same but I learned about stalls and not over controlling the plane which I think translates into RC.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I had my most trouble with my landings. I always seem to come in too fast and have had to do a few go arounds. Nothing has broken yet but I have had 1 or 2 landings where I thought something should have been broken but wasn't.

Anyways goodluck!!

Here are some thoughts on Beginner Plane Characteristics here:

[link=http://www.ampaviators.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemi d=31]Beginner Thoughts[/link]

The only person who benefits from selling a warbird to a beginner is the person who sold it to you.

sidebp, if you have room for a aerobird, check out the redhawk, thats a 3 channel v tail that is complete. About $75 US. The problem with pz gear is that isn't usually interchangable, And I have strong feelings about the throttle on the back.

Thanks for taking the time to write that up - that's very interesting. It looks like the sim time paid big dividends for you.

With respect to your landings you might find it useful to do a full scale approach - fly the downwind, base and final just letting your altitude and speed come off a bit on each leg. As you make that final turn just be a little aware that while the spitfire glides beautifully with the wings level, without enough corner speed she will have a nasty stall.

Once you've closed the throttle on the final make sure you dive slightly below the glide angle, letting you just build up a little airspeed as you approach the ground (not much! Just a little). This airspeed will make it easier to do a nice flare 6-12 inches from the ground and just hold the model level and let her sink into the ground once the airspeed is gone.

Oh, and if it doesn't look like you are going to land 10 metres short of yourself, then chances are you are going to land long.

Cheers,
Oz.

Hiya, from across the Border. All the advice you've been given is correct. I've got 7 planes to date - some brilliant and some not worth a penny!! Aerobird Swift, no, don't do it. First plane should be rudder and elevator, no ailerons - keep it nice and simple first then later ailerons. You need "air time", not repairing time. Cheap Sims are good. I've got 3 Strykers and gone and bought a really slow plane, the GWS Beaver. Out of the box it takes off in 15ft, climbs and is light (it can be updated later). Its only £25 with moto, then you'll need a cheap TX/RX, servos and esc (E-Flite do a 6 channl for £48 at Robotbirds). 4 hours build time and your off! If you need further advice RCU is always here. Check out Ozrcboys website - brilliant!! I'm usually up till 3am Greenwich time for help. Byeee[X(][X(][X(]

hi, ive just been reading through the forum and i am also a new flyer, i started my love of flying with a terrible air hogs defener which was two channel but used very unconventional controls. i then went and bought a silverlit bi plane and on clam days would be very fun to fly and crash into branches etcbut weighing around 20 grams and made out of tough epp foam didn't gain a dent... after saving up 85 pounds (about 145 dollars) with the intention of buying a firebird freedom from hobbyzone i found the parkzone slo-v for alot less. since i have had that i have had endless fun and although i have been racing nationally with 1/10th touring cars 3ch flying has been a walk in the park (fly in the park) i strongly recommend this for anyone flying during the summer breezy british months and even in light rain as i found yesterday.
i am currently upgrading it as i have heard it can be even better.
just as the original poster of this forum i will be purchasing a faster heavier plane for the winter months however as it can get a bit hairy at times.

i love to see such open advice on a site. keep up the good work

max
15
england

Thanks for the feedback everyone, its really inspired me to think about my next purchase - as driveandfly says, its nice to find such open advice not the usual lack of patience or "google it" type responses.

Tam popo - expect to see some messages from me in the wee hours!

I'll post back once I've spent the hard earned!

choose wisely. one peice of advice is when you have it dont do the biggest mistake and take her out on a bad day. it will knock your confidence if you crash o your first go.

Right, I *think* I've narrowed down my selection to the following and so am after any particular recommendations:

* PZ Super Cub

Like the scale looks, strong reputation, not the most expensive.

* Multiplex Easystar (thanks balckarrow)

Seems to do a good job of gliding - I like the idea of increasing air time. Probably the most expensive option (in the UK). Seems to fair well in crashes and less detailed construction presumably means less to repair/easier to repair? (Although for some reason, I like the idea of a landing gear! Is it possible to retrofit?)

* PZ Slo-V

Not a fan of the looks but am impressed by the price. Slower speed probably an easier/less costly way to learn but is this the right idea given I want to move onto the Spitfire eventually?

Any other options I've blatantly missed?

One more question, is it worth getting a Li-Po battery? As stated previously, I like the idea of max. air time plus the extra power would be nice. Do I have to buy a dedicated Li-Po charger? Any recommendations on a good battery?

Thanks.

Hiya! I'm retired at 55 so all my time is spent building/repairing and flying (and keeping wifey happy)! You've narrowed it down well, Easystar has a big fan club in Australia (good thread!) but it is pricey over here. The only slight problem with HZ/PK stuff is interchangeabily of esc, RX and TX etc. Slow flying sticks look bad but if you see one fly you'll know why they have a fan club. I mentioned GWS Beaver (luv that name!!) but there's another - its the E_starter (very similar). With this type of plane all you get is the self assembly foam plane (very easy to make) and motor plus rods, etc. The TX/RX is up to you as is the battery. A base start pack of TX/RX and 2-3 servos and even esc can be had for £50 (Dreamstarter, GWS, E-flight etc) and its all transferable - total to fly £100 and a 4- hours. Are you handy enough to solder, glue, build and do you have basic knowledge of electrics? The electrics knowledge really is basic and your LHS or RCU will always give advice. Don't let your heart rule your head - don't go warbird just yet. Always here!!

FOR SPARES HAVE U TRIED ANTICS ONLINE ..THEY HAVE BEEN SPOT ON FOR PARTS FOR ME .IVE A LEARNING PLANE MY HOBBY ZONE COMMANDER ITS BEEN A GREAT EXPERIANCE ..ALTHOUGH GETTING IT OUT OF TREES HAS BEEN HARDER THAN FLYING IT ONLY LAST WEEK I SPENT TWO DAYS TRYING TO GET IT BACK FROM THE 60FT TREE ..THANKS TO A MATE WITH A AIR RIFLE HE SHOT IT DOWN AFTER 30 SHOTS AND IAM BACK IN THE AIR AGAIN ALLREADY..

http://www.rcaircraftmodels.co.uk/1387_1.html