practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Hey Karl, I'd take your email out of your signature because these web spiders will grab it and next thing you know you'll be getting hundreds of spam emails a day...

I learned the hard way...

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Done

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

I'm dying to go out and try some of these suggestions, but when I tried breaking in my ys 63, it would hardly reach full throttle. When it finally did, it shook and rattled real bad. I read a lot of posts on engine clinic about break in etc. So I think I'm doin' everything right. I'm tempted to send it to ys, called and they were closed for some fishing comp.. This may not be the thread to discuss this (I'm absolutely soaking up all your sugg.!) but here it goes. > I' using 15%morgan cool power w/20% oil, tried ys and o.s. plugs, checked valve clearence-.003", low end 1 turn out, high end 2 1/2 turns out(Dave from ys posted it should be 1 1/5- 1 2/5, tried that BRIEFLY), using 13x6 apc(balanced), noticed lifter noise was quite loud (click?) when turning over by hand. Man I'd hate to have to wait for ys to check it out, but for the $ I spent, I'm almost sick its's not running right (maybe it's me)???????????????????????????????????? P.S. I like to use my thumbs and forefingers on the sticks instead of just thumbs( thinking about trying one those trays that hang from your kneck
) anyone see any advantage or disadvantage to this? To me it seems more precise. ( I know, your going to say what ever I'm comfortable with) just curious what you hoverers are doing?

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

JIVE TURKEY,
first off, if you don't have one go buy a tach. That is what your going to need, to set this motor. If your not familiar w/ a 4stroke you will end up buring it up trying to set it by your ear. Get a tach. Your fuel is OK. I use bryon YS 20/20. I am also using a OS "F" plug.

Here is how you set the high end. Get a tach. Open it up about 2 1/2 turns. Start motor. let it warm up for about 30 seconds or so. Take off glow starter. slowly advance throttle to full throttle, while holding plane of course. then start leaning it out. Take it up to peak RPM then back it off about 800RPM.

Then I would run 2 tanks thru it at that setting on ground. Let it idle for a while, advance throttle to midrange, for a while, then run it at full throttle for about 30 seconds. Then take it back to idle and do it again.

Then after 2 tanks, then Full throttle peak it out then back it off about 800RPM, go fly it like this for the rest of the day. Before each flight check peak it out then back it off about 800. It will take about 1 gallon or so to break in this engine. After about 1 gallon you can run it off of peak about 500RPM. After your break it in. Set your needle the first of the day, then leave it alove for the rest of the day.

Dave Shadel is the YS GURU. Listen to him. I learned a ton of info about my YS63.

I am turing a 13x6APC at 11,400 peak here in memphis, TN. I set it to fly about 10,800.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

you guys will think im crazy. Im useing a midwest citabria to hover. I thought it was about 12 pounds, but it come to 7-8 we think. powered by a ASP .90 2 stroke it has unlimited vertical. I have had it hovering for a few seconds till the engine couldnt suck fuel. A fuel pump in the mail now, and if its not here in a few days ill run rich so i can hover for a longer period of time. Do you think im crazy for hovering a bush plane, or is it just interesting it can do it?

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

it's coo.............I'd be happy to hover my knife, which is the king of hovering........... i'm told...........except maybe a 33% extra, or a pbf, but a citabria<>airbatic..............it's coo!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

note to self; i WILL hover the knife!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

I think youll be able to hover no problem. With a plane over powered, and you do it just right, i think you can do it. If I can do it with my citabria, you can do it with your knife!!!!!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

GBOND

Enjoyed the video. I didn't see much (any?) Elev --> Flap mix on your Knife.

I think most developing tail-touchers* find it easier to consistently stay safe on the deck with the extra pitch response this mixing affords.

(I usually turn it off if I'm just torque rollin' to lessen the pitch response.)

At some point in your progess, it won't really matter. After a while, you'll be able to hover a Four-Star 60 on low rates just from knowing how to keep it upright & stable!

* - You'll know if this is you, because for a while, hovering & tail-touches consume all of your conscious thought.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

I don't know what is going on with your YS, but you really ought to wait and talk to Dave or someone that really knows their YS engines. I could tell you how to break it in too, but that won't help you with your problem.

I would not run it again until you know more...Make sure you're using a fuel filter and clean out the regulator. If your tank has the smallest leak in the world, it will completely kill the performance of the engine and kill the engine in the process! Checking the tank won't do it, most of the time you have to replace it to know if that was the problem. Not getting to full throttle sounds exactly like a pressure problem. Get new lines and a new tank...MAKE IT TIGHT!

Do not fly if you're not COMPLETELY satisfied with how the engine is running. Talk about a way to ruin your day! Nothing is worse than a bad running engine, especially one that dies when you're trying to learn this stuff.

Keep us updated on the engine...

I also wanted to say, don't expect this hovering thing to come quick. It takes most people a good year to really get to the point to want to get to. Take your time, don't rush ANYTHING, and enjoy every minute of it.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

...yep, hovering does take a while - and the challenge definitely adds a new dimension to the hobby!...

...ScottK - you're right, i wasn't using any Elev. - Flap mix - i'll try it the next time out...

...Jive Turkey - when you get the YS figured out, it should be awesome on the Knife...

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Termagator - "What if the tips of your ailerons are all beat to BILLY HELL?<GRIN>...G" - would that mean that you're flying off of asphalt?

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

I'm going to post a ? on ys engine forum, to see what dave thinks. I WANT to hover tommorow, so to speak, but thanks for the reality check, that it won't come that soon!...........another note to self; learn to hover this year, but have fun doing it!!!! Be determined, but don't get discouraged! It's all about havin' fun flyin' and becoming a better pilot all around, which "trying", at least, to hover will help me do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Jive Turkey,
Dave will tell you, like you stated before, You will have to lean your motor out to get it to run right. It won't run right that rich at 2 1/2 turns out. it runs great at approx 1 1/2 turns out. YS 63 has some lifter noise. As long as your Gap is set right, go with it. don't forget you will need to check your Gap when the motor is cold.

Bottlerocket is right as well. If you have the smallest leak in your fuel system, it won't run right either. To test if you have any leaks in your fuel lines and system. Fill the tank about half full. Then with NO Glow starter, just turn the prop over about 20 times. Then let it set for a few minutes. then after a few minutes, take off a fuel line. If it makes a hissing sound. Your in good shape. Your fuel system is OK.

But you will need a tach to set this motor. You can't get it set right by tring to tune it by ear. Your low end will have to be set with a tach as well.

here is the link to how to set you low end.
www.ysperformance.com click on tech tips, then on YS doctors page. then it should tell you somewhere in there how to set your low end.

Hovering
 

Hi Guys
Did'nt take me long to hover.
I Have the G2 Real Flight Simulator and that helps alot.
And i learned very quick to hover.

here's a picture of me hovering!!

Dean

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

I have a tach, I'm going to try new tank and lines today. Also, I looked up morgan feuls, and cool power15% only has 17% oil! No wonder they don't print the oil content on the bottle, may account for lifter noise. I' going to add a few ounces of synthetic motorcycle (2-stroke) oil to a gallon and see how she runs.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

They don’t print the oil % because it would only be relevant if every fuel had the same type of oil from the same processor.

Good reading if you hadn't the chance yet:

http://www.powermasterfuels.com/facts.htm


Makes a lot of sense, and might keep the "red herring" of oil % from dominating your fuel considerations.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Jive Turkey,
I use a Hayes tank with my YS63 and I haven't had a problem at all. But I tried using Great Planes tanks, and Dubros and they end up leaking.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Oh great! I just bought a dubro, was using a sullivan, LHS doesn't carry hayes. My buddy suggested using silicone (caulk) around the stopper when installing it on the tank.........My question is, do tanks tend to leak around the stopper, or does the tank itself spring a leak, or both???????????

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

If your ailerons are beat to BILLY HELL might mean your knife edges are a lil close to the ground. lol

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

To Gbond,
What size 4 stroke are you using on your Knife? Your video looks great. Looks like you are well on your way to pretty impressive flying.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

...thanks, got a long way to go, but the challenge to keep trying to improve keeps it interesting...

...it's a Saito 72, APC 13x6, Magnum 15% fuel w/20% oil, OS Type F glow plug...

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

WhOO hOOO!.............put a new tank on, new lines, new filter, added a couple ounces of klotz syn. 2-cycle oil to my gallon of cool-power 15%, and this ys engine is running like a scaret cat-burgaler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's supposed to be a balmy 37 degrees here in MI sat., thinking about flying for the first ( or maybe it's the 2nd) time this year. I don't know if I'll try to hover, maybe just get the thumbs loosened up again, and the engine/plane tweaked in (no, I'm not going to lean the ys too much till I at least get a gallon through her, then still, not TOO much). But I AM looking forward to this season more than I ever have, since 1999, the year I soloed with my sig kadet lt-40 (r.i.p.).................I need to order my feul for the year the 1st of march, anyone recomendations? I was either going to get wildcat ys 20/20, or some wildcat 30% syn. heli feul, or a combination of both, depending on $

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

JiveTurkey,
glad to hear the Ys is running great now. I had a dubro leak within the first couple of flights. so if your motor starts acting funny its probably the tank.

Mine leaked around the stopper. I couldn't ever get my stopper tight enough.
But I have heard storys where the the YS will split a tank.

Glad to hear that its running great. Now you get to enjoy the performance of a YS.

Jive Turkey
 

Just get the YS 20/20 and use it until you get it broke in and running well. I'm surprised it runs so well on the 15% with extra oil. Then when you get the hang of setting it, you can get some 30% and let it sing. The nice thing about the ringed four strokes is you can go back and forth between nitro contents and just set the needle...

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Chuck, when I said "great", I haven't really tweaked it out totally yet, it's just that it was running horribly before with the bad tank. I'm running a 13x6 apc and have run almost a 1/2 gal. through it on the stand. It peaked at about 11,100, and I backed it off to about 10,700. I can't imagine what this thing will do when it does have the time on it and I get some "real" fuel, anxious too find out!.......can you say 1-overpowered-knife!.......man I LOVE that 4-stroke sound! I don't know if I'll ever go back to a 2-s.......Thanks for the fuel suggestion, my LHS orders a HUGE fuel order in march, so I'll probably get 2 gall. of 20/20 and 2 of 30% heli.

Best TRing technique
 

BURN LOTS OF GAS!!!!!!!!! IS THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN... ;)

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Citation x, exactly how much gas does it take? Tee Hee, just kidding. My goal ( I think goals are good ) is to harier/hover "pretty" good by the end of this season. When I say pretty good, I don't mean rock steady hovering for a full tank of gas with multiple tail touches. But fairly low, fairly long hovering, where the guys at the field will say, "Hey look, Ben's hovering!". Only I know how good a pilot I am right now ( let's face it, you have to be a pretty good pilot, to set a goal like hovering in a year! If your still having to "think about it" all the time, just to fly around and land, your probably setting yourself up!) But hopefully I'm not too overconfident, and as I said before, the worst that can happen is I'll improve as a pilot!............Now tork-rolls, well, that's another story, and in my opinion, another milestone altogether, I wouldn't lump that goal in with hovering ( although it is a hovering manuver) to me it seems at least 10x harder than hovering alone!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

got the fuel pump for my citabria, should be able to hover longer now:D:D:D:D:D

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

I Have my YS63 on my knife ARf and love it. It weighs 5.4lbs dry.

I could only imagine what it would be like on my knife kit that weighs around 4.5lbs. It would pull out like a rocket.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Mine weighs 4lbs. 9 1/2oz...............o.k., 10 o.z............real happy it came in under 5lbs!................I don't think a YS cares either way though!!!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Took the knife out today cruised around for a while, the ys was running good, so I said what the heck............pulled up vertical, and held it there for a split second, the first time that that is!......subsequent tries, got longer and longer (some shorter)....But, I definitley WAS hovering!!!!!!!!!!!!I'd say the longest was 6-7 seconds, which I did several times. I don't know if you guys believe me that I did this on my first try out, but like I said before, last year I was trying it and could hold it for a couple of sec. max. I think all the suggestions here + the ys make all the difference. This year is gonna be the year, I can feel it. Speaking of "feeling" something, all the posts so far, speak of that "feel", or a "groove". I'm starting to "feel" it!!!!!!!! I'd say about 100 more times out, and that feel will somehow feel natural. After the 1st time out, heres my conclusion, so far............THROTTLE, THROTTLE, THROTTLE!!!!!!!! If you can master the throttle, you can hover (it's not that easy, but generally true)! Next is RUDDER, RUDDER, RUDDER!!!!!! I'd say the 2 biggest causes for me to fall out of a hover was, not giving enough throttle at the right time(it's funny how you can control the nose with throttle, almost more than with elevator!) and not giving rudder input correctly, either too much, not enough, or the wrong direction. Either of these mistakes, and your out of your hover! One good thing about practicing hovering, is you can (or have to!) recover from ANY attitude!

I was doing all of this, between 15-25 feet. I tried it lower, about 8-10 feet, but once I messed up, there wasn,t enough air to recover, and hit pretty hard. A little thin ca aroud lg mount and I was back flying.........so for now I deffinitley feel more comfortable higher up!

Like I said, it was only my first time out , still got a long way to go, but I'm a pretty fast learner ( or so I've been told) So, I'm pretty confident that by the end of the year, I'll "get" it.

Thanks everybody, I'll keep you posted on my progress. (My bro. got a digital camera, and I just remembered my Dad's got a digital camcorder. If I can figure out how, I'll post some pics or vid.

Once again..............THANKS!


ps. I'm ordering a case of wildcat 30% heli feul this week, so It should help with throttle management even more. My LHS ( r.c.'s hobbies in laporte, In, a mom and pop and son hs, it's in there basement!) places a huge order march 1st, so you REALLY save on dough from hazmat shipping......get this, $17.75 a gall.! ys 20/20 $16.25 ......good prices, huh?

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

One more thing I forgot to mention.......at the risk of sounding like a chronic liar ( we all know of at least one guy like that, I'm sure, you know, mr. "been there, done that") When I was hovering, and perfectly vertical, it tork rolled, no really, it happened twice, the first time it went about 2/3 the way around , second time it made 1 full revolution. It happens so fast, it didn't register that it was a tourqe roll, till after it happens. Any way, I know that it was just a fluke, and really, not what I'm shooting for right now.

Today is supposed to be 25 mi/hr winds and snow, so I'll probably won't go out, but it's killin' me, all I can think about is getting more practice!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Hey Jive glad to hear you got it vertical, I've been flying the pbf over here in elkhart for the last week or so, I'm not taking any nice birds of till it gets a little warmer. And the rate your going you'll be hovering real good before the end of spring. Believe me it won't take long and you'll be keeping 3 to 5 feet off the ground for an entire tank of fuel. Hey the sun just popped out maybe I will get one out lol.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

...sounds like you're both making good progress - keep it up and keep us posted - left hand profiency is the key (throttle and rudder)...

...man, that's some good fuel prices - i pay just over $20/gal. for 15% Power Master...

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Here's a tip for finding a tank leak.

Connect one end of your fuel line to the pickup, and the other end to the pressure tap on the tank, making a loop. Fill a sink with hot water, and submerge the empty tank in it. The air in the tank expands and will bubble out of the leak. Try it.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

www.rcshobbieslaportein.com ( like I said, it's a mom and pop/son [the dad used to run it, but he's in wheelchair, and doesn't get around too good anymore] hobby shop, but they're also on the internet and doing shows/fly-in's).............check them out, real good prices on everything!

I'll try that trick out with my extra tank, thanks!


I'm dyin' to fly again, we got another 1" of snow, maybe tommorrow (winter ain't no good!)

hovering
 

I got the pump on the citabria, and took it out saturday, it was able to hover with no problem, and it was lots of fun, but sunday a crawfish mound took the plane out and looked like a scale palne crash, parts flew and there was a skid trail. the bottom of the plane is torn up.
Now i got a extra 300--ill be able to hover it i think.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Jive Turkey,
remember my advise about pizza box hovering 1st? yea well it does not work that way. I can hover the cr** out of my pizza box but i'm not very good with my knife....i guess its gallons and gallons of fuel for me!
I just changed receivers to one i can use with my computer radio...now i can try a little expo...see if that will calm down my over-corrections. also not sure of my set up...gonna try 5" back for cg maybe that will help.
looking forward to N.C. FF...hope to learn some there.
can't complain...plane flys great and the weather has been BEAUTIFUL!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Hacker, if I learn to hover the knife, then build a pizza box ( which is going to be my next plane, this year sometime) hopefully I'll be able to hover both this year! I love the concept of P.B.F., I just haven't gotten around to put one together ( spent booku bucks on the ys, just a flight pack now, would put me in the poorhouse!) But to have a cheap, inexpensive, plane capable of all the pbf dishes out (hard to believe for a 2x2 piece of coro!!!) that you can haul around on the floor board of your truck, AWESOME! Maybe it's good though, that I start out with something a little more diff. than a pbf.

I'm using expo (about 50-60%) on all surfaces, and I love it!

Over-corrections and under-corrections eliminated, for me = HOVER ALL DAY LONG!!!!!!!


Why don't you rub-in that thing about the weather a little more next time.....LOL!!!!( well, actually, it's not very funny)[ my bro. just got back from ft. myers, and we just had that conversation today............"what are we doing living in MI?"]