Hello,

O.K. you 90's Fun-Fly plane guys... I need your opinions.

I've been working on a Fun-Fly competition plane for a while now and was wondering if a 4-stroke engine could give the same performance as the 2-stroke engine with a pipe. Most of you guys, at that time, were using the latter set-up to power your planes. I'm not looking to compete, but would like the same or better performance. Do you think a 4-stroke would be comparable?... better??... or worse???
The kit suggest a 25-35 size 2-stroke engine with tuned pipe. What would be the 4-stroke engine equalivant?

Thanks,
Phil

what size model?

Take a look at the Tower engine page at http://www2.towerhobbies.com/listings/cat-g.html Two stroke engines with a pipe will always make more power compared to a four stroke of the same displacement.

30 or Saito 40 would be the right size/weight I believe. If you run 30% nitro with a large prop it might work for you (but thats a guess).

I would like to take this opportunity to discuss the charicteristics of a piped 2c. Doesn't putting a pipe on a 2c engine make the throttle transition sluggish? To where a 4c has better over all transition authority? Isn't that what 3D planes need? Not the blistering high speed's & horse power sluggishly built up from the supercharged effect of a pipe on a 2c, but the torque available at any position of the left stick that 4c's offer? I could be wrong here because alot of people use the piped 2c engine, I was just wondering what other people thought.

I realize that a hot 2c setup is probably what Ohyeah need's here (I don't know about a pipe though) but I was talking about the next few sizes up where you could get a supercharged 4c in place of a piped 2c. Does anybody know of a supercharger system designed for the 30-40 size 4c's?

What is this mystery plane anyway Phil?

It's a Yankee Twister plane. The kits were available around 1992. Picked up this kit, here recently, to have something a little different. It has a V-tail instead of the conventional tail. Also has a 48" wingspan with a golf club shaft fuse. Looks similar to a Stick-it, Smith Special plane.

This is what I am thinking too!! These type planes(Yankee Twister, Stick-it, Smith Special) were designed for limbo, spot landing, and Roops events and were not intended to go fast... just to be quick at the maneuvers and get on the ground. That's why I am wondering if a 4c would be as good or better.

At that size it's a tough call. I don't have any experiance with the small 4c's, but if they are anything like the bigger saitos they could make good little 3D flying engines, but sound's like your gonna need something a bit different. Maybe the piped 2c is what your looking for, something that could get you up through the moves and back in a hurry.

8178 made a good point, at this size a piped 2c will take a little time to "spool up" but once it does youl be of the ground and into your 1st manuver way faster than any 4c setup at this size that I know of. The only thing is the timing of the throttle will be laggy. If you were looking to compete I think the piped 2c would be your best bet, but it does not sound like you intend on competing so maybe experimenting with a 4c setup would make for more controlled aerobatics.

Basically I don't know, but I like to talk about it

Puh-Lenty of experience with models such as this....the YT, Stick-It, Diamond Unlimited, Lil' Rippy, etc, et al.

The engine of choice back in the day (early 90's) was almost universally the Webra .32 with a mousse can "pipe", and a 10-3 Rev-Up wood prop. Nothing sluggish about it. Acceleration from idle to WOT is about as fast as is mechanically possible with ANY engine...

These models aren't for hovering, etc.....they're all about in-your-face loops, etc faster than you can count 'em.

Most have a very short life span too. <GGGG>

Ooopps!!!... Double Posts... Sorry!!

Thanks for the help guys.

I think I'm going to get a OS LA 40 and just have some fun with this plane. Was looking at the OS 32 but, whew... pricey little engine--(that's why I was asking about the 4c, because, by the time I get the OS 32 with a pipe ,I could have bought a nice 4c engine). I think for just messing around, the LA 40 with a tuned pipe will do.
What do you guys think??

Thanks

Questionable as to whether the LA engine would benefit much from a true "tuned pipe". For certain, the added weight (even a few additional ounces are DEATH on these models) is not to your advantage!!!!

If you just want to have fun.....run the engine with the stock muffler. You might make a mousse can exhaust (very lightweight) and experiment with that.

Keep it simple, and it'll be fun.

If you're going to buy a 40 LA just for your Yankee Twister, do yourself a favor and get a Thunder Tiger 42 GP instead. Same weight, less money, more power, and a better running engine.

See my avatar? That's a Stickit IV with an OS 46 LA and a mousse can pipe. I never flew the Stickit in competition, just for fun. During it's lifespan, this Stickit was also flown with an OS 32, Webra 32, TT Pro 36, TT 40 GP, OS 40 FP, and a TT 42 GP.......all with MCPs. Out of all these engines, the TT 42GP w/MCP was my favorite in the Stickit.

A 2c with a properly setup tuned pipe won't be sluggish, but it will be more like having an "on-off" switch on the engine instead of a throttle. This is exacty why I don't use tuned pipes on 3D planes.

But don't confuse a tuned pipe with a Mousse Can Pipe. They are not the same thing.


I agree that 3D planes need an engine with very good transition characteristics, but I don't agree that a 4c does it better. A 2c with a MCP will run and throttle as good or better than any 4c.


When it comes to 3D flying with a 2c, a tuned pipe is your worst nightmare.

But a Mousse Can Pipe is a 3D pilot's dream come true! A MCP can give nearly the same power boost as a tuned pipe, but without the annoying "on-off" syndrome. A properly setup MCP on a 2c will have a very linear and instantaneous feel on the throttle stick......almost like an electric motor.

Here's a link to a video of one of my planes. The engine is an old OS 40 FSR with a MCP spinning an APC 11x4. Crank up the volume and listen to how the engine instantly responds to even the slightest changes in the throttle stick.

http://the******************.com/~vi...ddd_video1.wmv

Even the 40 LA will respond very well to a MCP, but the TT 42 GP just does it much better......especially for 3D and sport flying with one of the old Stickit type planes.

Thanks guys!!!

I have not had any experience with the TT motors... been a loyal OS and Saito man, but I think you have talked me in to trying one of these TT's.
The kit calls for a 25-35 size motor. Should I go with the TT-36 or the TT-42 GP?? I will most likely use the stock muffler for a while 'till I'm ready for the MCP.

Thanks

Oh Yeah!!!!!... AWESOME flying and Video Dave!!!!!!

Killer video Dave!!! Is there someplace we can go to see more of your video's? I guess there in the Pro Bro website I have been trying to register, but I think I'll have to create a new email address because I never got the sign up email.

Thank's for setting me straight on the pipe deal. Look's like mousse can pipe's are awesome. I just googled mousse can pipe's and a bunch of info showed up on how to build and set one up.

Yep, I was a die-hard OS fan......until I bought that OS 46 LA you see on the Stickit. That engine soured me on OS, and convinced me to try a Thunder Tiger.......and I'm glad I did! I now own several TT Pro 46s, a TT Pro 61, a TT Pro 120, a TT Pro 36, and several TT 42 GPs. I've been very pleased with all of them.


The TT Pro 36 and the TT 42 GP weigh almost exactly the same, so weight isn't an issue. I preferred the TT 42 over the TT 36 because the 42 has slightly better throttling characteristics, especially in the mid-range where the 36 tends to load up.


The stock muffler will work fine, but once you try the MCP you're going to kick yourself for not trying one sooner.

I used to have a few videos posted on www.rcuvideos.com, but since they "upgraded" a few days ago, those videos seem to have disappeared.

I've got several videos posted on the probro site. Here's some examples:

http://the******************.com/for...-box_files.wmv

http://the******************.com/for...agle_2_arf.wmv

http://the******************.com/~vi...ddd_finals.wmv

TT-42 GP it is... Thanks Dave!!!!

What's the best way to build a MCP??

Just watched the other vids. AWESOME!!!! The X-box is Cool!!

Go here: http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/
Look under the CONSTRUCTION link for the Mousse Can Muffler building instructions.

Use a can that measures exactly 1.75" diameter. The length of the can be anywhere between 6.5" and 7.5 but the 1.75" diameter is critical.

Adjust the header length so the distance from the rear of the header mounting flange to the can measures 4.5" to 4.75" with only about 1/8" of the tubing sticking inside the can.

The exhaust tubing should be 5/16" ID. The length doesn't matter. In fact, I don't even bother with the exhaust stingers anymore. Just open up the nozzle end of the can to 1/4" and start from there. Make sure you remove all of the nozzle parts (rubber washers, springs, and plastic pieces)

For the TT 42 w/MCP a Master Airscrew 11x4 works great.

Thanks a bunch Dave!!!

Too good man! I'm gonna have to get into the Pro Bro website to see all the video's and updates.

Dave... one more question?... What mouse can do you like the best??(Brand name)

Thanks