flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

The best instructor is a certified full scale pilot. I have been among too many people who can fly but can't fly a traffic pattern or shoot touch and goes.

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Future R/C Instructors: I have tried for over 2 years to have my "Instructor Training Guide" (Draft Form) be published or ACKNOWLEDGE by 2 Major R/C magazines. It has been a very frustrating adventure. I feel that any person who wishes to be an R/C Instructor should be apprised of the Responsibilities and Safety items that they will encounter. I will be glad to email a copy to any person who is interested. Any inputs would be appreciated. Col. Chuck Winter

fly24-7

I would agree that a full scale pilot's procedural discipline would be an asset for an instructor. But I don't think that to successfully instruct, you need have a full scale background.

The procedures that one needs to follow to successfully learn to fly R/C are not that taxing. I find it's less about remembering a bunch of stuff and more about using common sense, good judgement and taking one's time. Mose issues that I've seen come from rushing from the car to being airborne. Also, I've seen too many flights be forced because a guy thinks it's failure to go all the way to the field and not get a flight in. If a plane's not ready or the weather conditions are not right, no reason to force a flight. One can accomplish productive aircraft preparations at the field without getting the flight in. It's not wasted time.

Bozarth

My Feedback: (15)

But not all certified full scale pilots should be instructors....

Kurt

zacharyR

My Feedback: (5)

I have one guy .. at my home field Hell of a nice guy he came from full scale and he's kinda of struggling with a trainer .. after doing rc for a year ....


don't see how hed make a good instructor in the rc world IMO

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Future R/C Instructors: My "Instructor Training Guide" was developed from my many years of Flying and Instructing in the US Air Force and flying RC from the beginning of RC flying (50 years). The primary purpose of this guide is I feel there is a need for a comprehensive training guide for the New and Seasoned RC instructor. The subject (To my knowledge) of "Instructor Training" has never been addressed in the Model Airplane Hobby or Industry. Basically, all forms of aviation today, commercial, military and civilian have Instructor Training programs. I will again offer a draft copy of my "Instructor Training Guide" to any one that is interested. You can message me on RC University. Col. Chuck Winter

Bozarth

My Feedback: (15)

I was an Air Force instructor pilot who flew RC on the weekends. I taught several of my full scale instructor friends to fly RC. Not exactly the same. Some of the best full scale pilots didn't fly RC so well, and wouldn't necessarily make great RC instructors. But the thought of RC instructor regulations makes me nauseous.

Kurt

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

I have taught a 747 captain how to fly RC... good thing was his attitude. He did not try to throw his superiority around. He knew that he needed help to learn this task. It was not easy, but he is a great guy. The guys that you teach really appreciate your efforts. More than anything, I think that I use the skills of teaching more than the flying skills. talking-explaining-knowing when to shut up. I teach a technical class occasionally. It starts with a plan, and continues with adjustments. You have to let them know what the standard is by which they will be judged. Safety always first and foremost. Always tell them when you take control of the plane away...

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

And not all certified full scale pilots should be full scale pilots (certificated or otherwise). If Colonel Winter has a training manual, I'm sure it's a good one so PM coming your way Colonel. Using a training syllabus can be extremely helpful asstructure is usually more productive than randomness. Being, or becoming, a good CFI takes time. One is not annointed a CFI today and is instantly a good CFI or a better pilot. It takes a willingness,time, patience, judgement,experience, and a number of other qualities. Keep it simple, look to the good ones (younger and older) to be mentors to the new ones. Some might not be interested in glo, gas, or electric; so let them instruct at what they know and enjoy. Some less skilled pilots might not fly as well, but can they teach well? Just my .03 cents worth (and yeah, full scale ATP, 2 type ratings, CFIAMEI, Gold Seal, blah blah blah).

By the way, that is one awesome F7F Tigercat Colonel, who's kit was it?

hook
aka Mark
AMA 63845

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

A sad state of affairs when someone shows some initiative and is ignored. Partly it's our culture; buy something, the first thing to hit the trash is the instruction manual. Just arrogance. It shows in our school standards as well, probably yhe lowest in the developed nations.

Colonel, is that a -106? Wow! And the F7F looks like it might wear 'Big Bossman' colors. The speed bug never stops biting ...  [8D]

red head

I think everyone should at least TRY helping ( teaching ) someone, then maybe they would sit down and keep their mouth shut about someone else's way of helping. If you aren't working with the student directly you have NO idea what they can or can't do . So if you don't instruct/ help, just keep quiet and let the one's that can or will help do so.

I hate the "YARD BIRDS" that sit back and say things like, when ya going to let him/her do this that or what ever when they know NOTHING about the student.

The worse student I can get is : someone over 55 , that has either owned or ran a large business and has a pilots license. Think about it !!!

I've had some very interesting students and ENJOYED most of them, all the way from kids to FAA directors, Dr's, jet pilots, WW2 pilots, janitors and even a legally blind woman for a fam flight. So we don't need the " YARD BIRDS " that don't know what's happening telling us how. ENJOY !!! RED

Live Wire

Well I tell you! these people were the hardest to teach how to fly RC but the most enjoyable a P 51 pilot and a tail gunner of a B 29 both from the # 2 war

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

Exactly Eddie! And I'm pretty sure that it's an F-104 the Colonel was riding back then. A rocket with wings, little ones!
Mark

jester_s1

I'd love a copy of your manual Colonel, and I appreciate the time you've put into creating it. I'm an occasional instructor with much more experience teaching people things than I do flying skills. But I can always learn more from a guy with more experience than me.

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

Sorry, hook57. Normally I'd let it slide, 'cept my plane-spotter cred is in the balance. The good Colonel's broad shoulders and dazzling smile may be distracting from the fact those are flattened intakes, and the -104's were rounded. And on the -104the front glass is curved.

We have an F-105G (Wild Weasel) gatekeeper about an hour east at a VFW hall in a tiny farm town. Quite a shock to cruise through the little burg and catch a glimpse of that bad***** machine nearly on Main Street!

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Mark, The F7F is a KMP kit. I have many inputs on the F7F construction in RC Universe under Multi Engines. Great flying airplane and a real crowd pleaser at air shows. The Jet in the picture is a F-106 mach 2 jet. As for my "Instructor Training Guide" (I'll send you a copy) it is not a Demanding approach to training, it's many Suggestions that a New and Seasoned instructor may want to use in his instructing career. I have already send out copies of my "Instructing Training Guide" in response to this RC Universe notice. Col. Chuck Winter PS send me your email address.

carps

Hi Guys,
I have been following this thread and I find many of the comments interesting here is my input.

Here in Australia we started an Instructors Training system and accreditation in the 80s. This was when everyone built their own aircraft and before Buddy Boxes and simulators were around.

I have been involved in this program since its inception. We have a wings accreditation system that required that all instructors were the holders of our Gold Wings for their respective category; Fixed Wing, Gliders or Helicopter. They used to check you out as an instructor by assessing your flying ability.

Well the world has changed; majority of modellers do not build, but assemble ARF’s and are competent in flying ability but we have identified that the new modellers not only need the ability on the sticks but do not have knowledge of the aerodynamics, safety, Lipos, buddy boxes, simulators and the necessary regulatory requirements we have here in OZ.

The modellers of today come in three main categories, Juniors, Adult learners, and Older (senior) learners. They all need different techniques or at least the instructor needs to be aware of the different learning styles.
We also are aware that the new instructors of today whilst being able to fly may not have instructional ability.

The question that needs to be asked is “who do the students ask for answers” they always ask their instructor and we have identified that many of the questions were not able to be answered.

We have now defined what is the role of the instructor and our wings system.

1. Purpose of MAAA Flight Instruction
To assist in the development of a student’s flying skills in a new flight category to the point
where they are able to fly a basic model of that type safely by themselves, coupled with
the knowledge of the CASA, MAAA and club requirements, and to achieve this result as
quickly and safely as is practical; to be followed by assisting in progress to Gold Wings as
requested.

2. Role of MAAA Instructors
To have been trained in appropriate techniques for effective flight instruction to support flight
instruction at club level and through example and mentoring to increase the level of
competence of others carrying out flight instruction at a club level.

3. Purpose of the MAAA Wings Scheme
To establish the MAAA acceptable standard to be competent to fly a basic model aircraft
flight category without minimum supervision, and provide an incentive for pilots to develop
their basic skills to a higher level before, or whilst, pursuing their individual interests.

So the outcome of this is that we now teach instructors how to teach. They have the necessary flying ability before they start our course.
More to come if you are interested in how we do it.

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

A 'Bear', TU-144? What was the space suit for, if I might ask?

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

Carps, please continue. One of the best posts so far.

carps

Just to show you my background and the reasons for the approach we are using.

I was in the military and taught myself to fly RC in Vietnam, I have been involved in flying RC ever since and also in my professional life I am a qualified Adult Educator and have been involved in Training both Military and Civilian aircrew and maintenance from over 14 different countries and this not only assists in training but also brings different language and cultural aspects into play.

On with the story.

We have developed a training course that goes for two days (over a weekend). It is structured for the mornings to be used in the classroom. This is in an educational facility with use of overhead projector, computers, and internet access. The afternoons are done on the flying field.
The course is promoted as an Instructors course and workshop. The main thrust is to train the new instructors, however we use it to update older instructors with the newer techniques and we also allow observers (they are normally club executives to become aware of all the information that is now available) we use a discussion system where the main topics are covered and we not only provide the answers to the questions but we actually show references of where to find them in the future as technology and regulations change.

A key point is that the information being supplied is not only from those of us out the front but we provide different views and techniques from older (not necessarily age) instructors and during these sessions they hear from others on the course the challenges that are being seen at other clubs.

Following the classroom session we take them out to a field where they are required to instruct a student (normally someone else on the course acting the part) as if he was someone straight off the street and you needed to show them everything, safety, flight areas, keyboards, how the controls work, etc. They then start the aircraft and demonstrate a takeoff, circuit and landing using a buddy box. They are then required to allow the new student to fly the aircraft through a circuit. The aircraft is then landed and the instructor is required to debrief the student. This normally takes about 45 minutes to 1 hour.

During this phase I use the old instructors who are refreshing as assessors to assist me as the CFI.
The second flight on Day 1 is to prebrief the student in three flat maneuvers (Figure eights, inside and outside; procedure turns, circuits etc.). All maneuvers are done both left to right and right to left. Once as a demonstration and then with the student flying. This can be used with a buddy box or pass the Transmitter (the scenario is that the student is able to do the basics and will not be breaking your aircraft. After landing the new instructor is required to debrief the student on his performance. This is once again assessed.

Due to the fact that we bring everyone to a central location we normally have a BBQ on the Saturday night which promotes the discussion between all those from various locations and the teaching continues in a low key environment.

Watch for the next stage.

carps

The second morning continues in the class with many different aspects which includes Buddy Box Techniques Discussion on different brands what can be hooked together and what cannot. Legislative Regulations, How to fly the basic maneuvers etc. This normally is the most productive classroom session as there are many questions from the previous day.

The flying session today is for one flight only but it is basic aerobatic maneuvers (loops, rolls, stall turns etc.) Remembering that the instructor selects the actual maneuvers and is required to prebrief and debrief. The flight is the same where the new instructor has to fly and demonstrate and the actually teach the student. We normally switch the teams around so that they are not working with the same students as the day before.

We also add an extra dimension. The normal club is actually flying and you have to do this instruction in a normal club environment which requires lots of communication and situation awareness.

Following this session we then require the new instructor to answer a written assessment. This is sent to them by email and to successfully pass the exam requires work using all the resources they were shown over the past two days. This is done in their own time and returned. To become a qualified instructor you must be assessed as passing both practical and theory.

To show the rate of involvement we have held 8 courses over the past 18 months. We normally have up to 30 people in the room. Not everyone has passed but we have passed in excess of 150 new instructors in two different states.

I prefer to use a common location that is not the instructors own club. This puts them in a situation where they do not know the lay of the land, they do not know all the students, flight areas, sun direction etc.

The feedback we are getting is that this has been required for some time.
It meets our needs as we emphasise that not everyone is comfortable being an instructor, but if you embrace this it can be extremely fulfilling and become another fulfilling aspect of RC modeling.

I think the following comment from an International Pilot on the course shows that we are delivering a course that our members want.
“Just a big thanks to the team for organising the weekend.
I enjoyed it and “Topped” up my training resources.
The Sunday afternoon at the Hinterland Club was evil, but well worth it, short runway, reverse direction, crosswind, sun low in sky, crowded pilots, instructing and performing aerobatics, yep I got it, I see the message that was put across.

I look forward to the assessment.”

This series of posts has been an overview; we have PowerPoint presentations and supporting documentation and handouts to support the course and this maintains the same standard at all times.

Feel free to comment and ask questions.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

When I look back I think about the teachers that I learned the most from. There is a dimension and skill to teach that not everyone exhibits. What method utilized gives one the most benefit? From what I have seen the best teachers know how to size up the student and quickly adapt different methods to train them or there is much loss. I think those teachers are the best teachers.

I was a difficult student in school as I was easily distracted and cared not about school in the first place. So it took a special type of teacher to get my "attention" and those are the ones I learned from. The rest bored me in the ground and I spent most of my time out of the class doing something else. I rarely even caried books home at all and only did what I could to slide through.

Over the years I learned to show more respect and try my best to learn something from those that take their time to teach me. The same goes with RC. No matter what instructor I had (I had no less than three of them) I gleaned as much as I could from them. I had done enough research beforehand and wise enough to know when they were probably telling me something that was not correct.

When a student is above the teacher, or a teacher above the student you will have problems. I won't even bother training someone that knows more than all of us combined because they think too highly of themselves, unless I can find a way to get their "attention" and know that going forward I can keep it. If not, our time is not going to be productive and I think time is too precious to waste.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Carps, just curious, what is your pass rate, if you are at liberty to post that information? Your course appears to be very well laid out and I imagine your level of instructors is very good.

jetmech05

A full scale pilot is the best instructor? Maybe maybe not....flying one is different than flying the other....We don't have ILS, VOR, DME, airspeed, Vertical climb, turn and slip, autopilot, marker beacon etc etc....we don't even have variable pitch props...well most of us don't...we don't even have the seat of your pants feel.
Instead we fly by sight alone...speed, rate of climb, attitude...is all done by sight.
Now as was said earlier the way a full scale guy goes about his duties would be a plus....aerodynamics is the same so the full scale guy starts out with a broader knowledge base.
That in no way makes him more or less qualified to teach a new guy RC flying. No more than I could teach a new guy full scale flying.
My background...Well Marine Corps maintenance. Crew chief, fixed wing. still work maintenace, and have been a flight mechanic on large transports....I have my cockpit time.
Look guys this is a hobby not a business.....we're here to have fun...the OP basically is looking for some kind of qual for an instructor. I think there should be some kind of flight requirements to teach. Nothing fancy we're not teaching areobatics. but basic flight, fly the pattern, land, of course take off and stall recovery.
OK I am off my soap box...good flying to all

Bozarth

My Feedback: (15)

With all due respect, does a club really need this?

Kurt