Solder help
04-09-2006, 03:58 AM
#27
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RE: Solder help
KMOT is right but I have always found that it's not enough to just tighten the fixing nuts - you need to first loosen the nuts and give the soldering tip a quick rattle in it's mounting, then retighten. This way you remake the joint and, I guess, dislodge or abrade some of the inevitable oxidation on the mating face. I do this every time I solder now and have never had a problem heating the workpiece since I learned to do that I must. Before then, like you, I would find that the iron sometimes would not even melt the solder even if applied directly to the tip.
As for the torch approach, all I would say is exercise extreme caution as it is very easy to overheat the stock and as a result drastically weaken the item.
hope this helps a little.
Spad
As for the torch approach, all I would say is exercise extreme caution as it is very easy to overheat the stock and as a result drastically weaken the item.
hope this helps a little.
Spad
04-09-2006, 10:45 AM
#28
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RE: Solder help
It's the coiled stuff. I think it was a 3/16 in diameter, or something like that. Melting point of 450F. The package said it was for joining copper tubing in plumbing applications. It's 100% lead free silver solder.
This right here is exactly what I bought from Lowe's.
This right here is exactly what I bought from Lowe's.
ORIGINAL: Kmot
RVM: I think you may have just mentioned something. Your solder. Is it thin, in a coil? Or is it a stiff, 12" long rod? If it is the rod, that is for "brazing', not soldering. You will get nowhere with any type of sodering gun/iron/station with silver brazing rod. I just did a search for "Bernzomatic silver solder" and I could only find info relating to silver brazing rod. http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...rnzoProd100063
Try the Stay Brite brand of silver solder from Harris. It will do what you need to do.
http://www.jwharris.com/jwprod/solderalloys/#SBSolder
RVM: I think you may have just mentioned something. Your solder. Is it thin, in a coil? Or is it a stiff, 12" long rod? If it is the rod, that is for "brazing', not soldering. You will get nowhere with any type of sodering gun/iron/station with silver brazing rod. I just did a search for "Bernzomatic silver solder" and I could only find info relating to silver brazing rod. http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...rnzoProd100063
Try the Stay Brite brand of silver solder from Harris. It will do what you need to do.
http://www.jwharris.com/jwprod/solderalloys/#SBSolder
04-09-2006, 10:47 AM
#29
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RE: Solder help
haha yeah it sure does seem like that lately.
Better to ask for advice and make sure you do the job right rather than do it on your own thinking you are doing it right and risk doing something wrong that could cost you a lot of time and money later down the road. I've never been afraid to ask for help when I'm not 100% sure about something!
Better to ask for advice and make sure you do the job right rather than do it on your own thinking you are doing it right and risk doing something wrong that could cost you a lot of time and money later down the road. I've never been afraid to ask for help when I'm not 100% sure about something!
ORIGINAL: jettstarblue
Sounds like you have problems with a lot of stuff!
Sounds like you have problems with a lot of stuff!
04-09-2006, 10:52 AM
#30
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RE: Solder help
Hmm was hoping not to spend that much, but if I have to I will.
I'm gonna go check around town this afternoon see if anyone besides Lowe's has what you guys have suggested. If nothing else I guess I'll just have to order it online and wait for it to come in to start work on my plane again. *sigh*
Thanks for the links kmot!
I'm gonna go check around town this afternoon see if anyone besides Lowe's has what you guys have suggested. If nothing else I guess I'll just have to order it online and wait for it to come in to start work on my plane again. *sigh*
Thanks for the links kmot!
ORIGINAL: Kmot
PS: You can buy the Weller WES51 soldering station (analog version) for $99:
http://www.action-electronics.com/wewes51.htm
Or the digital version like I have for $129:
http://www.action-electronics.com/wewesd51.htm
PS: You can buy the Weller WES51 soldering station (analog version) for $99:
http://www.action-electronics.com/wewes51.htm
Or the digital version like I have for $129:
http://www.action-electronics.com/wewesd51.htm
04-09-2006, 02:39 PM
#32
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RE: Solder help
On those solder guns you need to periodicaly loosen up the nuts that hold the tips in place. This breaks up the oxidization and retighening it makes for a renewed connection so the power can flow unimpeded to the tip. If you don't do this from time to time the gun will not heat the joints enough to get a decent solder job. Don't ask how I know.
04-09-2006, 10:17 PM
#34
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RE: Solder help
I tried that and I don't think it worked.
Well, my 80w Weller iron doesn't seem strong enough to get anything (including pushpins) hot enough to melt solder. This is the second one I have tried as I returned the first one.
Would a 40w station from Radio Shack be better?
I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
ORIGINAL: jettstarblue
Don't forget to tin the tip....I think this was mentioned before. It makes life a lot easier!
Don't forget to tin the tip....I think this was mentioned before. It makes life a lot easier!
Well, my 80w Weller iron doesn't seem strong enough to get anything (including pushpins) hot enough to melt solder. This is the second one I have tried as I returned the first one.
Would a 40w station from Radio Shack be better?
I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
04-09-2006, 10:26 PM
#35
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RE: Solder help
If it looks like it'll work I'm not going to order the Sta-Brite then unless there is an actual difference.
I can't believe I haven't been able to work on my plane for 5 days because of one stupid, tiny issue.
This is retarded, or I am or something.
I can't believe I haven't been able to work on my plane for 5 days because of one stupid, tiny issue.
This is retarded, or I am or something.
ORIGINAL: Kmot
RVM: that solder you have looks like the good stuff alright!
RVM: that solder you have looks like the good stuff alright!
04-09-2006, 10:31 PM
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RE: Solder help
There is a reason that stuff is sold by Bernzomatic. It is for use with a torch. You are not going to get that stuff to flow with any ordinary soldering iron. Anyone who says different has not had my experience working with it. It's for plumbing. Plumbers dont' carry around soldering irons, they carry around propane and mapp gas torches. There is a reason for that. It takes a lot of heat to melt that silver plumbing solder.
Go to radio shak or similar, get the 60/40 "lead alloy" stuff, and use it. It wont't fail you, and it will melt easily with your iron or gun. Although if you are using it for pushrods, a gun will be better IMO. Just don't get the acid core stuff, make sure it's rosin core.
The stay-brite stuff (or whatever), I can't comment on, as I've never used it. It may indeed work well with irons or guns, but why waste money when you can get stuff that will work locally--no shipping, no waiting. Go back to lowes, and get some solder called 60/40 rosin core, and go to work! One of the LHS that I frequent only sells 60/40 solder.
Go to radio shak or similar, get the 60/40 "lead alloy" stuff, and use it. It wont't fail you, and it will melt easily with your iron or gun. Although if you are using it for pushrods, a gun will be better IMO. Just don't get the acid core stuff, make sure it's rosin core.
The stay-brite stuff (or whatever), I can't comment on, as I've never used it. It may indeed work well with irons or guns, but why waste money when you can get stuff that will work locally--no shipping, no waiting. Go back to lowes, and get some solder called 60/40 rosin core, and go to work! One of the LHS that I frequent only sells 60/40 solder.
04-09-2006, 10:34 PM
#37
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RE: Solder help
Hmm okie. I was led to believe the regular solder, which I've used somewhat effectively, though messily (is that a word) is not a great idea for mechanical joints.
Thanks!
Thanks!
ORIGINAL: 2slow2matter
There is a reason that stuff is sold by Bernzomatic. It is for use with a torch. You are not going to get that stuff to flow with any ordinary soldering iron. Anyone who says different has not had my experience working with it. It's for plumbing. Plumbers dont' carry around soldering irons, they carry around propane and mapp gas torches. There is a reason for that. It takes a lot of heat to melt that silver plumbing solder.
Go to radio shak or similar, get the 60/40 "lead alloy" stuff, and use it. It wont't fail you, and it will melt easily with your iron or gun. Although if you are using it for pushrods, a gun will be better IMO. Just don't get the acid core stuff, make sure it's rosin core.
The stay-brite stuff (or whatever), I can't comment on, as I've never used it. It may indeed work well with irons or guns, but why waste money when you can get stuff that will work locally--no shipping, no waiting. Go back to lowes, and get some solder called 60/40 rosin core, and go to work! One of the LHS that I frequent only sells 60/40 solder.
There is a reason that stuff is sold by Bernzomatic. It is for use with a torch. You are not going to get that stuff to flow with any ordinary soldering iron. Anyone who says different has not had my experience working with it. It's for plumbing. Plumbers dont' carry around soldering irons, they carry around propane and mapp gas torches. There is a reason for that. It takes a lot of heat to melt that silver plumbing solder.
Go to radio shak or similar, get the 60/40 "lead alloy" stuff, and use it. It wont't fail you, and it will melt easily with your iron or gun. Although if you are using it for pushrods, a gun will be better IMO. Just don't get the acid core stuff, make sure it's rosin core.
The stay-brite stuff (or whatever), I can't comment on, as I've never used it. It may indeed work well with irons or guns, but why waste money when you can get stuff that will work locally--no shipping, no waiting. Go back to lowes, and get some solder called 60/40 rosin core, and go to work! One of the LHS that I frequent only sells 60/40 solder.
04-10-2006, 06:38 AM
#38
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RE: Solder help
If your 80w Weller doesn't work then a 40w "station" isn't going to work any better.
I have a Weller gun (don't know the wattage) and it works fine on the big stuff. I have a Weller soldering iron (don't know that one's wattage either) that I bought at Radio shack for 19.99....it works fine too.
I have some silver solder I bought at Radio Shack (came in a tube coiled up) an I rarely used it. I have some Weller 60/40 rosin core that I use on just about everything. I also Have a 5 pound roll of some stuff I bought at a yard sale for 3 dollars. Don't know what it is, 'cause the lable is gone, but it's shiny like the silver solder I got from Radio Shack, just about twice the diameter. It works fine too.
I have a Weller gun (don't know the wattage) and it works fine on the big stuff. I have a Weller soldering iron (don't know that one's wattage either) that I bought at Radio shack for 19.99....it works fine too.
I have some silver solder I bought at Radio Shack (came in a tube coiled up) an I rarely used it. I have some Weller 60/40 rosin core that I use on just about everything. I also Have a 5 pound roll of some stuff I bought at a yard sale for 3 dollars. Don't know what it is, 'cause the lable is gone, but it's shiny like the silver solder I got from Radio Shack, just about twice the diameter. It works fine too.
04-10-2006, 07:08 AM
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RE: Solder help
I think this has been mentioned once or twice in this thread, but not emphasized heavily enough.....the tip of your iron must be clean and brightly tinned. You need to occasionally file it down to bare metal and re-tin it to get good heat transfer.
04-10-2006, 08:26 AM
#41
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RE: Solder help
Keep the tip clean between heat applications -- a wet cellulose free sponge (the yellow one's that look like Sponge Bob). Quick wipe between heat applications will remove the oxidation that builds up keeping the tip shinny. Also remember to lay the sodler cross the item being soldered and bring the tip down on 1/16 - 1/8 of an inch of the solder then remove the solder. This will place a small amount on the tip in contact with the item for much better heat transfer. Feed from the far end of the joint (should run to heat). Another thing not posted here yet, the items that you are soldering, must be completely stable. A joint must not move during cooling (never quench). Keep the tip tinned. Also, butane driven soldering irons also work great.
04-10-2006, 11:56 AM
#43
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RE: Solder help
Hmm interesting. I could use kevlar thread too I imagine. On that note, what about fiberglass cloth?
I'll check Hibbett's or something like that for some braided nylon. Might be worth a try.
Thanks for the link!
I'll check Hibbett's or something like that for some braided nylon. Might be worth a try.
Thanks for the link!
ORIGINAL: Kmot
RVM: here is an alternative for you!
http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/hfartic...o/v9-2-30.html
RVM: here is an alternative for you!
http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/hfartic...o/v9-2-30.html
04-10-2006, 12:24 PM
#44
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RE: Solder help
I called 13 different places around the area and about half didn't know what braided nylon was and the other half didn't have it. I asked about kevlar too and 2 people asked me "what's kevlar?"...
I really, really hate where I live.
Anyway, I think I'm just going to solder the parts today. Do I need to use flux with a rosin core solder? If so, what kind?
Thanks!
I really, really hate where I live.
Anyway, I think I'm just going to solder the parts today. Do I need to use flux with a rosin core solder? If so, what kind?
Thanks!
04-10-2006, 03:59 PM
#45
RE: Solder help
RVM: rosin core solder is used for electronics and if you were soldering on a printed circuit board you would not want to use extra flux. The flux in the center of the solder would be adequate.
But, when working on other than PCB's it is very much a help to add external flux as well. I use external flux, for example, when I build battery packs. And when I solder the connectors for the battery packs. And of course, for any mechanical type soldering like landing gear wires. You will find that using an external flux just helps the solder to flow faster and so you do not need to keep the iron on the work for as along. This is important if you are soldering battery packs together because you do not want to overheat the batteries. On other types of soldering, it is just a nice convenience.
But, when working on other than PCB's it is very much a help to add external flux as well. I use external flux, for example, when I build battery packs. And when I solder the connectors for the battery packs. And of course, for any mechanical type soldering like landing gear wires. You will find that using an external flux just helps the solder to flow faster and so you do not need to keep the iron on the work for as along. This is important if you are soldering battery packs together because you do not want to overheat the batteries. On other types of soldering, it is just a nice convenience.
04-10-2006, 08:57 PM
#46
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RE: Solder help
Thanks to everyone's significant help here I was finally able to get this soldered.
I went and picked up a small butane torch. I grabbed my 10d nails, cleaned them up and got them ready to practice on. I put my Bernzomatic flux on, lit the torch and got everything nice and hot. Stuck the Bernzomatic silver solder to the joint and for the first time ever I saw true "flow" from solder. It filled the joint perfectly, going everywhere the massive amounts of flux I had used went. I fed in a bit more solder, covered most of the copper wrapping and removed heat. I let it cool on its own. I picked it up and tried to pull it apart. The joint held. In fact, the 10d nails bent from the force.
So, I did the same thing to my torque rods. I don't think I have to worry about joint failure here. Too bad I cut about half off the length that was supposed to go into the flap. Grr I hope it's still long enough. Anyway...
Thank you so much to everyone for your advice and patience. It really helped!
I went and picked up a small butane torch. I grabbed my 10d nails, cleaned them up and got them ready to practice on. I put my Bernzomatic flux on, lit the torch and got everything nice and hot. Stuck the Bernzomatic silver solder to the joint and for the first time ever I saw true "flow" from solder. It filled the joint perfectly, going everywhere the massive amounts of flux I had used went. I fed in a bit more solder, covered most of the copper wrapping and removed heat. I let it cool on its own. I picked it up and tried to pull it apart. The joint held. In fact, the 10d nails bent from the force.
So, I did the same thing to my torque rods. I don't think I have to worry about joint failure here. Too bad I cut about half off the length that was supposed to go into the flap. Grr I hope it's still long enough. Anyway...
Thank you so much to everyone for your advice and patience. It really helped!
04-10-2006, 09:29 PM
#47
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RE: Solder help
Very nice. Glad it worked out for you. I've found that a torch is the only thing that's going to make that silver plumbing solder go anywhere. Once it goes, it flows real nicely.
For future reference, an iron and some rosin core will hold just as well, and you don't have to deal with a torch.
There, I've said it for the tenth time now
For future reference, an iron and some rosin core will hold just as well, and you don't have to deal with a torch.
There, I've said it for the tenth time now
04-10-2006, 10:04 PM
#48
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RE: Solder help
haha Well I already had the silver stuff and Lowe's was out of the rosin core so I figured I'd just pick up a torch and do what I could to get it right. I took my time heating the rods and it paid off with a joint that looks just as good as the ones I've seen posted in the forums. I'm happy.