model tech magic 3d
 

Has anyone assembled/flown this plane? What were the flight characteristics, modifications, etc.

I have started assembling mine and have made the following mods: Stronger spar joiner, braced the rear main gear block with triangle stock, and used a more conventional main gear instead of the stork legs up front. A center dowel and wing bolts to hold the wing down instead of the rubber bands. Epoxied or thin c/a'd everything i could reach on the fuse.

Any other tips would be appreciated. I plan on powering mine with an os 32 and macs pipe, 11/3 or 11/4 APC prop, and use standard servos(are those too weak to handle the large surfaces???)

I read the thread on the other reallly slow message board, and there seemed to be a 50/50 split on feelings towards this plane, with a weak spot in the fuse.

Hope to hear some info (good/bad/or indifferent) soon,
Thanks,
Steve

model tech magic 3d
 

11!!! on a 32,, ooooh nooo you need a 10 x 4 for instant responance.
Standard servos are fine.
Magics suffer from weak rudder fins, beef yours up.
there are two in our club and they both broke, and those flyeres dont even throw them about

model tech magic 3d
 

I've flown a couple of these now. Both have TT Pro .46's on them and in my opinion, thats a bit much for it, but it handles it well. The guys I know with them tend to think of them as hotrods and not fun fly planes, they seldom throttle down and their throws are extreme to say the least. I've seen the Magic handle power dives, one after another, and to my shock, it came out ok.
It's a pretty capable plane, you probably wont need high torque servos unless you intend to compete in NCFFA meets or similiar with it. If your still concerned, you can always use a 6.0v battery pack for a little more oomph.
I think they usually come out around 3 1/2 lbs.
The only thing I didnt like was the cheesy shelf paper type covering and lack of steerable tailwheel, but that won't bother you too much unless your flying off a hard surface. ( I am)

Good Luck !

Foamguy

magic 3d
 

Thanks for the info and tips

I have been playing with props on that os32 for a couple months on a model tech extra 300. It weighs in at 3 3/4 lbs, and will climb vertical at half throttle, with an 11/3. With it getting colder this weekend, I had to drop to a 10/5 (closest size i had onhand) and it would still perform great. When it was warmer, I could turn an 11/4 on it, and it would lag down a lil bit doing tumbles. I was going to pull the motor out of that plane, and drop it in the magic, but the darn thing flies soo good, I am having second thoughts. I know the magic has twice the wing area, twice the control throw area, and twice the airfoil thickness, but man, it is just something to fly totally different styles just by changing a prop. I can put an 9/7 or a 9.5/6 on it, and slice thru the sky like a pylon racer,(which on a plane that small is quite a feat to keep an eye on), or go to the larger prop and do some great spins and waterfalls.


Anyway, back to the magic. Thanks for the tip on the rudder/fin. I will make up some wires or triangle stock to reinforce it. How well did you like the pull/pull linkages? I am thinking of changing those out for 20 lb test spiderwire braided kevlar fishing line(rated at about 45-55 lb test monofilament). Should shave off a small amount of weight there.

Steve

model tech magic 3d
 

pull/pull is great for rudder, gives huge movements, but i use push rod for elevator, just to get the stiffness there, just keep those lines nice and slack free & PLEASE! dont use plastic clevises

Re: magic 3d
 

[QUOTE][i]

Anyway, back to the magic. Thanks for the tip on the rudder/fin. I will make up some wires or triangle stock to reinforce it. How well did you like the pull/pull linkages? I am thinking of changing those out for 20 lb test spiderwire braided kevlar fishing line(rated at about 45-55 lb test monofilament). Should shave off a small amount of weight there.

Steve [/B][/QUOTEpull/pull is great for rudder, gives huge movements, but i use push rod for elevator, just to get the stiffness there, just keep those lines nice and slack free & PLEASE! dont use plastic clevises]

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

I used pull pull for both rudder and elevator.......with plastic clevises!!! I hope the airplane Gods don't strike me down!!!
Gonna do the test flight tomorrow...I think.

model tech magic 3d
 

Ok, pull/pull ok for elevator 2, rods are just my fave, but you gotta swap those links, you may live today, maybe tomorrow... but one day, this will happen........
www.rcflyers.fsnet.co.uk then crash links for some more plastic link victims

modeltech 3d
 

love mine. Bought a back up, just in case. Im using os46 and it hoovers at about 5 clicks throttle. I used 4-40 pull pull cable instead of there wires, and it works great. I have banged it doing tail touches and havent had any problems yet. I havent even beefed up my tail yet. Figured Id wait til I knock it off. Ive got a cool pic of hanging on the deck but dont know how to put it here. Someone let me know and Ill post it here. I will try to put it in.

Good luck with yours

dave

model tech magic 3d
 

just underneath there is a box marked Attach file... click browse and find the pic on your hd, then open, it'll attach this to your post

modeltech 3d
 

Thanks Phillybaby
Here goes, I tried that last time but it didn' t work

Still didn' t work, must be too big of a file. Guess Ill need help shrinking pictures. Any help would be appreciated. I know how to run my computer radio though.

Try this link for the pic.
http://www.foxvalleyaero.com/newslet...001/page6.html

Shrinking Pics
 

A really easy and free method of shrinking BMP's and JPG's is to use Paintbrush that comes with Windows. Click Image then Stretch/Skew, and put an equal percentage in both Horizontal and Vertical fields and presto. Save the shrunken pic as a new pic. I've found that the 85k limit allows a large JPG pic.
-Tom

Magic 3D
 

3dpilot, Where are you running your CG for good hovering with your Magic? If behind the recommended 4 1/2" how does it affect the overall fly-ability of the plane? Also, what is the overall weight with the OS 46? Thanks for any info. you can give me.
Bob C.

model tech magic 3d
 

Bob

cant rember the actual number of cg, but I balance all mine at the furthest back of there suggestions. So what ever that is it what its balanced at. Sorry Im not full of answers. And I dont know what the weight is. But it is very light. Im waiting to fly my buddies with a 53 four stroke. I think it will be too heavy of a motor though. Im not crazy about the way it flies, seems to waddle at slow speeds. Mainly because the rudder is not that effective. I have prob. 45-50 degrees throw in the rudder. I can fly along and crank in all the rudder and it barely shows. When doing tail touches, I can bend the rudder stick to straiten up and it still doesn't do much. I usually use alot of aileron and elevator to keep it strait. I know that sounds weird but that is what works for mine. Whats cool though is at 1ft off the ground and quickly give it left aileron and it does a supersonic torque roll. (NOT torque) but roll.

Magic 3D
 

Thanks 3D,

I was just curious. Mine came in at 3Lbs. 12 Ozs. with an old K&B 40 (very light @ Approx. 12 Ozs.), Hitec 225 mini-servos, and a triple A NiMH battery pack. It balanced about a 1/4" ahead of the recommended point and it flies very smoothly but I can't even come close to a hover. Reckon it's time to start moving the CG back.
Bob C.

model tech magic 3d
 

Bob:

Heres what I do. come in like your landing, just before you stall, then pull up and add just enough power to sustain, you almost mush into hanging. then drop throttle one click at a time. Sometimes it comes down fast. but then just quick on and off the throttle til you maintain. to keep it from torqueing dont go 90 degrees, keep it about 85 degrees. just practice.

ps if your not using a 12.25x3.75 prop your almost waisting your time. that is the perfect prop for hoovering with a 40-46.

magic rudder
 

That is not the first complaint ive heard about the magic's weak rudder. I am still wavering on selling mine to wingspan99, or slicing the hinges and building a larger rudder. I would assume it would need wires or some other methods of strengthening. How much larger do you think the rudder needs to be? I am thinking mine should be around 3 3/4 max, which should equate to a blast with the os32 and the macs pipe. It takes my 3 3/4 lb extra and accelerates it obscenely while vertical. What is the thinking behind the 46 and up sized motors on this airframe? Is it just "because it was there", or am i just powering mine too low? I thought the intent of this plane was to be low, slow, and vertical. I would think that with that massive amount of wing area, you could take it up high, shut it off, and fly it like a sailplane. I may keep the 32 in my extra, and find a used cheap supertigre 45 for it, if it seems like it needs more power. Shoot, I think this thing would fly nicely with an la 46 swinging an 11/5, 11/6, or maybe even an 11/7 APC.

Keep posting guys,
Steve

model tech magic 3d
 

IF i rember right, and i forget what I had for breakfast sometimes, this is the motor they suggested. again the max motor. It makes a perfect combo. My rudder is not weak, structurally, just not real effective. I love the kit. it is great for what it was bought for. HOOVERING> it does that well. I just dont care for the way it flies. I just finished a edge profile for the same reason. it s alot easier practicing tail touches with these planes than with the giant extras and edges and caps. There is absolutely no PUCKER factor with these $99 planes. And there alot of fun to just throw around and try new things. Dont get rid of yours just have fun with it.. Whats the worst thing that could happen???????

Modified version
 

I've been flying this plane for about 4 months now. I renamed it a flys funny instead of a 3D funfly. I crashed it twice due to the fact that you tend to fly it on the hairy edge all the time. Kinda like you get what you deserve! I have rebuilt it recently and made some pretty effective modifications. I removed the wing tips and made the tail completly over. It now has a much larger elevator and rudder with countr balance built into them. I redesigned the fin to allow more support to the fuse. I also added struts to better support the stab and fin. I have a honking Enya 50SS up front and am using the 12.25X3.75 APC prop. THe planes does alot of unbeleivable undescribable stunts but the thing I think is does best is harrier landings. Srap the POS landing gear and put a big pair of wheels on.All in all for the money shes a blast to fly. Mine weighs 3.9 pounds and I too have the cg at 4.5". Good luck with yours.

Magic
 

OK,
I've had mine still in the box waiting for good info and I have been putting in mass amounts of CSM sim time with the desire to 3D hover torque roll with no pucker factor.....I will be using an YS63 4S as this is the same weight as most 46, I will put Center line of a 12 oz fuel tank exactly right on the c/G balance. this being the big plus with YS and pressurized fuel system, using a 12.5.5 graupner for prop, 9K rpm, should thrust vector pretty well....
I think I'll add functional tail wire as mentioned......I plan on a target weight of 3.5-3.75, with bolt on wing...I've heard the flat bottom airfoil sucks for outside and inverted stuff, and am seriuosly considering 3" of anhedral in the wing..It may look funny but should have no adverse effect, and improve on yaw coupling. any input....OH and I will be using a HYDE sport soft mount as this is my personal belief that any ARF should have, since all the glue joints are hot melt and very poor bonding penetration, this mount is unbelivable on vibration dampening..
With a slow responding rudder as mentioned, has anyone actually tried using the hyper expo instead of the dampening expo on the rudder?

Re: Magic
 

[QUOTE]
I will be using an YS63 4S as this is the same weight as most 46, I will put Center line of a 12 oz fuel, a 12.5.5 graupner for prop,
I think I'll add functional tail wire as mentioned......I plan on a target weight of 3.5-3.75, with bolt on wing OH and I will be using a HYDE sport soft mount.

I only have a little OS .28 with a small nylon mount and a light weight 9 X 6 prop in one and it weighs a whole 3.75 pounds. There were a few ounces of fuel in the tank when I took this picture. Taking out the OS .46 and lead necessary to balance eliminated 13 OZ. Good luck!!! :)

model tech magic 3d
 

Dean,
I build with carbon fibre hence the c/f...The hyde mount is less than the a dave brown, uses only (3) 4-40 mounting bolts to firewall,(smaller blind nuts) I have titanium for engine bolts, the ys needs no 4 oz muffler setup only an elbow, the landing gear will be carbon with foam tires, mini servos 225hitecs for controls,JR321 for throttle, mini rx, JR xrta pack, Jett bladder tank no clunk or brass, the functional tail flying wires are .060 Spectra kite string ,,,this is just a short list of ways to save weight, my club members think I'm anal about weight, ya think? guaranteed no lead will be added, will put battery in tail if I have too..........I always take the model and hang it from an eyebolt directly on the CG point, I then lay components on exterior to get an idead were everthing needs to go to get perfect balance fore/aft left/right..........

Landing gear
 

Dean,
Were is the funky wire landing gear?
Sparky

magic info
 

I have been flying mine for a couple weeks now, with an TT 36 heli motor, tail wires, and standards for receiver and servos. mine weighs in at 3lbs 13 oz, no lead anywhere. I moved my battery pack to under the radio tray, and used a miniservo for the throttle, next to the tank.

Why would you want to run a 12 oz tank? That is twice the size of the original tank. I installed a 4 oz right from the get go, and get 15 min flights routinely. Would prob go 20-23 mins if i were just puttin around doing touch n gos. A ys 63 is overkill for that plane. If you end up around 4 1/2 lbs on this plane and it is going to lose alot of its floating abilities. Also, there is not enough room to mount a 12 oz tank in the plane, and still have it balance without alot of ballast in the back.

magic wing bolt
 

I did a single 1/4-20 nylon bolt for the wing. I epoxied in a piece of light ply under the rear wing area. I also sank one of the dowels they give for the rubber bands in the front of the wing, as I joined it, and cut a slot in the front former. I also reinforced the top of the former with a small piece of light ply. I started out drilling and tapping for 2, and screwed up the wing alignment, and opted for a single instead. Two will do alot more damage when ya dork the plane (all of these are on borrowed time ya know :D ). One should snap off with less damage. Thats why you can see a total of three holes in the top part of the wing. I didnt have a monokote iron handy and was anxious to get it in the air, so I havent covered over them.

one last pic
 

Heres a shot of the nose, to show the motor mounting. I believe that is a hayes circular mount that I had on my extra. It had my os 32 on it, and the engine tab holes were the same. I have the motor turned almost 90 degrees, to let the heli pipe point downward.

WHY YS63?
 

A YS 63 is 15oz, the box says a 46/2C or 52/4C...@ 3.5lbs, a 32/36 with muffler is going to way 13-14oz at least, this plane is for hoverbatics, to do hoverbatics you are thrust vectoring, hence why a 4C is much better than 2C since the power band is were you need it, not at WOT...in my area ys63 on fazer profiles are the norm @ 3.5lbs, 12 oz will fit spot on CG mark which is the best place for fuel load not to effect performance, this also is not possible without the ys pressurized fuel management. I can then move servos if need be to tail and short C/F or titanium rod hookups, the diff in engine weight I am easily making up with mini radio gear and no muffler needed, so why do you think it would exceed the weight of a 32/36 equipped model, what weight figures are you using to calculate this? list your exact radio gear and engines and I'll get the published weights......thanx in advance as I do not want this thing to go beyond 3.75lbs...

model tech magic 3d
 

OK. CF. I see where you could get the weight down. I don't know about that particular engine's weight. Plus every scale is off a little. Agreed on the string thing...it works. On the magic with the K&B 6.5 I have the 1100 mil pack under the vertical fin.

model tech magic 3d
 

I would just be concerned about there being too much weight offset at the ends (nose and tail) to make it stable. I don't think that doing surgery on the rear of the plane to put servos there is going to leave it with enough strength in the event of a hard dorking. There are ways to get the weight down, like you mentioned, with the titanium rods, etc.

I have my 1600 nimh pack under where the throttle servo is on the original configuration, and went with as small a tank as practical. By the time i go thru 3 1/2 oz, I am ready to land. I am still experimenting with setups, throw, and may need to add 1/2 oz to the tail to liven it up some, but I am taking my time with it. You definately do not need a 12 oz tank, I wouldnt go larger than 8.


As for the posted weight on the box, the three online reviews about the magic all came in at over the posted weight. It's the same concept as the DPM extra coming in at 11 lbs, its possible, but isnt probable. I know I could save maybe 3 oz by goin to mini servos, but to me that cost isnt justified at this time.

Don't get me wrong, I am by no means trying to flame you by going with the larger motor, more power to you, no pun intended. After flying mine and seeing how much vertical acceleration I have, I just couldnt imagine the 63 on there.

I used .024 music wire for my tail wires, so far so good on it.

Please post pics of your magic, I would love to see it with that big honkin motor on it.

Steve

Model Tech Magic
 

I'll have to go along with Steve on this one. The only way to get a Magic at 3.75 Lbs. with that porky YS on it would be to seal the wings and fill them with helium. My Magic with a 12 Oz. engine, 5 Ea. Hi-Tec 225's, a 4 AAA cell NiMH battery pack, a Hi-Tec 555 R'cvr, and a 6 Oz. fuel tank, Weighs 3.75 Lbs. Totally stock. I have a ball flying it, slow flight is unbelieveable. My only criticism
is a kind of slow rudder response at very low or zero air speed. I think it must be because the rudder is blanked from the prop-wash by the wing. By the way, if any one wants a light strong engine with incredible throttle response, look at the Leo .37 sold by Just Engines. Mine was here 8 days after I ordered it.

p.s. I think the stock LG is really cool, lends a little individuality to the Magic (definately sets it apart).

Bob C.

model tech magic 3d
 

Will plane knife edge, or is it mainly for hovering.what types of manuvers can you do with this plane.

Planes capabilities
 

This plane is really just a kick around flyer. It is terrible at knife edges and outside loops. It has a rather flat bottom to the wing. It is great at slow flight, hovering,flat spins inverted and upright,harriers, but the thing it does that makes people notice is when you go in a 60 degree inverted climb full bore and go into an inverted snap roll full bore. It will just flip over and over in the sane spot for ever and real blast!!! I have a pic of a tail servo install on my 1st Magic I since have gone to installs in the fuse.

model tech magic 3d
 

< but the thing it does that makes people notice is when you go in a 60 degree inverted climb full bore and go into an inverted snap roll full bore. It will just flip over and over in the sane spot for ever and real blast>

Amen on the snappy in place snaprolls!! I somehow got mine into a rolling circle just by holding the right stick in the lower right hand corner. I just keept going around in a 60' circle with no input from me! Did this for almost two minutes without losing altitude!!

model tech magic 3d
 

I will third that comment about the climbing straight up and out. Yesterday, we went flying at lunchtime here, and we had 15-20 winds, gusting to maybe 25 max. That was more than enough wind for my taste, but wingspan99 was doing the coolest balloon maneuvers, where he would just point it straight into the wind, nose the plane up a lil, climb and float backwards, drop the nose and float forward, all at fast idle. I actually backed it up quite a few times as well, but not to the extent he did(21 years of flying vs 2). He was also doing harrier rolls into the wind with it, almost like a pinwheel, but the fuselage area just isnt going to hold it alone.

It wont knifeedge well, but the slow speed flight is great. I've been doing 45 degree harrier passes less than 10 ft off the deck, walking alongside the plane for 100 feet or so, it stalls about 5-7 mph, and even then, its more of a mush. a quick shot of power, and youre back in the game. That advertisement is true, youre friends will be amazed at how fast you got so good. Its magic LOLOL.

As a matter of fact, its on charge in the back of the truck, i think some lunchtime flying is in order again today.

You might want to take some true red monokote or ultracote and cover the firewall, it adds a lil better look to the nose.


It looks like an old timer, but flies like an old timer on steroids!!!!

model tech magic 3d
 

Lunchtime flying?? I thought I was the only one sick enough to do that.... I've got my SuDoKhoi in the back seat of my Contour... gonna got out today for a little low and slow.....

Crashin machine
 

The biggest complaint I have about the plane is the amount of times I've crashed it. I'm usually pretty careful with my equipment but this plane will keep you on the edge so much that it's bound to get you in trouble fast. I have modified the plane in the rebuilds and now have a very effective 3D tail section with much larger surfaces and counterbalances. I think that there's going to be alot of these planes showing up at the fields in the near future.
If you guys want to see something interesting check out the Weston Cougar 2000 the the following site. http://www.westonuk.co.uk/cougar_2000.htm
It looks like a near carbon copy of the Magic. If any one has any knowledge of this plane let us know what you think of it. Thanks Mike

lunchtime flying
 

We try to go at least 3 days a week at lunch, weather permitting. We are about 10 mins from our field, and bring sammiches to engulf on the way. Fly 2-3 flights, put them back in the vehicles, and back to work in about 1hr 15 mins. We are salaried, and our bosses are abour 600 miles away, and trust us (thats a scary thought). They are cool with it, because they know we will address any problems if they come up. We actually had one of them up on the buddy box during his last visit, and he thought it was a blast. We also fly small planes now (.25 extra, magic 3d, and a somethin extra, so we dont even have to bolt the wings on n off, they fit complete, and are on charge in the back of the truck. We have even taken conference calls at the flying field on our cell phones. I keep trying to get our club president to get us electrical and a telephone line, so we can work via laptop and virtual networking (then we would never be at the office)


Some of the best fun we have is just by taking one plane, and taking turns flying it, while the other videotapes or takes digital pics

Lunchtime flying
 

Wow... That sounds allot like my situation... Only my boss is 1800 miles away and has too much on his plate to care..... He's a great guy....

I just wish I had someone to go with me..... I always fly alone unless some other guy shows up at the field which is infrequent... :(

But I still have a blast flying at lunch... All my planes are funfly's that fit in my back seat so I don't have to mess with the wings either...

model tech magic 3d
 

well, our field is usually desolate at that time. My coworker is also my next door neighbor, who also suckered me back into flying after a 10 year lull, so i have no escape. We have flown small foam hand launch zagi wings off our balcony here on the 4th floor, thermaling off the air currents hitting the bldg, and landing in the parking lot. we also have a couple of foam toy planes with dowels on them where we talk about aerobatic moves, as well as whiteboard out designs. its amazing we get anything done at all.

**Famous last words "Hey y'all, watch this"

model tech magic 3d
 

SteveZero - are you in IT?

IT
 

I was going to ask you the same thing Paul. I handle alot of cisco and nortel gear, WAN/Infrastructure. How bout you? Where in TN are you? I had to go to Clarksville over the weekend due to a system crash. If I would have known that there was a field just down the road from the facility I went to, I would have left my magic in the truck.