AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

I swear D you and TT are sponsored pilots for Accel or maybe Walmart, can't keep that straight!

OMP won't be carrying the Pitts bipe, you'll have to discuss pricing with Accel but you already know that don't you. Also I don't know where you are getting your info on bipes and 3d but it's not accurate at all. Bipes which are designed properly will 3d just fine. I think Mr. Chip Hyde has proven that quite well.

basmntdweller

My Feedback: (9)

Actually, I think Chip Hyde has proven he can 3D anything well! I'll wait and get the Ultimate kit. I just have no idea when I'll have time to build it. I still have a Kat 40 kit and a 80" Yak to build.
Matt

dhooks

My Feedback: (24)

What I meant about bipes...particularly small ones.....Get the wings to close together an you get air compression to far apart you get unreal coupling. Plus in Hi Alpha flight one of your wings is always blanketed for the most part.

Oh am Im sponsered by what my grubby hands can find to sell on the famous auction site. Whatever I buy I usually have to sell 5 things to get it.[:@] So when I buy I try to buy quality as I cant afford to buy things just to see how they work

Aint life sweet though.......

(oops I had to edit some spelling)[:'(]

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah, hooks put way too broad of a spin on the 3D versus bipes thing.

I watched the Chip Hyde Double Vision 3D video dozens of times, how about you guys? Did you see the killer inverted harrier he did? No, why not? Oh yeah, cause he doesn't do one.

Bipes do great upright, and even rolling, but most (not saying all) are an handful inverted at a high AOA. When the top wing begins to wash out the lower wing, the center of pressure and center of gravity get way out of whack, and things change. Maybe Mike hit this one (his Ultimate) just right with spacing and stagger to minimize the effect. We will have to see.

As for coupling in KE, that has been a stigma of many bipes before and probably of many to come. The Goldberg Ultimate has very little, but I don't know why. I had an e-chat via e-mail with Mike McConnville after his big Ultimate came out on working out the bugs of the Sig Ultimate. I was gonna kit bash one based on his advice. He gave me several thoughts, many of which I've shared with folks all over. (Jeremy Chin for one.) But he plainly said that bipes come with a bit of baggage. Inverted 3D is one of the bags, as is KE coupling.

I don't remember getting this much heat when I was telling folks how good OMP treated me last year. I wonder what Morris said behind my back then? Why the change guys? And now I'm a shill Mike? The last time someone called me names online, it was when I tried to get someone (the wrong someone) a fair shake in a dispute with some of my friends. Anyone else remember that around here? Maybe I'm gonna miss out on the Boxxer now. I'm not feeling any love from OMP lately.

Anyway, instead of arguing and getting the thread shut down, lets focus. Yes, the price listed on the Accel Pitts ARF seems a bit high as of right now. So did the price of a Saito 72, until I got one... And whoooo! Who came up with the price of the YS engines? Let's not say it's not worth it until we know? Agreed?

dhooks

My Feedback: (24)

Yea I probably should have clarified better my bipe/3D statement. Bipes can an will 3D but come with a known set of issues that you have to work on. Any one with knowledge about airplane design will know this. ( Im not knowledgeable btw ) Full scale bipes dont have to worry about this since they never spend time in high alpha. (thats changing too)

On pricing I have a Matrix3D that cost about 230 new an has plenty of weight to justify the cost to I might add.[:'(]

When you get into extreme 3D machines ( look at those HUGE ailerons on the Accel Pitts ) you pay for light weight. Its much easier an cheaper to build a heavy overweight airplane then a nice light one.

Can we agree planes with two wings are just plane cool?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Probrodude ... that's all I have to say.

The laws of economics came up with the price, that's who. Plus the fact they are small shop in Japan that make engines that SMOKE Saito.

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

tuggerone? Quid Pro Quo?

My point was that if you compare price to a picture, YS does look overpriced. If you fly one, then you know. Perhaps my sarchasm was lost on you.

Before we doom the Pitts based on a picture and a price, perhaps someone should fly one?

But I guess since you won't be selling them, they won't be good enough anyway.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

But at least tuggerone does not shill, that's just the name of my boat. What you are doing is called a shill, it's a little different.

I didn't know there were rules on the other site like having 2 usernames. I didn't know there were any rules at all.

I'm don't have anything good or bad to say about the Bipe, haven't seen it fly. Accel has informed me that they are only picking up a limited amount on their first run and not enough to distribute. Obviously we think Accel is good enough to run in any model, so please don't think for a second we won't be picking it up because we don't think it's good enough. We've risked our companies image picking Accel knowing how good they are.

I guess you guys don't remember all the crap we went through because we caused a "conflict of interest" with Matt's Katana. Heck we even were accused of stealing Matt's design and giving it to Accel. I'm just glad that you guys are just so gung ho on Accel now. It's funny how things work out ... isn't it. Love us one day hate us the next. I think they call that flip-flopping ... don't they?

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

Hey guys, keep that stuff off line. TT and Hooks, I'm only teasing you guys and I hope you caught my humor. Gotta be able to send it both ways and I know you guys know that.

Actually in all honesty you are correct in the general statements on the bipes. They certainly have their quirks and all of them out there including the big ones do as well. Designers seem to be able to work out some bugs and fix some problems but it's always a compromise in aerodynamics and performance. I worked a lot on my bipe to get the harrier and KE down pat and it does these very well I think. Just wish I could do inverted harriers better myself but again that's one of my goals this year. KE is easy with very little coupling if any on the OMP Ultimate but one thing I noticed with bipes is that the KE coupling does change with speed and AOA. So in other words you can get a real good KE at a slow high alpha and then kick full power and rudder and get a different degree of coupling. This is true even with the giant scale bipes and I know many folks that have to put in a curved mix to compensate. This is really only needed if you are going to fly IMAC type stuff though. We don't fly straight lines do we?

The Accel bipe should be a good close in fun plane to fly. I know Quinn worked hard on it. Just wish some videos were published????

Oh yea, Happy New Year!

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

I was good with OMP long after the Kat kit/ARF thing. Heck Dion, I'm the guy that offered you a ride to Memphis last year, remember? The guy that stood with you when things went bad, or did you forget that too?

I think that the Kat kit/ARF thing was poor timing, bad luck, and mostly the fault of the instant global "sellability" that the internet provides. Without that, the two planes would have existed separately for years before anyone knew. Matt told me he felt the deal was OK, and I'm happy with that.

I didn't find reason to "flip flop" my OMP opinion until much more recently. I like the Ultimate and love the Boxxer. I'm now trying to find a reason to buy the Boxxer from OMP. I'll get over it, and probably order one anyway. AWESOME plane! I'm not as pumped about the Ultimate, as I really like the smaller planes, more so than the bigger ones.

Tuggerone does not shill, but asked about another companies designs in a forum while hiding his true identity. True Dion, that is true you are not a shill. Corporate espionage Dion style perhaps, however?

Anyway, I'm not going to fight anymore. Maybe in the future, OMP will stock the new planes from Accel. Doubtful, but possible. Accel looks to have a much larger line, starting with the Pitts.

The Pitts is a good looking plane, and on paper has a good looking set up. The proto seemed to do well. Several Bros helped with it's concept and development stages, so perehaps it will turn our OK. As a matter of fact, lots of the same Bros worked on the Boxxer with Jeremy too, and that one seems OK. Hopefully the well of knowledge within the Bros will bring us all another new bipe that does what it needs to do, with minimal "bipe versus 3D" shortcomings.

Mike, I've always held you in great respect. Maybe I'm over-reacting to Dions posts and behavior. We all know that the cold screen can hide true intentions on line. ProBroDude came about while RCU was considering letting me post here again. I was a bit impatient. Then it was just funny. ProBroDude vaporized shortly thereafter. Three or four posts I think.

As for the Accel Hobby Pitts ARF, a lower price would surely sell it faster, but the cost is what Accel says it must be. Hopefully it goes the way of YS and proves to be worth it.

We all cool now?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

I know who you are quite well Twister and I'm not looking to go backwards, been down that road not fun.

This is a civilized forum and I'm really glad they keep it that way. Sort of the same reasons they have laws, to keep things under control.

The bottom line is we will be more then happy to pick up anyones airplane or accessories that is up to our standards of top quality. But this does not mean we'll have them all.

Personally I don't think the Bipe is overpriced at all. It takes much longer to produce it and keeping the weight down costs more in materials then keeping the weight up. You cannot compare the price of the Pitts Bipe to the Katana, as there costs are different and so is the labor.

This is the same for the OMP GS planes. Some people think they are expensive. But like I said, costs more to keep weight down then weight up in every aspect, so you have to take that into consideration.

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

Agreed, the path ahead is more friutful than the one behind.

Sorry, this is even worse off topic, but...
As suggestion for OMP would be to talk to Ultra RC and try to get a handful of the 3D Buddy line without motors. I know the packages are a good value, but some of have too many motors already. Maybe I'm in the minority there too.[&o]

It's about time that us folks got some good 3D bipes. Maybe we will be lucky enough to have a few to choose from, right off the bat in 2005.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

I don't think that Ultra-RC is going to go without the brushless for sometime.

It's just the way they come from the factory. For the price they can't be touched, plus the motor is no different then a Hacker BL20, it's the exact same motor.

$175 shipped for ARF, Brushless, ESC, Gear and accessories cannot be beat.

Too many brushless motors????? Come on ... who you trying to kid.

Like I said, they come from China that way. Parts will be available if you dork anything.

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

Maybe I should have said that I spent too much money on motors instead of I had too many motors? Bummer on the combo only thing. I guess one could sell the motor and ESC if they had to.

I like the look of the Edge, and I'm curious about how the Cap will turn out. As long as the math stays the same, they can work the outline into anything, I guess.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

If you have ever not listened to any of my advice before, listen to this one.

Get the Original 3D Buddy over the Edge if you decide to get one. Unless you are more into looks then better 3D.

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

I have the EF Yak version, and I'm probably gonna wait for the Cap. Shane (3Dn'4Life) was interested in the Edge, I'll forward your thoughts to him.

That much difference, huh?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Yip. Videos don't lie either.

I have them both and it doesn't matter to me if you buy either one. I'm just giving you a sound piece of advice.

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

Hey TailTwister, thanks for the warm thoughts. I really like planes so much I'll support and fly anything I think is good. Whether we pick up any future Accel planes is really up to Alex. I love to promote anything that is fun for us profile bros to dork up! But I guess I'm still puzzled by the comments about avoiding a middleman? Doesn't that rule out every distributor and hobby shop in the country? Doesn't really matter though, as long as we all get plenty of toys to keep us happy dring the flying season, that's my motto! I've always taken advice from folks on improving my designs and planes and still do. Heck, my original Edge 540 has gone through about 4 redesigns now. My door is always open for inputs and sometimes we need some new test pilots for planes.

I'm looking forward to flying more with you guys this year and trying out all the new planes on the market. It's tough to have so many choices and not enough funds to play with everything.

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

I might be lost between threads, but I think someone else used the middleman anology, not me. I could be wrong. Lots of threads here. Lots of threads there.

Mike, I hope to hit Effingham and Memphis this year. Maybe I'll get that aerodynamics of knife edge and harriers lecture after all, but in person instead of on RCU.

dhooks

My Feedback: (24)

Hey TT if your buying one I might buy the power system off of you. I thought I had picked one up locally but the guy decided to use it himself.

Mike Im not sure where things went south but if your happy Im happy.
BTW I think I made the middle man comment. I know a lot of stuff has to be gotten through resellers.....its the nature of the biz. But I do prefer to buy direct when I can.
I come on here to have fun so dont take what goes down on here to seriously.

In my best Shaq voice * awww man Im getting da warm an fuzzies *

See you all at the field

Oh hey are we OT yet?

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

You mean the 3D Buddy hooks? I'll be a while, cause I really want to see the Cap version. My EF Yak is still in good shape.

The reason I'm stuck on my power system is simple. It's a 2S system and very light. I have the 5400kv motor, and get good power on a 2S 1500mah LiPo. My battery weight is down by 33% compared to what most folks fly with good capacity. I can fly for 12 to 14 minutes, at 14 ounces even, on my EF Yak (3D Buddy duplicate in most ways). It doesn't slingshot from a hover, but pulls out pretty quick for only 7.4 volts. I've let other Bros fly it, and they couldn't believe it was only 2S.

Unless I really smuck it bad, I'm in no hurry. There is supposed to be an Extra version in the works too. Maybe that one will fly good. If I have to get one, I'll let you know.

Dion, I'm all about the flying. If I wanted to fly a cute plane that doesn't 3D worth a crap, I'll go fly my Mini Funtana I got myself for Christmas...[&o] No sense in ignoring your advice here.

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

Oh yeah, the topic...

Pitts, Pitts, Pitts.

Are we back on topic?

mrbigg

My Feedback: (21)

yea, i want one!

Razorback58

My Feedback: (8)

Can't you just feel the love???

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

Sounds good, I'll be at effingham for sure and a few more. Memphis is quite a hall but Nashville is pretty good. [sm=thumbup.gif]