Flight instructor job description
11-29-2012, 06:59 AM
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Flight instructor job description
My club is battling over the requirements of being a club flight instructor. We are in the process of trying to
put this requirement on paper. Does your club have a formalized description that you would like to share?
Clarence
put this requirement on paper. Does your club have a formalized description that you would like to share?
Clarence
11-29-2012, 07:49 AM
#2
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RE: Flight instructor job description
This is the flight test for instructors at our club:
The objective of this test is to demonstrate to the examiner, the safe flying and overall total control of the model, in all positions, and attitudes, required to teach the R/C flight training course.
1. On the command from the examiner, the examinee will fly three circuits (touch and go each time) land full stop after third;
2. Fly three straight flights (stretched figure eight) into wind, right turn, downwind left turn (assuming a Westerly wind). Refuel if necessary;
3. Fly three inverted straight flights, stretched figure eight into wind, right turn, downwind, left turn; (assuming a Westerly wind)
The objective of this test is to demonstrate to the examiner, the safe flying and overall total control of the model, in all positions, and attitudes, required to teach the R/C flight training course.
1. On the command from the examiner, the examinee will fly three circuits (touch and go each time) land full stop after third;
2. Fly three straight flights (stretched figure eight) into wind, right turn, downwind left turn (assuming a Westerly wind). Refuel if necessary;
3. Fly three inverted straight flights, stretched figure eight into wind, right turn, downwind, left turn; (assuming a Westerly wind)
11-29-2012, 08:58 AM
#3
RE: Flight instructor job description
ORIGINAL: BillBabe
My club is battling over the requirements of being a club flight instructor. We are in the process of trying to
put this requirement on paper. Does your club have a formalized description that you would like to share?
Clarence
My club is battling over the requirements of being a club flight instructor. We are in the process of trying to
put this requirement on paper. Does your club have a formalized description that you would like to share?
Clarence
11-29-2012, 11:07 AM
#4
RE: Flight instructor job description
Our club has no formal rules to be an instructor and for the most part I don't see any written in stone requiremnet by the AMA. We have several guys who are listed as instructors in our club and are the only ones allowed to use the club trainers with a student. I think more important than being the best pilot in the club would be the ability of an instructor to be very calm and explainclearly what they are trying to accomplish with the student. You should have a clear lesson plan laid out to include ground school and safe practices around aircraft. An instructor can either encourage or discouragea new pilot with their attitude and confussing instructions. Again just my opinion.
11-29-2012, 01:50 PM
#6
RE: Flight instructor job description
ORIGINAL: grosbeak
This is the flight test for instructors at our club:
The objective of this test is to demonstrate to the examiner, the safe flying and overall total control of the model, in all positions, and attitudes, required to teach the R/C flight training course.
1. On the command from the examiner, the examinee will fly three circuits (touch and go each time) land full stop after third;
2. Fly three straight flights (stretched figure eight) into wind, right turn, downwind left turn (assuming a Westerly wind). Refuel if necessary;
3. Fly three inverted straight flights, stretched figure eight into wind, right turn, downwind, left turn; (assuming a Westerly wind)
This is the flight test for instructors at our club:
The objective of this test is to demonstrate to the examiner, the safe flying and overall total control of the model, in all positions, and attitudes, required to teach the R/C flight training course.
1. On the command from the examiner, the examinee will fly three circuits (touch and go each time) land full stop after third;
2. Fly three straight flights (stretched figure eight) into wind, right turn, downwind left turn (assuming a Westerly wind). Refuel if necessary;
3. Fly three inverted straight flights, stretched figure eight into wind, right turn, downwind, left turn; (assuming a Westerly wind)
Thats it? I know allot people that can do that and are horrible instructors!
The key to being a good instructor is explaining calmy, clearly and accurately what you are trying to convey to the student. If you convey wrong information or contradicting information, you hurt your credibility and confuse/frustrate the student.
I have seen really good pilots try and teach someone to fly, only to see them both walk away at the end of the flight frustrated.
One thing i rarely see done in many clubs is a ground lesson before the flight explaining what the objectives of the flight are, how to accomplish them, and any abnormal (common) things that can be expected. This gives the student a great deal of information to reflect on and it is fresh in their minds for the flight.
Also while in the process of the flight, a good instructor should be talkative enough to explain the manuever and any corrections needed without being to talkative.
Just my thoughts from being a CFI/CFII for 7 years, and rc instructor for 15
11-29-2012, 04:25 PM
#9
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RE: Flight instructor job description
To my mind the willingness to volunteer is qualification enough, especially if it's with your own airplane. There are some very basic piloting competencies that have to be mastered to be a good instructor, mostly centered on recovering the airplane to straight and level flight from every imaginable attitude. I figure if a pilot can fly the novice sequence of SPA or something similar he's a good enough pilot to do that. Then encourage new pilots to work with multiple instructors until they get the one that clicks with them. One tip I'll offer is don't put a brand new instructor with a brand new student. Let the new teacher work with a guy who's nearly ready to solo and just fly some circuits. He can get used to handling the buddy box and can focus on critiquing the flying instead of saving the plane every 5 seconds. Then the new teacher can work backwards to less experienced students building his training skills as he goes.
11-29-2012, 04:31 PM
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RE: Flight instructor job description
I am not an instructor, for many years I helped people learn how to fly there model by just telling them what to do and how it is done. You turn off some one from the hobby by just trying to let them know how great you are when they are already smarter than you
pressing set up at the field and safety is one thing I have found hardest to get across to people. You have a hard time picking or setting standards fo an instructor, some people just don't hit it off and others getalong great and the learning goes to plan
pressing set up at the field and safety is one thing I have found hardest to get across to people. You have a hard time picking or setting standards fo an instructor, some people just don't hit it off and others getalong great and the learning goes to plan
11-29-2012, 05:24 PM
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RE: Flight instructor job description
I'm no instructor by far but last week I was helping a newbie with his helicoptor. And a really interesting thing was going on. I kept having to tell him to breath. It was his first flight and I think he would have passed out if by himself.
11-29-2012, 08:13 PM
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RE: Flight instructor job description
This is a crazy thread. Take any stable plane you own and let a newbie buddy box on it with you on the master controls. You are now an instructor. If you're a jerk the student will walk away. If you don't take control back in time and the plane slams into the ground then you both will walk away.
If I belonged to a club where you had so many rules that you had an instructor examine, I think I would shoot myself in the head before I would fly with that club.
If I belonged to a club where you had so many rules that you had an instructor examine, I think I would shoot myself in the head before I would fly with that club.
11-29-2012, 08:45 PM
#13
Moderator
RE: Flight instructor job description
Yes, you can definitely regulate it to death. It's far more important that instructors take a genuine interest in the students and have some basic communication abilities than it is that they be outstanding pilots. When I was learning one of our guys was a pretty good pilot and an outstanding modeler, but he couldn't teach a fish how to swim. He'd take you up, let you screw up, and then scold you for it. Very few people can learn with someone who isn't able to communicate with a newbie. One thing we do when there are lots of students is some of the older pilots who don't feel confident enough in their eyesight or reflexes to buddy box anyone take care of ground school. That frees the instructors up to stay on the flight line teaching. It works well.
11-29-2012, 09:21 PM
#14
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Flight instructor job description
ORIGINAL: ckreef
This is a crazy thread. Take any stable plane you own and let a newbie buddy box on it with you on the master controls. You are now an instructor. If you're a jerk the student will walk away. If you don't take control back in time and the plane slams into the ground then you both will walk away.
If I belonged to a club where you had so many rules that you had an instructor examine, I think I would shoot myself in the head before I would fly with that club.
This is a crazy thread. Take any stable plane you own and let a newbie buddy box on it with you on the master controls. You are now an instructor. If you're a jerk the student will walk away. If you don't take control back in time and the plane slams into the ground then you both will walk away.
If I belonged to a club where you had so many rules that you had an instructor examine, I think I would shoot myself in the head before I would fly with that club.
WELL PUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kurt
11-29-2012, 09:55 PM
#15
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Flight instructor job description
I've been in 8 clubs over the past 40 years, and instructed in most of them, from over 400 members to a dozen. Every club is different, as is every instructor. If you get the chance, you should fly with as many different instructors as possible and you should be able to find a good fit. Some are very regimented, almost overbearing. Others, more fluid - go with the flow types. Smaller clubs though usually have more problems having enough instructors, and their time is more difficult to come by. But even if you are a novice flier, you are learning lots of new tricks of the trade, and can share a lot with other newbies. Especially time consuming is checking out new airplanes, radio installation, engine, weight and balance. Having help there allows the instructor to give more flight time to all.
Now some instructors are finished after they get you to do take-offs, general flying with a loop or roll, and landing. Once they have "solo'ed" you, they expect you are on your own and can fly anytime without their input. Unfortunately there is so much more that you should learn, so if you get cut off there you should look for more advanced training.
One aspect of training is that you tend to maiden lots of new airplanes. Getting them back in one piece is easy with trainers, but you often get to do many hotter airplanes. Be honest about your skills before taking up something that you have little or no experience with. Heavy, high wing loading scale or high speed aircraft, or even a tail dragger can exceed a pilot's experience if all they ever fly are trainer types.
Now some instructors are finished after they get you to do take-offs, general flying with a loop or roll, and landing. Once they have "solo'ed" you, they expect you are on your own and can fly anytime without their input. Unfortunately there is so much more that you should learn, so if you get cut off there you should look for more advanced training.
One aspect of training is that you tend to maiden lots of new airplanes. Getting them back in one piece is easy with trainers, but you often get to do many hotter airplanes. Be honest about your skills before taking up something that you have little or no experience with. Heavy, high wing loading scale or high speed aircraft, or even a tail dragger can exceed a pilot's experience if all they ever fly are trainer types.
11-29-2012, 10:56 PM
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RE: Flight instructor job description
One criteria is someone should be asked to be an instructor, either by the club board or by senior instructors in the club. Too many 'appoint' themselves to be instructors, and they usually turn out to be the worst at teaching, and sometimes at flying.
We had one such 'appointee' this year helping a new guy. With no buddy box, the student got the plane way outta shape, graveyard spiral. His mentor stood by his side and watched, finally below tree-top height he asks, 'You got it?' just before impact. This was the second time this year he's done nothing with a student in trouble.
When I started, I went to the field 3 or 4 times to watch the experts. It didn't take long to choose the calm, kind guy who flew precisely, seemed to demonstrate safe techniques, and was never in a rush to do anything. He and a couple others have been my mentors ever since.
The Brits seem to have levels or classes of attainment, one would think here in the US we'd have a similar system.
We had one such 'appointee' this year helping a new guy. With no buddy box, the student got the plane way outta shape, graveyard spiral. His mentor stood by his side and watched, finally below tree-top height he asks, 'You got it?' just before impact. This was the second time this year he's done nothing with a student in trouble.
When I started, I went to the field 3 or 4 times to watch the experts. It didn't take long to choose the calm, kind guy who flew precisely, seemed to demonstrate safe techniques, and was never in a rush to do anything. He and a couple others have been my mentors ever since.
The Brits seem to have levels or classes of attainment, one would think here in the US we'd have a similar system.
11-30-2012, 04:19 AM
#17
RE: Flight instructor job description
I guess I am missing something here as I believe many students are very influenced by what their instructor does and says. I think an instructor should be held to a much higher standard as he or she is an instructor or you could say a teacher. If one does not teach safety and other things that could result in a future problem.
Is this an incorrect way of thinking about an instructor? How will a student know what to do? Will the student just figure it out on his/her own? The reason I state this is because I have seen this first hand and watched the results. Also don't we know that the student reflects our teaching?
An example might be one who tells a student, "Don't really worry about any pre-flight, I never pre-flight my planes and never have an issue and don't bother about the flying over the pits thing that you hear about. At this club we really don't have those type of rules. We are free to do whatever we want really, just watch out for certain people that make the rules at the club and don't fly over the pits while they are here."
Here is another example. An instructor does not teach the student proper flying when there are many planes in the air. The teacher constantly flies against the circuit, does 3D in the middle of the pattern, and causes all sorts of problems to the other pilots and does not really care about them anyway. While he is teaching his student ask him why the other guys complain about this and he says, "They are just grumpy guys and don't know what they are talking about. Don't pay any attention to them - what do those OFs know?"
In these scenarios what is the student learning? You might say any sensible instructor would not do that, yet I have been around some that don't teach you any of the "other" things you need to learn about RC flying that makes you a good and respected pilot. There are many instructors due to time constraints that "shortcut" the process and it is reflected in the student down the road.
Thoughts?
Is this an incorrect way of thinking about an instructor? How will a student know what to do? Will the student just figure it out on his/her own? The reason I state this is because I have seen this first hand and watched the results. Also don't we know that the student reflects our teaching?
An example might be one who tells a student, "Don't really worry about any pre-flight, I never pre-flight my planes and never have an issue and don't bother about the flying over the pits thing that you hear about. At this club we really don't have those type of rules. We are free to do whatever we want really, just watch out for certain people that make the rules at the club and don't fly over the pits while they are here."
Here is another example. An instructor does not teach the student proper flying when there are many planes in the air. The teacher constantly flies against the circuit, does 3D in the middle of the pattern, and causes all sorts of problems to the other pilots and does not really care about them anyway. While he is teaching his student ask him why the other guys complain about this and he says, "They are just grumpy guys and don't know what they are talking about. Don't pay any attention to them - what do those OFs know?"
In these scenarios what is the student learning? You might say any sensible instructor would not do that, yet I have been around some that don't teach you any of the "other" things you need to learn about RC flying that makes you a good and respected pilot. There are many instructors due to time constraints that "shortcut" the process and it is reflected in the student down the road.
Thoughts?
11-30-2012, 04:29 AM
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RE: Flight instructor job description
In one of the clubs I belong they have instructors that are named by the club president. Then they have a specific final test which is taken in front of the chief instructor. Then if you pass you can solo, they give you a plaque and take off the sleeve of your shirt.
11-30-2012, 05:02 AM
#19
RE: Flight instructor job description
ORIGINAL: invertmast
Thats it? I know allot people that can do that and are horrible instructors!
The key to being a good instructor is explaining calmy, clearly and accurately what you are trying to convey to the student. If you convey wrong information or contradicting information, you hurt your credibility and confuse/frustrate the student.
I have seen really good pilots try and teach someone to fly, only to see them both walk away at the end of the flight frustrated.
One thing i rarely see done in many clubs is a ground lesson before the flight explaining what the objectives of the flight are, how to accomplish them, and any abnormal (common) things that can be expected. This gives the student a great deal of information to reflect on and it is fresh in their minds for the flight.
Also while in the process of the flight, a good instructor should be talkative enough to explain the manuever and any corrections needed without being to talkative.
Just my thoughts from being a CFI/CFII for 7 years, and rc instructor for 15
ORIGINAL: grosbeak
This is the flight test for instructors at our club:
The objective of this test is to demonstrate to the examiner, the safe flying and overall total control of the model, in all positions, and attitudes, required to teach the R/C flight training course.
1. On the command from the examiner, the examinee will fly three circuits (touch and go each time) land full stop after third;
2. Fly three straight flights (stretched figure eight) into wind, right turn, downwind left turn (assuming a Westerly wind). Refuel if necessary;
3. Fly three inverted straight flights, stretched figure eight into wind, right turn, downwind, left turn; (assuming a Westerly wind)
This is the flight test for instructors at our club:
The objective of this test is to demonstrate to the examiner, the safe flying and overall total control of the model, in all positions, and attitudes, required to teach the R/C flight training course.
1. On the command from the examiner, the examinee will fly three circuits (touch and go each time) land full stop after third;
2. Fly three straight flights (stretched figure eight) into wind, right turn, downwind left turn (assuming a Westerly wind). Refuel if necessary;
3. Fly three inverted straight flights, stretched figure eight into wind, right turn, downwind, left turn; (assuming a Westerly wind)
Thats it? I know allot people that can do that and are horrible instructors!
The key to being a good instructor is explaining calmy, clearly and accurately what you are trying to convey to the student. If you convey wrong information or contradicting information, you hurt your credibility and confuse/frustrate the student.
I have seen really good pilots try and teach someone to fly, only to see them both walk away at the end of the flight frustrated.
One thing i rarely see done in many clubs is a ground lesson before the flight explaining what the objectives of the flight are, how to accomplish them, and any abnormal (common) things that can be expected. This gives the student a great deal of information to reflect on and it is fresh in their minds for the flight.
Also while in the process of the flight, a good instructor should be talkative enough to explain the manuever and any corrections needed without being to talkative.
Just my thoughts from being a CFI/CFII for 7 years, and rc instructor for 15
ALL Excellent advice!! IMHO from a retired ATP B-727, CFII/MEI, etc.; there should be a designated "Chief Instructor" for the Club to give a pass/fail flight check for the Club, but in reality, ANYONE can help a new person to learn. When I was starting out or advancing in the hobby, I would take my plane to someone I would trust with my money and equipment. Just because the Club says they are alright, doesn't mean that I would trust them with my planes or equipment. This is supposed to be a fun hobby and the more restrictions you place on people, the more the fun goes away. This also create more arguements amongst the "Old Men" (I am there too) of the Club. I only teach/help/maiden advance students that are up grading to Turbine, since I am a Turbine CD Instructor or gasoline planes. One of the reasons that I got out of the primary training, is all of the new small foamie planes that are coming out, and most of the time, the new student buys it because the hobby shop is trying to make the sale, and let the guys at the field figure out how to teach them on it. Most of the time, you can't connect up the transmitter to a buddy box, and that has become an issue in the training process. Good Luck with this, but as you see, there is already frustration and destention in the Club because of trying to limit people again.
11-30-2012, 08:32 AM
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RE: Flight instructor job description
I believe there should be some sort of requirement to teach...in other words...the instructor canditate demonstrates some sort of flight skills.
The club I belonged to when I was taught had these requirements...3 consecitive loops, 3 consective rolls, fly the pattern inverted, and stall recovery. 3 touch and goes
Of course you need all the other qualities like a calm voice and the desire
The club I belonged to when I was taught had these requirements...3 consecitive loops, 3 consective rolls, fly the pattern inverted, and stall recovery. 3 touch and goes
Of course you need all the other qualities like a calm voice and the desire
11-30-2012, 09:09 AM
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RE: Flight instructor job description
I'm an instructor at my club and I was asked to demonstrate proficiency in both conventional and aerobatic maneuvers before I was "qualified" as an instructor. Looking back, it's probably overkill. Being a good instructor is less about how hotshot a pilot you are and more about one's ability to CONVEY knowledge and instruction to another.
I know many good pilots that don't have the patience or teaching skills to instruct. I also know excellent instructors who I would assess as "intermediate" level pilots. These guys are not IMAC, 3D or pattern pilots (I count myself among this group). But they are excellent at teaching others how to properly take-off, fly the pattern in BOTH directions and land. And to do this all SAFELY and use good judgement. BTW, I don't believe that one needs to be proficient in inverted flight to be a great primary training instructor.
Ground instruction is the most overlooked aspect of training. Determining the preparedness and airworthiness of a model is just as important as instruction in the air. I've seen plenty of flights undertaken that ended badly just by looking at the preparedness of both the pilot and the model before it hits the runway. Before we start the engine, I always emphasize to a student that we need to insure that the model is airworthy, that we know what the wind's doing and how it will effect our flying and that we have a PLAN on how we're going to spend our 10 airborne minutes.
One last point. If anything is formalized by the club, it should only be what constitutes proficiency needed for solo. Every student learns differently and you can't mandate how someone's taught. Each instructor should use the teaching method's they're comfortable with and that they believe the student's comfortable with. Then, you work until the student has demonstrated the proficiency needed to unplug the buddy box.
I know many good pilots that don't have the patience or teaching skills to instruct. I also know excellent instructors who I would assess as "intermediate" level pilots. These guys are not IMAC, 3D or pattern pilots (I count myself among this group). But they are excellent at teaching others how to properly take-off, fly the pattern in BOTH directions and land. And to do this all SAFELY and use good judgement. BTW, I don't believe that one needs to be proficient in inverted flight to be a great primary training instructor.
Ground instruction is the most overlooked aspect of training. Determining the preparedness and airworthiness of a model is just as important as instruction in the air. I've seen plenty of flights undertaken that ended badly just by looking at the preparedness of both the pilot and the model before it hits the runway. Before we start the engine, I always emphasize to a student that we need to insure that the model is airworthy, that we know what the wind's doing and how it will effect our flying and that we have a PLAN on how we're going to spend our 10 airborne minutes.
One last point. If anything is formalized by the club, it should only be what constitutes proficiency needed for solo. Every student learns differently and you can't mandate how someone's taught. Each instructor should use the teaching method's they're comfortable with and that they believe the student's comfortable with. Then, you work until the student has demonstrated the proficiency needed to unplug the buddy box.
11-30-2012, 09:28 AM
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RE: Flight instructor job description
ORIGINAL: Luchnia
I guess I am missing something here as I believe many students are very influenced by what their instructor does and says. I think an instructor should be held to a much higher standard as he or she is an instructor or you could say a teacher. If one does not teach safety and other things that could result in a future problem.
Is this an incorrect way of thinking about an instructor? How will a student know what to do? Will the student just figure it out on his/her own? The reason I state this is because I have seen this first hand and watched the results. Also don't we know that the student reflects our teaching?
An example might be one who tells a student, ''Don't really worry about any pre-flight, I never pre-flight my planes and never have an issue and don't bother about the flying over the pits thing that you hear about. At this club we really don't have those type of rules. We are free to do whatever we want really, just watch out for certain people that make the rules at the club and don't fly over the pits while they are here.''
Here is another example. An instructor does not teach the student proper flying when there are many planes in the air. The teacher constantly flies against the circuit, does 3D in the middle of the pattern, and causes all sorts of problems to the other pilots and does not really care about them anyway. While he is teaching his student ask him why the other guys complain about this and he says, ''They are just grumpy guys and don't know what they are talking about. Don't pay any attention to them - what do those OFs know?''
In these scenarios what is the student learning? You might say any sensible instructor would not do that, yet I have been around some that don't teach you any of the ''other'' things you need to learn about RC flying that makes you a good and respected pilot. There are many instructors due to time constraints that ''shortcut'' the process and it is reflected in the student down the road.
Thoughts?
I guess I am missing something here as I believe many students are very influenced by what their instructor does and says. I think an instructor should be held to a much higher standard as he or she is an instructor or you could say a teacher. If one does not teach safety and other things that could result in a future problem.
Is this an incorrect way of thinking about an instructor? How will a student know what to do? Will the student just figure it out on his/her own? The reason I state this is because I have seen this first hand and watched the results. Also don't we know that the student reflects our teaching?
An example might be one who tells a student, ''Don't really worry about any pre-flight, I never pre-flight my planes and never have an issue and don't bother about the flying over the pits thing that you hear about. At this club we really don't have those type of rules. We are free to do whatever we want really, just watch out for certain people that make the rules at the club and don't fly over the pits while they are here.''
Here is another example. An instructor does not teach the student proper flying when there are many planes in the air. The teacher constantly flies against the circuit, does 3D in the middle of the pattern, and causes all sorts of problems to the other pilots and does not really care about them anyway. While he is teaching his student ask him why the other guys complain about this and he says, ''They are just grumpy guys and don't know what they are talking about. Don't pay any attention to them - what do those OFs know?''
In these scenarios what is the student learning? You might say any sensible instructor would not do that, yet I have been around some that don't teach you any of the ''other'' things you need to learn about RC flying that makes you a good and respected pilot. There are many instructors due to time constraints that ''shortcut'' the process and it is reflected in the student down the road.
Thoughts?
As stated in a previous post, ground instruction is vitally important. It all starts with a plane that airworthy. That's where the safety comes in. A plane that's not airworthy has the risk of injuring someone even in the hands of a very experienced pilot. There's a long list of thing's that can go wrong that a transmitter cannot help you recover from.
I believe assessing the qualities of a good instructor is more about the judgement they use and the care and attention to detail they exercise and less about how many inverted maneuvers they can accomplish.