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Whose air is it?

Old 04-11-2007, 09:53 AM
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broke_n_bummin
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Default Whose air is it?

Yesterday I had my Spirit up about 500 ft, when out of nowhere came a flight (2) A10's at about 150 ft AGL. One of them cut right under my plane. I thought they would have seen it and headed off somewhere else, but they felt it was necessary to stay in my front yard. As soon as I landed, they left. I live about 60 miles from Shaw AFB, and the A 10's fly over here all the time. I have also seen some F16's and F22's, but they stay up higher than I can reach. The thing I don't understand is why they don't practice their maneuvers over Ft. Jackson ... it's only 20 miles from them. Anyways, Who has the right of way? I've already had a couple of know it all AMA airplane police try to tell me that I can't fly my RC planes at my house, but I think they were just jeallous because they don't have a 20 acre yard. There has been a few times I wondered what it'd be like if I could get my hands on an old SA3 or SA5 (just the radar station) and turn it on just as they pass overhead just to see their reaction to a SAM spike. I wonder what would happen if they were to suck something the size of an OS 1.20 into one of their fans. There is plenty of area out here for them to play around in ... All I want is my yard.
Old 04-11-2007, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

Hi!
The military is always right!
Old 04-11-2007, 10:07 AM
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RCKen
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

Full scale planes always have right of way.

Ken
Old 04-11-2007, 10:12 AM
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bhole74
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

There has been a few times I wondered what it'd be like if I could get my hands on an old SA3 or SA5 (just the radar station) and turn it on just as they pass overhead just to see their reaction to a SAM spike.
Do you wonder what jail is like?

I wonder what would happen if they were to suck something the size of an OS 1.20 into one of their fans. There is plenty of area out here for them to play around in ... All I want is my yard.
Don't even go there. We are much better off without FAA getting involed and putting an end to our hobby. A military jet brought down by a model aircraft? **it would hit the fan.

This thread should go away!
Old 04-11-2007, 10:24 AM
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vicman
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

Not wanting to be an AMA "knowitall" but it is commonly understood that we operate with a 400' ceiling. In model rocketry circles (which is monitored by the ATF for the larger +D engines) one needs to aquire a waiver for altitude activities. Still in all circumstances the full scale has right of way regardless of how low or what permission you have. There is a human on board the full scale. Think how bad your luck would be if they sucked your plane in and then crashed into you.
Old 04-11-2007, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

First off all ‘Full Scale’ aircraft have the right of way over a model.

Next, are the laws regarding Low flying AC. There are very specific rules governing this sort of activity – something about people getting upset when a plane falls on their house, sonic booms breaking windows and the noise causes their chickens to stop laying eggs etc. Every country has their own regulations – check them out and act accordingly.

As a general rule of thumb, Military AC training in Low Level activities are allowed to do so only in Military Training Areas – NOT over your house. (see above)

If you have a concern, try calling the local base and ask them to stop training over your house, try supplying photos of the AC complete with a date stamp – it will go a long way to proving your case as well as who was flying the AC.

As always, be polite and have proof. Things work better that way.
Old 04-11-2007, 10:41 AM
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Deadeye
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

His yard, his air. Call the AFB and complain. 150 feet is too low, and dangerous.
Old 04-11-2007, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

There is nothing wrong with flying at your house. But, full scale always have the right of way. Have you checked an aviation sectional to find out if you are in military or controlled airspace? That is where you should start. I would bet that the A-10 pilots never even saw your plane. The fact that they left when you landed is probably just a coincidence. If an A-10 cut right under your little glider, it would have at least been tossed around like no tomororrow or destroyed from all the tubulance. If they were on a practice flight over your property, then you are in the wrong. Any practice flights by the military are announced on a sectional. The particular hours of practice are announced on a full scale radio frequency. If full scale planes can't fly through their practice area, what makes you feel that you can fly your models in their practice area?

I was flying through the Ohio-Kentucky border in a Cessna 182 during a military practice mission. I was cleared to fly through at only 500 Ft. AGL, that should have kept me 2500 Ft below the F-16's above me. Appearently, one of them botched a maneuver, as I saw him about a mile in front of me screaming through the bottom of a maneuver at several hundred miles per hour. It scared the heck out of me. I was very happy when I was well clear of their area.

I am kind of shocked at the tone of your posts in this thread. I don't know how you could you even think that you have the right of way. You own the land, not the air. Check out the airspace regulations above you before you fly your models. If you down a military acft. with your model (even accidentaly), I gaurantee that you will face prison time... Ignorance of the laws is no excuse!
Old 04-11-2007, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?


ORIGINAL: Deadeye

His yard, his air. Call the AFB and complain. 150 feet is too low, and dangerous.
LOL ! Where on the deed to the property does it say that you own the air. YOU DON'T! If I owned a house near the end of a Runway at Cleveland Hopkins Airport and decided to fly my models their because it was my air, not theirs, how long do you think I would be a free man? THere is controlled airspace all over the country. It is up to us modelers to respect it, just as full scale must be cleared to fly through it.
Old 04-11-2007, 11:49 AM
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Deadeye
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Default RE: Whose air is it?


ORIGINAL: firstplaceaviator


ORIGINAL: Deadeye

His yard, his air. Call the AFB and complain. 150 feet is too low, and dangerous.
LOL ! Where on the deed to the property does it say that you own the air. YOU DON'T! If I owned a house near the end of a Runway at Cleveland Hopkins Airport and decided to fly my models their because it was my air, not theirs, how long do you think I would be a free man? THere is controlled airspace all over the country. It is up to us modelers to respect it, just as full scale must be cleared to fly through it.
He doesn't live at the end of a runway. What if people have (easily spooked) horses around there? Don't you think 150 feet is a little low for a JET POWERED AIRCRAFT to be flying around in? Especially in a residentual area? You don't have to be so duragatory in your response.
Old 04-11-2007, 12:05 PM
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MinnFlyer
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

I agree. Full-scale aircraft are forbidden to fly lower than 500ft AGL in a residential area
Old 04-11-2007, 12:19 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

Deadeye,
I am sorry for sounding durogatory.[] I didn't mean too. I will try to be more tactful


ORIGINAL: MinnFlyer

I agree. Full-scale aircraft are forbidden to fly lower than 500ft AGL in a residential area
Unless authorized under a special flight permit. We get them for photography missions all the time. It only takes a fax to the FSDO. They usually fax back the approval within an hour.
Old 04-11-2007, 12:36 PM
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Tall Paul
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

Full scale airplanes have real live people in them.
Our toys don't.
There is NEVER a situation where a toy has priority over life or death!
NEVER!
Old 04-11-2007, 12:42 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

Amen!

Mike
Old 04-11-2007, 01:11 PM
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vicman
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

Neither Montana or South Carolina would be considered "residential areas" with 20 acre yards. LOL
Old 04-11-2007, 01:12 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

If in fact the A-10's were flying in thier training area, then they do NOT have an altitude requirement. Permissions have already been granted, and there is nothing that you can do about it. HOWEVER, they are NOT allowed to fly directly over a house, and that he can call in and complain about. I will tell you though, this will not do anything, except make you feel better.
People with horse farms and such, are normally posted on "no Fly Zones" and are known to the pilots, normally located on the map in thier Flight Operations building.

In case you are wondering, I am a flight crew member in the military, and deal with this all the time, no fly zones, quiet hours, altitude requirements, and yes even complaints from people.

I think who has the right of way, has already been answered.

I do wish I had 20 acres to fly off of though, I am jealous.

Josh
Old 04-11-2007, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

There has been a few times I wondered what it'd be like if I could get my hands on an old SA3 or SA5 (just the radar station) and turn it on just as they pass overhead just to see their reaction to a SAM spike. I wonder what would happen if they were to suck something the size of an OS 1.20 into one of their fans.
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I can't believe I read that statement. Those people are out there every day putting there $ss on the line so we can have the right to do the things we do.
Old 04-11-2007, 02:04 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?


ORIGINAL: 191557

There has been a few times I wondered what it'd be like if I could get my hands on an old SA3 or SA5 (just the radar station) and turn it on just as they pass overhead just to see their reaction to a SAM spike. I wonder what would happen if they were to suck something the size of an OS 1.20 into one of their fans.
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I can't believe I read that statement. Those people are out there every day putting there $ss on the line so we can have the right to do the things we do.
No kidding,
Unbelievable statement.
Anyway, not to beat a dead horse. You DO NOT own the airspace above your property--no one does. Period. You may not even own what's under your property, unless you have written ownership to the minerals. You say 150 feet agl, which may or may not be correct. I find that we often underestimate (or over estimate, whichever way you see it) the exact altitude of things. Sometimes you may feel like your model is at 500 feet, when it may, in fact, be closer to 1000 feet. And, the A-10's could have easily been flying at 150 feet agl--they are plenty capable. That's what they are built for. How else would they practice low altitude ground support without going into low altitude flight?
I wish a few of them would fly over my house that low. Anytime--i wouldn't even call and complain!
Crap, in this day and age, they may have been checking out your model if they couldn't identify it on radar.......Maybe they were doing something they thought was making you safer.
I'm sure a OS 110 into one of their fans would tear it up. but it wouldn't bring that airplane down. Not even close. But You'd likely be in jail before they got back to the base.
Old 04-11-2007, 03:27 PM
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broke_n_bummin
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Default RE: Whose air is it?


ORIGINAL: Sherpa FE

If in fact the A-10's were flying in thier training area, then they do NOT have an altitude requirement. Permissions have already been granted, and there is nothing that you can do about it. HOWEVER, they are NOT allowed to fly directly over a house, and that he can call in and complain about. I will tell you though, this will not do anything, except make you feel better.
People with horse farms and such, are normally posted on "no Fly Zones" and are known to the pilots, normally located on the map in thier Flight Operations building.
This whole area out here is mostly farm area. There are turkey barns , horses, cows and chickens all througout this area. They DO fly directly overhead, and weather the sun is up or not makes no difference.
2Fast ... I wish you lived out here too... At least 3 nights a week just so you don't have to wonder what it's like not being able to sleep at night.
... And no ... there is nothing posted for the public about their practice dates. There is an airfield just down the road that has gliders ... they go through the same thing. I have called Shaw AFB, and all they would tell me is that all maneuvers are TBA.
... As for the SA3 ... CALM DOWN! I said just the radar. I would think it'd give a certain ammount of realism to the whole exercise.
Old 04-11-2007, 03:51 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

As for the SA3 ... CALM DOWN! I said just the radar. I would think it'd give a certain ammount of realism to the whole exercise.
That is a great idea! You should call the base and run it past them...

1/26/2007 - SHAW AIR FORCE BASE, S.C. -- Residents near Shaw Air Force Base may notice increased flying activity during the evening hours Jan. 29 through Feb. 1 due to a temporary increase in the number of flights after sunset.

These flights provide Shaw F-16 pilots with the opportunity to train with night vision equipment and practice tactics that are critical to survivability in combat.

For more information, call 20th Fighter Wing Public Affairs at (803) 895-2019.
Old 04-11-2007, 04:02 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

where has common sense gone these days?
Old 04-11-2007, 04:39 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

It's most likely his dad's 20 acres.
Old 04-11-2007, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

ORIGINAL: aerowoof

where has common sense gone these days?
You can't teach common sense. A guy either has it, or he doesn't.

You can take a pill to fix your weight problem. You can take a pill to fix your mental problems. You can get your eyes lasered to correct poor vision. You can get the hair on your back permanently removed with a laser. You can have your arm blown off in a war and get a prosthetic device.

But you can't fix..............................[sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=confused_smile.gif]
Old 04-11-2007, 06:44 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

"... As for the SA3 ... CALM DOWN! I said just the radar. I would think it'd give a certain ammount of realism to the whole exercise. "


I can't believe you don't see what is so wrong with that statement - especially in the world we live in today...

Dan
Old 04-11-2007, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Whose air is it?

Aww come on guys, let him fire up that radar! We wouldn't hear from him for a long time. I'm not sure but I think it even says somewhere in the AMA rules that full scale has the right of way, ALWAYS!!!!!! And I have lived right under the main approach path for our local airport and I never stopped looking up to see what was there. I don't mean to be rude , but you live near a military installation that features aircraft. I'm also betting that it was where it is before you were where you are. If you want to fly from your property without seeing these planes over your land I suggest you purchase property somewhere far from any fullscale military or civil airfields. If they really are flying lower than they are supposed to be then you need pics and then go to them and try to fix it there first. Wish I could afford 20 acres!!

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