using rudder
05-06-2013 | 03:02 PM
#52
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: Ron Stahl
Our chief instructor now insists on mixing rudder from the aileron input on every plane he flies to '' make it easier to take off'' . I could not disagree more as the previous chief instructor for the club. I prefer to fly the plane and not cause the plane to roll when I want or need it to yaw on take off or landing. He feels that it is a burden to teach a student to use the rudder to steer the plane and his justification is we have automatic transmission so we don't have to use a clutch anymore why even have a rudder control.
Our chief instructor now insists on mixing rudder from the aileron input on every plane he flies to '' make it easier to take off'' . I could not disagree more as the previous chief instructor for the club. I prefer to fly the plane and not cause the plane to roll when I want or need it to yaw on take off or landing. He feels that it is a burden to teach a student to use the rudder to steer the plane and his justification is we have automatic transmission so we don't have to use a clutch anymore why even have a rudder control.
This sounds like the blind leading the blind, sounds like this instructor needs to go back and get some instruction on the great uses of rudder control...
Bob
05-06-2013 | 04:30 PM
#53
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From: Sailing in the Eastern Caribbean
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: sensei
This sounds like the blind leading the blind, sounds like this instructor needs to go back and get some instruction on the great uses of rudder control...
Bob
ORIGINAL: Ron Stahl
Our chief instructor now insists on mixing rudder from the aileron input on every plane he flies to '' make it easier to take off'' . I could not disagree more as the previous chief instructor for the club. I prefer to fly the plane and not cause the plane to roll when I want or need it to yaw on take off or landing. He feels that it is a burden to teach a student to use the rudder to steer the plane and his justification is we have automatic transmission so we don't have to use a clutch anymore why even have a rudder control.
Our chief instructor now insists on mixing rudder from the aileron input on every plane he flies to '' make it easier to take off'' . I could not disagree more as the previous chief instructor for the club. I prefer to fly the plane and not cause the plane to roll when I want or need it to yaw on take off or landing. He feels that it is a burden to teach a student to use the rudder to steer the plane and his justification is we have automatic transmission so we don't have to use a clutch anymore why even have a rudder control.
This sounds like the blind leading the blind, sounds like this instructor needs to go back and get some instruction on the great uses of rudder control...
Bob
I see nothing wrong in doing this.
05-06-2013 | 05:27 PM
#54
RE: using rudder
Like I have always said, there are not bad students, only bad teachers. He stated the new instructor at their field teaches why use rudder, we don't use a clutch anymore because we drive cars with automatic transmissions... Eventually one would most likely learn to fly without the instructor, but why would he want to go that way?
Bob
Bob
05-06-2013 | 06:50 PM
#55
My Feedback: (29)
RE: using rudder
When I taught my kids to fly I would take a wingless trainer down to the schoolyard and have them drive it around. They learned how to start, tune the engine and rudder/throttle control before taking to the air. Once the flying started all three of them were flying around unassisted their first time out. I always teach rudder usage as early as I feel the student is capable.
05-07-2013 | 04:13 PM
#56
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From: OR
RE: using rudder
In this new day-and-age, many pilots are learning on the (in)famousHobbyZone SuperCub.
A 3-channel airplane with a steerable-tailwheel.
The dihedral will force rudder input to roll the aircraft, but the tailwheel remains on the right-stick?
I see no problems with teaching a student to program and use aileron-rudder mixing for coordinated turns.
So, long as the student knows that the mixing shouldn't be used as a crutch. It must be unlearned, eventually.
Same thing with automatic and manual-transmissions. Learn to drive both....</p>
05-07-2013 | 05:46 PM
#58
My Feedback: (15)
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: ssautter
...Same thing with automatic and manual-transmissions. Learn to drive both....</p>
...Same thing with automatic and manual-transmissions. Learn to drive both....</p>
Kurt
05-08-2013 | 03:33 AM
#59
RE: using rudder
I agree with speed, learn to use both sticks from the beginning. NOTE: If your going call yourself a club instructor and instruct beginners to fly; then you have made this your own vast project and responsibility to instruct properly, so remember; don't start vast projects with half vast Ideas.... Can you imagine a full scale instructor placing rudder control on the yoke with the ailerons for his students. 
Bob
Bob
05-08-2013 | 03:34 AM
#60
My Feedback: (158)
RE: using rudder
Don't use Dual rates,, just learn to use the stick more precisely
Don't use Expo,, same as above
Don't use servo reversing, learn to set the plane up.
Don't use Sub-trim, same as above
etc.
etc.
All "crutches" right? I flew without those crutches for years too
Funny how you guy say "fly a Heli to hone rudder skills",, Apply this "don't use mixing" purest theory to helicopters,, and don't use a Gyro learn to use the rudder and you'd have a uncontrollable eggbeater crashing constantly,, "Cricket" anyone??
See these features on the radio make the flying experience more enjoyable and when used correctly make for a better flying more finely tuned machine, they don't replace flying or learning how,, they just make it better.
Disconnect the power steering and power brakes from your car and see how enjoyable that experience used to be,,
Don't use Expo,, same as above
Don't use servo reversing, learn to set the plane up.
Don't use Sub-trim, same as above
etc.
etc.
All "crutches" right? I flew without those crutches for years too
Funny how you guy say "fly a Heli to hone rudder skills",, Apply this "don't use mixing" purest theory to helicopters,, and don't use a Gyro learn to use the rudder and you'd have a uncontrollable eggbeater crashing constantly,, "Cricket" anyone??
See these features on the radio make the flying experience more enjoyable and when used correctly make for a better flying more finely tuned machine, they don't replace flying or learning how,, they just make it better.
Disconnect the power steering and power brakes from your car and see how enjoyable that experience used to be,,
05-08-2013 | 07:48 AM
#62
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From: , CA
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie
With very few exceptions coordinating turns with rudder is not necessary. It has the potential to create more issues then fix. learning to use your left hand early on is the best way to go.
With very few exceptions coordinating turns with rudder is not necessary. It has the potential to create more issues then fix. learning to use your left hand early on is the best way to go.
05-08-2013 | 04:59 PM
#63
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From: OR
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: Bozarth
Are you saying I have to teach my 19 yr. and 17 yr. old daughters to drive a stick? Never going to happen. I would rather fly Free Flight long before I do that!
Kurt
Are you saying I have to teach my 19 yr. and 17 yr. old daughters to drive a stick? Never going to happen. I would rather fly Free Flight long before I do that!
Kurt
Or ridethe stick .... whatever.
And, yes I fly free flight.
</p>
05-08-2013 | 08:05 PM
#65
My Feedback: (15)
RE: using rudder
For all of the regular guys here at RCU, ssautter is a punk. Typical of what a dirtbag would type sitting safe in his momma's basement, but wouldn't dare say to my face. I am sad for you, ssautter. Your reputation will forever precede you. A real class act.
Kurt
Added: To the moderator: Please do not remove ssautter's little remarks. Give others the chance to see his character, or lack there of. I'm sure he will delete them very quickly. I purposely chose not to "quote" him.
Kurt
Added: To the moderator: Please do not remove ssautter's little remarks. Give others the chance to see his character, or lack there of. I'm sure he will delete them very quickly. I purposely chose not to "quote" him.
05-09-2013 | 04:24 AM
#67
My Feedback: (15)
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: [email protected]
Yeah right? That crossed a line. who the @&$? Says that about another mans daughters? What a looser.
Yeah right? That crossed a line. who the @&$? Says that about another mans daughters? What a looser.
Ssauter, your comments are vile on so many levels...but you seem to know that don't you. Seems you are a stirrer of the pot for attention.
05-09-2013 | 06:41 AM
#68
My Feedback: (15)
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: [email protected]
Yeah right? That crossed a line. who the @&$? Says that about another mans daughters? What a looser.
Yeah right? That crossed a line. who the @&$? Says that about another mans daughters? What a looser.
Where did ssauter's pathetic post go, along with my response? I had even asked the moderator to leave it up so the regulars here on RCU could see ssauter's wonderful comments. He is a true class act! We should all do our best to remember ssauter.
Kurt
05-09-2013 | 08:48 AM
#70
My Feedback: (158)
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: Bozarth
Where did ssauter's pathetic post go, along with my response? I had even asked the moderator to leave it up so the regulars here on RCU could see ssauter's wonderful comments. He is a true class act! We should all do our best to remember ssauter.
Kurt
ORIGINAL: [email protected]
Yeah right? That crossed a line. who the @&$? Says that about another mans daughters? What a looser.
Yeah right? That crossed a line. who the @&$? Says that about another mans daughters? What a looser.
Where did ssauter's pathetic post go, along with my response? I had even asked the moderator to leave it up so the regulars here on RCU could see ssauter's wonderful comments. He is a true class act! We should all do our best to remember ssauter.
Kurt
Why engage that behavior anyway,, you just give him the attention he seeks
05-13-2013 | 10:58 AM
#71
My Feedback: (11)
RE: using rudder
Well, if that is so... why don't you mix some elevator into the aileron channel? Why don't you mix some flaps in with the throttle? I agree with automation... use it to it's full extent. But, sometimes it does not make sense. Aileron and rudder mixing do NOT make sense. Yes learning to fly the tail on a heli will make you a better pilot because you are forced to use your left thumb in 2 axis. Nothing I hate worse than brushing back everyone on the flight line because some dolt can't or won't use some rudder on take-off.
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
Don't use Dual rates,, just learn to use the stick more precisely
Don't use Expo,, same as above
Don't use servo reversing, learn to set the plane up.
Don't use Sub-trim, same as above
etc.
etc.
All ''crutches'' right? I flew without those crutches for years too
Funny how you guy say ''fly a Heli to hone rudder skills'',, Apply this ''don't use mixing'' purest theory to helicopters,, and don't use a Gyro learn to use the rudder and you'd have a uncontrollable eggbeater crashing constantly,, ''Cricket'' anyone??
See these features on the radio make the flying experience more enjoyable and when used correctly make for a better flying more finely tuned machine, they don't replace flying or learning how,, they just make it better.
Disconnect the power steering and power brakes from your car and see how enjoyable that experience used to be,,
Don't use Dual rates,, just learn to use the stick more precisely
Don't use Expo,, same as above
Don't use servo reversing, learn to set the plane up.
Don't use Sub-trim, same as above
etc.
etc.
All ''crutches'' right? I flew without those crutches for years too
Funny how you guy say ''fly a Heli to hone rudder skills'',, Apply this ''don't use mixing'' purest theory to helicopters,, and don't use a Gyro learn to use the rudder and you'd have a uncontrollable eggbeater crashing constantly,, ''Cricket'' anyone??
See these features on the radio make the flying experience more enjoyable and when used correctly make for a better flying more finely tuned machine, they don't replace flying or learning how,, they just make it better.
Disconnect the power steering and power brakes from your car and see how enjoyable that experience used to be,,
05-13-2013 | 11:42 AM
#72
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: Bozarth
Are you saying I have to teach my 19 yr. and 17 yr. old daughters to drive a stick? Never going to happen. I would rather fly Free Flight long before I do that!
Kurt
ORIGINAL: ssautter
...Same thing with automatic and manual-transmissions. Learn to drive both....
</p>
...Same thing with automatic and manual-transmissions. Learn to drive both....
</p>
Kurt
05-13-2013 | 12:39 PM
#73
My Feedback: (158)
RE: using rudder
ORIGINAL: on_your_six
Well, if that is so... why don't you mix some elevator into the aileron channel? Why don't you mix some flaps in with the throttle? I agree with automation... use it to it's full extent. But, sometimes it does not make sense. Aileron and rudder mixing do NOT make sense. Yes learning to fly the tail on a heli will make you a better pilot because you are forced to use your left thumb in 2 axis. Nothing I hate worse than brushing back everyone on the flight line because some dolt can't or won't use some rudder on take-off.
Well, if that is so... why don't you mix some elevator into the aileron channel? Why don't you mix some flaps in with the throttle? I agree with automation... use it to it's full extent. But, sometimes it does not make sense. Aileron and rudder mixing do NOT make sense. Yes learning to fly the tail on a heli will make you a better pilot because you are forced to use your left thumb in 2 axis. Nothing I hate worse than brushing back everyone on the flight line because some dolt can't or won't use some rudder on take-off.
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
Don't use Dual rates,, just learn to use the stick more precisely
Don't use Expo,, same as above
Don't use servo reversing, learn to set the plane up.
Don't use Sub-trim, same as above
etc.
etc.
All ''crutches'' right? I flew without those crutches for years too
Funny how you guy say ''fly a Heli to hone rudder skills'',, Apply this ''don't use mixing'' purest theory to helicopters,, and don't use a Gyro learn to use the rudder and you'd have a uncontrollable eggbeater crashing constantly,, ''Cricket'' anyone??
See these features on the radio make the flying experience more enjoyable and when used correctly make for a better flying more finely tuned machine, they don't replace flying or learning how,, they just make it better.
Disconnect the power steering and power brakes from your car and see how enjoyable that experience used to be,,
Don't use Dual rates,, just learn to use the stick more precisely
Don't use Expo,, same as above
Don't use servo reversing, learn to set the plane up.
Don't use Sub-trim, same as above
etc.
etc.
All ''crutches'' right? I flew without those crutches for years too
Funny how you guy say ''fly a Heli to hone rudder skills'',, Apply this ''don't use mixing'' purest theory to helicopters,, and don't use a Gyro learn to use the rudder and you'd have a uncontrollable eggbeater crashing constantly,, ''Cricket'' anyone??
See these features on the radio make the flying experience more enjoyable and when used correctly make for a better flying more finely tuned machine, they don't replace flying or learning how,, they just make it better.
Disconnect the power steering and power brakes from your car and see how enjoyable that experience used to be,,
Why you guys focus on this line of argument is beyond me
