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White Gas

Old 03-10-2015, 10:10 AM
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A cap full or more of automotive octane booster in a gallon of Coleman fuel solves the problem of low octane.
Old 03-10-2015, 11:02 AM
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Well at $7.49 a gal for Coleman fuel, plus the octane booster... I'd rather go to the local airport and buy 100LL and be done with it.

I've never had an issue with gas odors, and I store my models in a spare back bedroom / build room... I do use quite a bit of after run oil, so that may reduce the fuel residues left behind.


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Old 03-10-2015, 04:06 PM
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You use after-run oil in a gas model engine?
Old 03-10-2015, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by roylab
A cap full or more of automotive octane booster in a gallon of Coleman fuel solves the problem of low octane.

That's not true at all
a cap full to one gallon of white gas wont increase the number much at all if any...
it takes 10 points to increase octane by 1 number
most octane boosters only increase the points by 5 to 8 per oz to one gallon of gas
and again it takes 10 points to increase octane by 1 number, so that's only 0.5 to 0.8 increase

white gas is only about 50 to 65 octane
I run 110 octane in my Ducati and it runs awesome !!
that's a whole hell of alot of octane boost per gallon of white gas to make my Ducati run right

Last edited by srt10; 03-11-2015 at 08:45 PM.
Old 03-10-2015, 05:25 PM
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Thanks to everybody who has replyed to my thread . I have learned a lot. A lot more than I thought I would . What is Octane booster and where do you get it ? I have never heard of it . Maybe it is outlawed in Canada . As for after run oil I don't really see the need for it since we are running two stroke's with oil mix in them already but if it makes you feel more comfortable I can't see where putting a little after run oil in would hurt . A drip or two down the plug hole and a few drip in the carb . hold the motor so the oil will run towards the bearings . I think I might just increase the amount of oil in the last tank of gas instead though .
Old 03-10-2015, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifer
You use after-run oil in a gas model engine?
Oh yes!... I run only 4 strokes, but gas or glow, I always use after run oil, my own mix of 50/50 10w-40 syn oil and ATF.



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Old 03-10-2015, 06:32 PM
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How do you measure your octane ?How would you know if a cap full did anything or not ? What size is the container that it comes in ? There must be some instructions so you don't over do it . I often am a bit dangerous in my thinking if a little is good a lot is better . I used to have my own plane so I had easy access to ave gas . I ran the high octane in my Harley..I think it is 120 . You need to be tuned for that though or it runs like crap . It has very little smell .The lower octane I think was 85 . Again little smell . For some reason they discourage the use of ave gas for anything but flying so I quit using it in my bike and started using super juice from Chevron .
Old 03-10-2015, 07:43 PM
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Don't run the 100LL in a modern vehicle with a catalytic converter... there is more lead content in100LL than there was back in the days of leaded gas for vehicles...they are supposedly reformulating avgas and making it unleaded... I think they're in a test phase this year.


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Old 03-11-2015, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr_Grump
If your worried about smell, use aviation gas, 100LL. I've been using it and synthetic oil for years with no side effects. It's not cheap but it has no unpleasant smell and if spilled, evaporates quickly with almost no residue. You won't need stabilizer either. I use it in all my 2 stroke engines.

Mr_G
+1

Had a club member use Coleman in his G45 with poor results. Go with Aviation gas.

Pete
Old 03-11-2015, 07:04 AM
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Av gas uses lead because the engines for planes are still old school carbed. Also pump gas containing ethanol is a bad thing, very bad thing to have in an airplane where temps are below freezing since ethanol absorbs water, which can cause line and carb freezing. You can also adjust the mixture manually on planes, run them lean to extend range, so the lead helps with lean running. The lead acts as an octane boost, the higher the octane level, the higher the compression can be before detonation(pre-ignition) occurs, which when running lean in the airplanes is needed.

You dont need high octane in our small gas engines, the compression is not very high, but you should run at least 87 octane, 90 is better as it give a smoother running motor when leaned out. Running 100LL really is not needed, though the engines will run fine, just make sure you check the plug every so often as it will foul it up from the lead. Also, be VERY careful handling 100LL, as lead can be absorbed through your skin and lungs. Lead is nasty stuff if too much gets into your bloodstream, causes nerve damage and affects your brain. If you set up the plane fuel system properly, drain the tank before storage, run the carb dry and keep it sealed up, the odors are minimal, you will smell a little on the plane, but for the most part that will go away after a day or so. I have my T-Clips with the FG-11 in my basement, and other than a couple drops of exhaust oil that dripped, there is no odor present. My DLE20 powered 4*120 also has no fuel odor, but my big DA100 powered Extra 330L I left fuel in it, so my trailer now reeks of fuel. I need to find a better line setup so I can drain it without having to pull the cowl, or flip it upside down.
Old 03-11-2015, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn
Where do you get ethanol-free gas for your car? I can't find any here (except the stuff in the hardware store for small engines, which is much too expensive for cars).
Pull up the pure gas site on your puter and look up your area. We have a Rebel gas station down the road that was supposed to have alcohol free gas but when I tested it the gas had 5% alcohol in it. The station wasn't listed on pure gas though. I still have my little alcohol tester from when I was working in a small engine repair shop so I test the gas to see how much alcohol is in it.
Old 03-11-2015, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bikerbc
Thanks to everybody who has replyed to my thread . I have learned a lot. A lot more than I thought I would . .
haha, the more I read the more guys are contradicting each other than agreeing, I don't know what I learned other than you can get lead free gas in WI,

I think for the most part we get used to the smells,, I'm sure my garage reeks of Gas smell, I'm just not bothered by it anymore
Old 03-11-2015, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by John_M_
Don't run the 100LL in a modern vehicle with a catalytic converter... there is more lead content in100LL than there was back in the days of leaded gas for vehicles...they are supposedly reformulating avgas and making it unleaded... I think they're in a test phase this year.


John M
I've read about reformulation of Avgas for years now. To me, it ain;t happening, no in my lifetime anyway.
Regardless, I've used avgas in my small gassies (to 60cc) almost exclusively for 5 years. It works great but here are the details:
-Takes a slightly leaner setting, maybe 1/16 turn, than auto gas
-It isn't as expensive as some might think. At present it runs about 3.50$ a gallon. So gallon cost ready to go will be around 5$. To me that's not expensive.
-Local Muny airports are the best sources. They are alot less fussy about aircraft N numbers and such
-Stability is measured in years
-No smell to speak of
-Lead exists but content is pretty low

BUT:
-Power will be slightly down over autogas premium. If you're getting 7500 rpm with premium, you will get around 7200 with avgas. To me, that's miniscule difference and greatly overshadowed by the advantages. My application simply doesn't require the absolute max output. I use 2/3rds throttle practically always regardless.
-The lead content is high enough where the plug will need cleaning every 12-15 gallons. No big deal. Besides after a dozen gallons, the engine insides should be looked at and some minor cleaning is almost always required around the head, if the mixture is right.

BTW I didn't read this stuff somewhere. This came from personal experience running 30-60cc 2 stroke single jug gas engines (about 7 different makes so far and counting) with full tuned pipe set-ups. I have 4 stroke and twin engines yet to be tested so we'll see how these will work on avgas.

Last edited by MTK; 03-12-2015 at 06:56 AM.
Old 03-11-2015, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Gray Beard
Pull up the pure gas site on your puter and look up your area. We have a Rebel gas station down the road that was supposed to have alcohol free gas but when I tested it the gas had 5% alcohol in it. The station wasn't listed on pure gas though. I still have my little alcohol tester from when I was working in a small engine repair shop so I test the gas to see how much alcohol is in it.
Where can I get one of those testers?

Originally Posted by MTK
I've read about reformulation of Avgas for years now. To me, it ain;t happening, no in my lifetime anyway.
Regardless, I've used avgas in my small gassies (to 60cc) almost exclusively for 5 years. It works great but here are the details:
-Takes a slightly leaner setting, maybe 1/16 turn, than auto gas
-It isn't as expensive as some might think. At present it runs about 3.50$ a gallon. So gallon cost ready to go will be around 5$. To me that's not expensive.
-Local Muny airports are the best sources. They are alot less fussy about aircraft N numbers and such
-Stability is measured in years
-No smell to speak of
-Lead exists but content is pretty low

BUT:
-Power will be slightly down over autogas premium. If you're getting 7500 rpm with premium, you will get around 7200 with avgas
-The lead content is high enough where the plug will need cleaning every 12-15 gallons. No big deal. Besides after a dozen gallons, the engine insides should be looked at and some minor cleaning is almost always required around the head, if the mixture is right.
Good points all around. The one about peak power though, simple really, Aircraft engines are used at certain RPMs, and stay there, and rarely ever go WOT max RPM, while our little buggers we try to eek out every single RPM we can. High octane is used for high compression engines, or lean run applications such as airplane engines. This is why the lower RPM using avgas, it is much slower burning than 90 octane, but much less chance of pre-ignition, so works out well. I wouldnt mind trying it, especially if shelf life is longer than pump gas, and no alcohol in it. I just dont have an airport that has a pump, the one near me brings it in by truck.
Old 03-11-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me
haha, the more I read the more guys are contradicting each other than agreeing, I don't know what I learned other than you can get lead free gas in WI,

I think for the most part we get used to the smells,, I'm sure my garage reeks of Gas smell, I'm just not bothered by it anymore
Well, it is RCU and all opinions. I'm not bothered by the gas smell either but I know guys that keep there planes in there homes so understand the smell problem.
I was flying Monday and my planes are still in the van, I wasn't in any shape to get them out and back in the shop. I don't care if my shop smells like gas or any of the products I use out there.
The shop is mine and the guys that come over can smoke drink and fart all the like in the shop. It's my version of the man cave. When my wife comes out to visit and she doesn't like the smell she doesn't hang out long. Neither of us care much.
Old 03-11-2015, 11:05 AM
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Well I do draw the line at Farting, some guys can put out a really odoriferous stench that will peel the dope off my Cub.
Old 03-11-2015, 11:08 AM
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May not always be nice but no one has ever volunteered to use a cork. I have a door and window if the air turns green.
Old 03-11-2015, 11:10 AM
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LMAO, I dont have windows, just a bathroom fan to vent with. My workbenches are grouped together so yeah, that would not be good. LOL
Old 03-11-2015, 01:07 PM
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My cousin went to his local airport and was told that they could not sell AVGAS to the public any more, only to fuel planes. Not sure what that's about and hope it is only isolated.
Blazer
Old 03-11-2015, 01:30 PM
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That is true in may areas due to EPA DOT and IRS. They want to regulate who purchases the fuel so that it is used for the correct application. Same goes for Farm Diesel.
Old 03-11-2015, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
LMAO, I dont have windows, just a bathroom fan to vent with. My workbenches are grouped together so yeah, that would not be good. LOL
I too have A nice bathroom with an exhaust vent, problem is I have no friends polite enough to use it !!!
My local airports wouldn't allow you to pump the gas into a car or truck but they had no problems with you pumping into a 55 gallon drum. In my case I had a lot of 15 gallon drums and had no problems. I was using it in my sand rail and was after the lead. I never asked if they had white gas or not but they had alcohol free leaded gas so I was a happy camper.

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