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What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

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View Poll Results: A poll
Glue the wing in first, and then put the covering on.
16.67%
Put the covering on first, and glue the wing afterwards.
83.33%
I have some other novel way that I will explain in the thread.
0
0%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Old 06-21-2004, 11:31 PM
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3d-aholic
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Default What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

I can't decide the best way to finish my new profile. Its my first profile so I'm looking for some advice. The instructions seem to recommend both gluing the wing in first and then covering as well as covering and then gluing the parts together. My experience in the past was it was much easier to do the covering first and glue on the stablizer....but thats when all you have to put on is the stab.

When it comes to an entire wing getting the fit to be perfect is nearly impossible....unless you add filets before the covering goes on. However, trying to cover the wing glued and fixed on a plane sounds nearly impossible.

Please pass on your wisdom.
Old 06-22-2004, 12:04 AM
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PAR
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Something I have done in the past is to cover the wing first. Before installing it cut your covering for the fuse leaving about 3/8" overlap into the hole where the wing fits. Install the wing and add any necessary filler to the gaps. You can then slide the fuse covering over the wing and on to the fuse with enough lip on the covering to cover the fillets.
Hope that makes sense.

Paul
Old 06-22-2004, 07:32 AM
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wyflyer
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

When I built my OMP ff 540, I glued it all together before I covered it. That worked out pretty good for me. That is my only profile, so I have never done it the other way.
Old 06-22-2004, 08:11 AM
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STLPilot
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

chug a beer, glue the wing in first, chug a beer, then put the covering on, then do keg stand.
Old 06-22-2004, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

I've done it both ways and It's much easier to get a nice covering job if you cover all the components first, then assemble them. Just make sure to get the covering cut back on the surfaces that need to bond. I like to get a nice glue filet between the wing and fuse.
Old 06-22-2004, 10:11 AM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

ORIGINAL: PaulSwany

I like to get a nice glue filet between the wing and fuse.
How can you do that? My covering color of fuse and wing is different...so I can't overlap the covering to try and cover this up after the fact.

Plus I was thinking of doing one of the PaulSwany flags on top....which is going to be even more difficult..
Old 06-22-2004, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

I'm talking about just epoxying the wing in and creating a little glue fillet right over the covering... Just a little fillet keeps the covering from lifting and the glow fuel out... Don't worry about overlapping the covering.

It's much easier to do the flag on the wing before it's mounted... And that's a Gator flag.. He's the originator of that design...
Old 06-22-2004, 07:27 PM
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3d-aholic
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Ok, so the glue fillet is on top of the covering...it won't stick like that though... You can pry it off fairly easily off of covering.
Old 06-22-2004, 10:19 PM
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Gordo-ProBro
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Dude, I can't even imagine covering after assembly. The whole thing about these planes is they are....well....flat!! The covering is so easy on flat parts, and the assembly so easy......well, it's all so easy!
Old 06-22-2004, 11:06 PM
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Daryl Martel
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

I just recently completed covering a pair of Sledges. I covered one after glueing the wing in and the other covered all the parts before assembly. Hands down it's much easier to cover before assembly. Re the wing/fuse glue fillet, I use microballoons and slow cure Hobbypoxy. Masking tape to keep from spreading the mess and a calibrated wet finger to smooth it out is all thats needed...
Old 06-23-2004, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

ORIGINAL: Daryl Martel

I use microballoons and slow cure Hobbypoxy. Masking tape to keep from spreading the mess and a calibrated wet finger to smooth it out is all thats needed...
Ok, well thats what I was going to do as well...but are you saying that you are putting the fillet on top of the covering like Paul...thats the part I don't understand. Epoxy doesn't stick to covering.....It will peel right off. Are you leaving a balsa gap, then filleting, then using a trim sheet on top to hide the ugliness?
Old 06-23-2004, 09:33 AM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Covering is left off on the wing and obviously in the opening in the fuz. In other words if you work the epoxy into the gap well enough it goes to wood on wood. I have never been able to get a perfectly tight fit between the wing and the fuz. And well if there is I open it up a micro millimeter or so to get the glue in there.
Old 06-23-2004, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

ORIGINAL: 3d-aholic

ORIGINAL: Daryl Martel

I use microballoons and slow cure Hobbypoxy. Masking tape to keep from spreading the mess and a calibrated wet finger to smooth it out is all thats needed...
Ok, well thats what I was going to do as well...but are you saying that you are putting the fillet on top of the covering like Paul...thats the part I don't understand. Epoxy doesn't stick to covering.....It will peel right off. Are you leaving a balsa gap, then filleting, then using a trim sheet on top to hide the ugliness?

The fillet isn't so much for strength as it is to keep the goop out.... And actually it sticks quite well..... The strength of the joint is in the wood to wood contact where the covering is stripped away.
Old 06-23-2004, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

ORIGINAL: PaulSwany

The fillet isn't so much for strength as it is to keep the goop out.... And actually it sticks quite well..... The strength of the joint is in the wood to wood contact where the covering is stripped away.
Oh...
So the fillet actually acts like a part of the finish....covers up the "uneveness" of the joint with a constant smooth tapered joint?

Ok, that makes sense.

The only time I have done this is an "after" the fact incident repair....also sometimes called a crash repair.
You don't sand the fillet then right? Because I have tried that before and its nearly impossible not to scratch the covering on either side of the fillet.
Old 06-23-2004, 10:14 AM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

You got it.... and I don't try to sand the fillet either.... I just use a paper towel with some alcohol to smooth the joint. Some guys use a wet finger...
Old 06-23-2004, 11:57 AM
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Mike in DC
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

3d-aholic, in my mind these are profiles, not scale models. The beauty of a profile is that it's so easy to build, so I follow that same philosophy for covering, covering before assembling. I cut the fuse covering flush to the wing opening. I test fit the wing, and draw lines on it where it meets the fuse. Then I cover the wing, up to those lines, leaving a 1/2" band of bare wood down the middle of the wing.

Then, I assemble the wing, and glue it in with medium CA, or some thin CA if it fits very tightly. I use little slivers of balsa and medium CA to fill any gaps over 1/32 of an inch. By the time the wing is glued in, most any bare wood has had enough CA seep into it to be totally fuel proof. If not, I drip a little thin CA on any bare wood showing.

If I've been careful, the end result looks a lot like what PaulSwany describes, but the "fillet" is medium CA, not epoxy. Epoxy can create an incredible mess on the covering, so I don't use it. No, the joint will not win any beauty contests with the scale modelers, but at 4 feet it looks perfect, which is all I'm shooting for.

By the way, to give credit, I didn't make any of this up, I learned it all from reading this forum.
Old 06-23-2004, 12:09 PM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Soldering iron! Don't know how many people use it, but works great for cutting the covering back off the center section of the wing and stab. Put the wing in the fuse, get it all lined up, use a dry erase marker around both sides then take the wing out and use your soldering iron to melt through the covering just to the inside of the line. It sort of melts / seals the edge through to the wood, and the center section peels right out. Put the wing back in place, line up the marker lines, wipe 'em off with a little alcohol on a rag and glue er up. How many use CA to glue wings & stabs in? (we're talking 40 size planes) I've done it on my last two, wicked thin CA in, then used baking soda to make a fillet/fill gaps and wicked more thin CA into that. Haven't had any issues either time, and it's lighter and beats the he!! out of waiting for epoxy to cure.
Old 06-23-2004, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Another thing you can do for a slight fillet is use some canopy clue like RC-56... Got that tip from Matchlessaero... Works great.
Old 06-23-2004, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Oh, I like that... That way if I mess up, I get to start over...

[sm=thumbup.gif]
Old 06-23-2004, 01:26 PM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Hmm, doesn't canopy glue dry clear though? Oh, you are saying just protect the wood and forget about the ugliness you would be able to see underneath.
Old 06-23-2004, 02:19 PM
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Daryl Martel
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Epoxy & microballoons covers the gap well and gives a "finished look". Re epoxy pulling away easily from covering, if the covering is cleaned prior using alcohol, acetone or ketone, the epoxy will adhere very well. Lightly sanding the edge of the covering with fine grit sandpaper just makes it grip even better, but like said previously, the wing/fuse joint must be wood to wood; i.e covering cut away. Personally, once the wing is perfectly aligned in the fuse I tack it in place using a bit of CA and then fill the slight gap in using the epoxy microbaloon slurry. Heating the mess up with a heat gun makes it more viscuous allowing it to run into and fill the gap better. Clean up any epoxy you got where it shouldn't using acetone. Remove the masking tape relatively early on before the glue sets up too much. I smooth the epoxy lightly several times as the glue is curing using the wet finger method - take it easy to avoid smearing. Here is an example of how clean it can look if done properly...

Yes, the method works well for fairing in a canopy too...
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Can't tell by the picture.

Can you add microballons to canopy glue?
Old 06-23-2004, 10:36 PM
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Daryl Martel
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Canopy glue like RC56 or whatever it's called is basically a white glue. Personally I think it's repackaged Weldbond. No, I don't think it's a suitable glue for filling a large gap and I don't think mixing it with microballoons is a good idea either. You've had some pretty good advice here from some pretty experienced builders. There is a reason experienced builders favour certain methods - they've passed trial by fire! Stick with epoxy.
Old 06-26-2004, 10:20 PM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

Hmmm. I just glued the wing in on my Sig Fazer. If I had read this first I probably would have covered it first, but .... covering my ProTwister assembled last year wasn't so bad.


As far as the wing joint goes, I used thin CA first, followed by medium to help with the gap filling and finally used slow cure epoxy mixed with mircroballoons for my fillet and a wetpinky to smooth it out. The instructions call for four pieces of fiberglass cloth to reinforce the joint but I'm pretty sure the fillet will be more than enough - if that lets go I'm sure to be doing some rebuilding anyways!
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Old 06-26-2004, 11:06 PM
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Default RE: What Finishing order is best when building a Profile and Why?

I noticed everyone seems to be wicking in CA for their Wing.....I was going to use Epoxy. Why aren't folks using Epoxy and then doing clean up with Methanol? Gives you 30 Minutes to back sure that wing is straight?

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