MRMADDMAXX

I am building a new dominator and i will need help along the way as i dont want this one to turn out like my friends. i am currently assembling the wing Can i add a carbon fiber rod to the wing to increase strength as this plane will run with a nelson in the future after its madien voyage on a tt pro 40? i will keep updating and post daily

Questions comments post them here

basmntdweller

My Feedback: (9)

I wouldn't use a rod. I'd use some CF tow or the premade CF sheet stuff that's about .007 thick. I'd use a strip full span about an inch wide at the high point of the airfoil on top and bottom of the wing. I'm assuming it's a sheeted foam wing of course. Lay the CF on the skin after you have wetted out the skin and then put a little more epoxy on the CF. I am not sure about the building sequence for the dominator but I prefer to join the bare cores first and then sheet them full span. You could also put some glass cloth on the skins in the center section internally. That will reduce the finishing time not having to blend the heavier cloth on the outside of the wing. I'd still use a layer of light cloth on the outside of the center section.
I hope this makes sense!
For what it's worth, I talked to Lanier the other day and they said the Predator wing is plenty strong for Nelson engines. I haven't destroyed one yet so I haven't gotten to look inside one to see if it has any structural enhancements beyond standard sheeted foam. I have flown two Predators with the Caps Jett engine. I have thought about getting a Dominator just to try.
Later,,,basmntdweller

MRMADDMAXX

well i got some carbonfiber dave brown 5230 and built wing to spec as per instructions and i used a butcherblock wing compressor after closer examination of friends wing it seem to me like he had no carbon fiber or fiberglass on his wing which is why it might have folded in flight as for the joining of the cores then sheeting it is not possible as the sheets are as long as one half of the wing and doing them separtly is a pain thanks for the help with thewing the next question is about the v-tail setup what are the advantages and disadvantages what should the angle be and so on

basmntdweller

My Feedback: (9)

The V reduces drag since there is only two surfaces versus three with conventional tail. There is also the theory that the V is at least partially out of the downwash through the turns whereas a conventional tail can be "blanked out" by the downwash causing a loss of control. I don't think you'd ever see it though. I have watched Craig Grunkenmeyer fly many heats with his old Doddgers and never saw one lose control because of downwash. The V tail is a pain to line up properly. Currently the preferred angle is 110 degrees.
Later,,,basmntdweller

MRMADDMAXX

well i did some research and the downwash thing is correct have you ever seen a 200+ mph rc plane that is a standerd tail the only ones ive seen are delta or a rare v is an angle of 130 too much i built it to 110 but the 90 min hardened to 130 and left a small gap that is filled with epoxy i hope it isnt as i will need to fabricate my own if it is true. thanks
Steve

make that a prop 200+ mph plane as jets dont have prop wash

basmntdweller

My Feedback: (9)

Not sure about 130. tracking will be better but pitch stability will suffer.
basmntdweller

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Basmnt I have examined a number of crashed Pred wings and there is nothing under the skins except foam.

John

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Lanier can say what they want, but I've seen several Predator wings fail with a Nelson attached..

I wouldn't strap one one without some reinforcements.

Don't get me wrong, the predator is perfect for 424 racing, or most sport .40-.46 engines, its just not quite strong enough for a Nelson or Jett.

MRMADDMAXX

Shall i mention this plane is a dominator not a factory built predator. but for those of you who have seen broken wings where have they broken so i can see the differences between the predator and mine and mod if necessary

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Ooops,

The predator is basically an arf version of the Dominator with a couple revisions.

The predator wing has some fiberglass on the wing, but has no CF along the high point (top and bottom).

This is what you need on the dominator wing. I typically use 3/4" CF Tow, top and bottom. Try and sheet as one wing, without the seem in the center. Add fiberglass in the center.

Good to go.

MRMADDMAXX

shall i mention the sheets for the dominator wing are the same length as the cores how would you recommend to sheet the wing without seams

PylonWorld

Are you sure the sheeting is the same length as the cores? I thought it was about 1 1/2" longer which allows you to scarf the sheets. Maybe I used replacement wood on mine.

kane

Maxx,

Are you planning on putting a Nelson on the plane? I have read your initial post and it states that you have a TT 40 pro. IF this is the engine you have chosen, the wing will be fine. You must however, glass the center section where the 2 cores meet.

I have built several High wing quickee using 24" cores and sheeting and butt glued the 2 together. One little trick was to run the cores through a table saw cutting an 1/8" slot along the high point to accept a 1/8" light ply joiner spar. It only needs to be about 12" long (6 on a side) . You can either do this after the wing is sheeted our before the sheeting is on. Preferable method is before.

One more way to add strength is to purchase 48" long trailing edge and leading edge stock.

I keep hearing about folding wings and these airplanes. Where do they fold? I Have never seen a wing fold at the centersection. Usually, wings fold at the inside aileron cutout, or just outside the fuselage. What is the case?

Dan

daven

My Feedback: (1)

The predators I have seen fold, have been right in the center. In some cases, it looked like there was very little glue holding the two halves together.

I like to keep the seem of the sheeting away from the center. All you have to do, is cut one set of sheeting in half. Take the other (full length sheet) and use in the center, and each half on the outer quarters.

Its a little bit more work, but I think its quite a bit stronger.

DMyer

My Feedback: (2)

"For what it's worth, I talked to Lanier the other day and they said the Predator wing is plenty strong for Nelson engines. I haven't destroyed one yet so I haven't gotten to look inside one to see if it has any structural enhancements beyond standard sheeted foam. I have flown two Predators with the Caps Jett engine. I have thought about getting a Dominator just to try.
Later,,,basmntdweller"


For what it is worth... plenty strong for a nelson... as long as you don't try a full tilt pylon turn. Not only is there no internal reinforcement, such as CF, but the foam itself is a very low quality. I was examining someone elses wrecked Predator last weekend and I noticed that the foam was very soft with a very loose foam balls structure... much less organized and softer than the 1 LB virgin EPS I (most people) cut cores from. I suspect they are using recycled foam. It is irresponsible of Lanier to even suggest someone can put a nelson on that plane without significant modifications. I am surprised their general counsel does not caution Lanier employees against making such suggestions.

Dan

kane

Dave,

Thanks for the insight.

I no longer use 24" cores but I have. ESPECIALLY when I flew Webras and Rossis.

My current build method is 1/16th balsa over foam. The sheeting is full legth (48") and full length LE and TE stock. I am in NO way recommending this to anyone But, I don't put carbon in Nor do I put a spar in. I have flown several Q-500's with Nelsons this way. I have never had a wing fold. That is why it is suprising. If I was building an airplane for someone ELSE, I would definately put the carbon in or the spar. My main reason for not doing it was simply to save weight. Call me stupid call me whatever, But I have gone 1:06 with setup on the long course. As far as Lanier recommending a Nelson, I wouldn't try it. I just don't know who built it nor what the material content is. When I build something I choose the materials and know what to do when applying the skins and glass to the center section. This is my take and you guys can take it with a grain of salt.

Dan

DMyer

My Feedback: (2)

Dan,


Out of curiosity, what weight wood are you using for your skins without CF or a spar? Thanks.


Dan

MRMADDMAXX

i put carbon fiber tape across the wing and sheeted it as per daven. In the Dominator kit the le and te are full length stock so i do not have to worry about that do you think completly glassing the wing is too much as it will race in a 424 class race a few times before the nelson is installed just an idea

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Dan,

What is your glassing technique? How much? What weight? Where?

Thanks,

kane

I use midwest balsa. They do not supply the weight, I believe it is in the 4-6 lb range. 48" long 4 in wide and glue sheets together. I tend to use the heavy sheet on the bottom. I have also purchased sheets from Lone Star, 1/20th already done ready to apply.

I used to use Hobby Poxy 2 for applying the skin, (don't think it availble any longer) Since I have switched to composite wings I haven't investigated any other type of glue.

I would put a diamond shape piece of 1.5 oz cloth on the skins in the center section top and bottom (approx 18" wide). This goes inside the sheeting between the wood and foam. Then I would finish the wing install my mounting dowels and add two more layers of 1.5 on the top and bottom. These layers were wider at the LE and taper to about 6" at the TE. The first layer is about 18" at the LE and the second is about 10". I put the widest layer on first and then the second. The last layer was about 1/2" wider than the fuselage of the same weight cloth. This way when sanding you don't sand through the cloth defeating the purpose of putting it on. I use West system epoxy for the finish and use Peel ply to put it down. I never put it in a Vacuum just sqeegee the peel ply on and peel it off after the resin kicks off.

The finished wings were ending up in the 13 oz range NO servo but did have torque rods.

Again, do what you want, I am not telling anyone to try this. This is just what I used to do. I didn't use any carbon because I was cheap and didn't want to buy it. I have used Strapping tape in the past when I built QM40 wings.

Dan

MRMADDMAXX

What about glassing the whole wing? just an idea

kane

Maxx,

I wouldn't glass the entire wing. Nor have I ever glassed a quickee wing. MonoKote or Ultracote is just fine. I didn't cover some wings with Silkspan some years back that might count. I had to lay off the dope though.

Carbon is a good choice.


(Constant velocity towards the ground???? Are you saying it was Terminal???)


Dan

MRMADDMAXX

not without sheeting it just glass on foam that wouldnt work?


(yes i made a crater)

kane

Now that is a Horse of a different color.

Yes by all means bag glass over foam to make a wing without skins. YES, use some carbon for this layup!

Just remember Gravity sucks

DK

MRMADDMAXX

I have a few wing cores for this plane and so your saying for this one just place the carbon tape as per instructions and glass the whole wing i think that is what you are getting at imagine the strength and weight of this wing