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9CAP Programming Help

Old 08-06-2004, 10:31 PM
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Default 9CAP Programming Help

I have finally reached the point where I'm ready to start experimenting with flaperons and spoilerons on my OMP Edge and I'm having a tough time figuring out how to program my 9CAP properly. Unfortunately, no one that I fly with has even the slightest hint about how to do this, so as usual, I turn to the Brotherhood for some advice.

I've read the Futuba manual and from what I can gather, Futuba's definition of flaperons is different from what we're trying to do. Likewise for spoilerons. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, in the 3D world flaperons is when the ailerons move opposite the elevators (elevators up/ailerons down or elevators down/ailerons up) and spoilerons is when the ailerons move in the same direction (elev up/ailerons up or elev down/ailerons down).

I know I need to set this up as a mix and assign it to one of the many switches on my radio, possibly the 3 position switch. I also believe that to work properly, the elevator servo becomes the master and the aileron servos are the slave? Beyond that, I'm totally lost. This stuff is really new to me, please bear with me.

Can someone please walk me through the proper way to set up my radio to achieve this? I would really appreciate it.[8D]

Vince
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Old 08-06-2004, 11:19 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Your definition of flaperons and spoilerons are ok by me.

Ok, my 9CAP is on the charger, so I can’t run through it as I explain it, but I hope it is clear enough from my memory. I will explain setting up spoilerons, and flaperons will be obvious from that.

I’ll assume that you have one aileron servo in RX ch 1, and the other in RX ch 6 (you can’t do this mix with a Y-connector in ch 1 only). If you have it set in two RX channels like this, you already must have activated flaperons in the 9CAP to get them to work. Ok, now you need to make a mix.

Go to the advanced acro menu, and open up *PROG.MIX6. This opens up page 1/2 in this program mix. Change the settings to the following:

POS-1: -100
POS-2: -50
POS-3: 0
POS-4: 50
POS-5: 100

Then, go to page 2/2. Set the following:

MIX: change from INH to OFF or ON
MAS: ELEV
SLV: FLAP
Link: ON

SW: switch of your choice I use B
POSI: UP (my preference)

Hit end – this should make it work. If your ailerons go in the wrong direction with respect to the elevator, change the sign of the numbers in the POS1 through 5 (i.e., positive numbers to negative and vice versa). This can be different on different models depending on whether you have some servos reversed or not.

If the spoileron throws are too much for you, decrease the value of the numbers.

Mike McConnville uses “snap spoilerons” on his Funtana, which would be programmed similarly except:

POS-1: -100
POS-2: 0
POS-3: 0
POS-4: 0
POS-5: 100

This makes the spoilerons come on only at high elevator throws.

Hope this helps,
Kurt
Old 08-07-2004, 03:09 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Kurt,

You nailed it. Thank you very much. Pretty awesome since you did it from memory. I guess you've done it a few times, huh? You saved me hours of frustration, fooling around trying to figure it out. The 9CAP manual and Futuba's FAQ help line were just confusing me more and more since they use the terms spoilerons and flaperons for something entirely different than what we're doing. I'm sure that programming the flaperons will be a simple task now that I understand the relationship between all the different functions. I'll just have to play around with it a little bit now and experiment with different things.

Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks-you just have to show him how to do the trick the first time. [8D][8D]

Thanks again, I really appreciate it. That's why it's so great to be a part of this Brotherhood.

Vince
Old 08-07-2004, 09:38 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

O.K., now I feel stupid again. I've been fooling around with this thing all evening. I can get spoilerons to work off of PROG.MIX6-no problem. I can also get flaperons to work off of PROG.MIX6 by reversing the numbers. I was hoping that I could run both flaperon and spoileron mixes off of the same program by just changing the switch position. Doesn't seem to work that way. My problem is that I can't find another PROG.MIX that will allow me to put spoilerons on PROG.MIX6 and flaperons on the other. My goal is to have spoilerons and flaperons all off of switch C, the three position switch. Up would be flaperons, neutral is neither, and down would be spoilerons. Is this possible to do? What am I missing? Which Program Mix do I need to use for flaperons? None of the other program mixes seem to have the same layout/parameters as PROG.MIX6.

Thanks

Vince
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Old 08-08-2004, 10:48 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

my question for you is why are you using prog mix 6(set up for a point curve) for flap/spoileron? why not just use a linear mix? if you did that then any of the others will work. just pick any two of them and set the mas to "elev" and slav to "flap" set the switch for both these mixes to "c" and the position up for one and down for the other. if you want a non linear mix for both then what abou prog mix 7 (probly being used for rudder to aileron)
Old 08-09-2004, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Chris' idea is a good one. The reason I use PROGMIX6 is because I like snap spoilerons.

Kurt
Old 08-09-2004, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Got it! Thanks Chris, thanks Kurt. Here's what I ended up doing.

Taking Chris' advice, I used PROG.MIX2 and 5. I started with 2 because the initial screen called for an elevator/flap mix. I think you could use any of them and get the same results, maybe not. Here's the settings I ended up with:

Screen 1

[PROG.MIX2] <1/2>
(ON)
(ELEV-FLAP)

DOWN UP
RATE -100% -100%

OFFSET 0%

Screen 2

[PROG.MIX2] <2/2>
MIX ON
MAS ELEV
SLV FLAP
LINK ON
TRIM OFF
SW C
POSI UP

This gives me flaperons (elev up/ailerons down, elev down/ailerons up) and I have it programmed to apply when switch C is in the up position. You can do the same thing on PROG.MIX5 to get spoilerons. The only change to make is to change the -100% to a +100% on both up and down for spoilerons. It works like a charm. You can vary the amount of aileron deflection by changing the 100 to a smaller number. The only problem I encountered while learning this is that I had a tough time toggling back and forth between the two different rate settings. I actually had to exit the program and re-enter it to get at the other value. Has anyone else encountered this? I must have been doing something wrong.

Again, thanks for the help. This was a great learning experience for me. It really falls into place once you get the hang of it. I was trying to do it by reading the manual and it was very confusing.

I'm going to leave both functions on Switch C for now to see how I like it. The nice thing is that it's easy to move to another switch. These mixes are pretty awesome things to play with. Hopefully this will help someone else who may be having the same problem.

Vince
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Old 08-10-2004, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Thanks a lot for your team work .It's exactly what I was looking for.
I experiment with the spoileron in elevator but the result is more
wing rocking.May be I applied to much up aileron .Need more
experimentation.I tried 3 combo:lot,medium ,and low up aileron.
So I setup the elevator with more throw and the result was quite good.
Concerning the flaperon it's very efficient to make small looping.
Amazing.

Thanks a lot ,the timing could not be better.

Phil
Old 08-11-2004, 04:34 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Kurt, you seem to be a wizzzz on the 9 c so I have a question. I just bought a 29% Edge that uses 2 servos for the elevators. How do I set them up?
Thanks for any input.
blue ice
Old 08-11-2004, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

do you mean 2 servo's for the ele or 2 per side of the ele.

if you mean 1 per side then.

in the advanced menu page 2/2 turn ailvator to active. then set the ail rates to 0% . by default i believe this puts the second ele on chanel 8 but i think there is a way to change that not sure.
Old 08-11-2004, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Fonz your good. I did what you said, then plugged battery into channel 7 and elevator works great. Thanks for your quick reply. I am glad I can count on the members of RCU to help with my stupidity.
blue ice
Old 08-12-2004, 10:29 AM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

oh yeah, be sure to set the sub ttrim so that the ele halves are equal at center then set the endpoints so that they are equal on throw.

i had experience with ele servo endpoints being off enough to make it take longer for one side to get to the end than the other.(

this also brought them into alignment.
Old 08-12-2004, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

I would throw a little caution as to having the neautral position in the middle in case of a oh ***** moment when you need to focus on saving your airplane than flipping switches.

Can you program the 9CAP to stop all mixes on a switch?? (ie PANIC BUTTON)
Old 08-13-2004, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Ah this is a perfect thread. I was just working on setting up spoilerons to try them for the first time with my Futaba 9CAP and only took me a few seconds. Thankfully because I found this thread. I will report back to what I prefer and what works for me.[8D]
Old 08-14-2004, 11:54 AM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Okay I have a problem. While setting it up. First let me tell you my set-up

Receiver: Hitec Electron 6 (6 channels, 1 for battery and the other 5 are all filled by the servos)
Radio: Futaba 9CAP
Plane: Morris Topcap

Okay I tried the Pmix 6 and did it -100, -50, 0, 50, 100 flaperons were activated. Elev is mast and flap slave. All the good stuff. Link ON.

I go to flip the switch and pull up elevator, ONLY the RIGHT AILERON servo goes up with it as the other stays. I was fooling around and went to elev/flap on page 2 of 2 with the advanced programs page and turned it on or activated it. It got both ailerons to work, but now I have NO AILERON control lol. There was no way to deactivate it. I had to completely erase ALL information and start all over.

I want to know if I can even do them? I am stumped
Old 08-14-2004, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

I don't have a 9C, but an 8U. There are 2 different mixes you have to run best I can recall. You have to have the FLPRON turned on to get the ailerons and flaps mixed. That's why you only had one working. Then you have to run the 2>6 Mix to get the elevator and flaps mixed. I use PMIX-1 on the 8U, ELE>FLP

Also, if you get it all mixed properly, it might still work wrong. Things like the Flap Ch 6 reversed will make both ailerons go up at the same time. Having the wrong aileron on the wrong channel (Right aileron HAS to be Ch 1) will screw you up. Having the aileron ch 1 reversed will screw you up. ATV's will screw you up.
Old 08-14-2004, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Ah thanks Jeff, it must be how they are plugged into the receiver. I will just leave it for now and work on it more once the Saito gets a good break in.
Old 08-15-2004, 09:57 PM
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Default RE: 9CAP Programming Help

Well, I got the spoilerons to work properly[8D]. I just dumped my model and started from scratch and redid all the settings down to the T. Whatever I did, its working now. I took the plane out in the driveway and put in a new #F OS plug and its running very smooth.

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