Engine Tuning Help!
07-26-2004 | 03:43 PM
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From: South,
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Engine Tuning Help!
Ok so the Nova P5 is running great in my buggy with the 063 pipe. The motor gets up to about 230 after running it hard for awhile. The car does not die, the idle sounds fine but I am wondering if it is too lean or rich. After I stop the car (while motor is still running) It seems the motor is still revving very high, it takes a few sec's for it to come down to the slow idle sound. is this ok? Do I need to adjust idle or my low end adjustment
07-26-2004 | 03:47 PM
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From: reading, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
Your engines fine, maybe a little high on idle, but they always take a little while to lose momentum if you really want to slow it down just pull the brakes that ussually does the trick
07-26-2004 | 03:53 PM
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From: , FL
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
LOL @ MK999
e420x, If your reffering to when you bring your car in after running it hard for a while, that it still idles high for a few seconds, that is okay. ideally it should idle high for about 4-7 seconds once brought in. Than it should settle. You could richen the bottom end up a bit, but you dont need to. Another good thing to do is, get the motor up to operating temperature. bring it in, Pinch the fuel line right at the HSN needle. Count how many seconds it takes for it to die. It should be about 5 seconds give or take a few. If it runs for longer than that rough area, than lean it. if less, richen it.
e420x, If your reffering to when you bring your car in after running it hard for a while, that it still idles high for a few seconds, that is okay. ideally it should idle high for about 4-7 seconds once brought in. Than it should settle. You could richen the bottom end up a bit, but you dont need to. Another good thing to do is, get the motor up to operating temperature. bring it in, Pinch the fuel line right at the HSN needle. Count how many seconds it takes for it to die. It should be about 5 seconds give or take a few. If it runs for longer than that rough area, than lean it. if less, richen it.
07-26-2004 | 04:03 PM
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From: reading, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
tuning your engine from how long it takes to die when you pinch the fuel line is (maybe not) so innaccurate you may as well just turn the needles about every five minutes but tuning should be done on sound smoke level performance and heat. if you LOL @ MK999 remark was at the brake pulling then the reason for this is it also pushes the throttle in a bit slowing down, however this is not neccessary and it idling for a few seconds is fine.
OK maybe this was going too far but so was your remark
OK maybe this was going too far but so was your remark
07-26-2004 | 04:29 PM
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From: reading, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
it's not bogus just only works for some people, depends on where you pinch the tube, how hard you pinch it how quickly you pinch it, the diameter of your fuel tube, how long your particular engine runs through fuel (all motors economy is different). The best way to adjust the LSN is to come from rich, so richen it up, and then lean it back again til it stops bogging down but don't confuse it with HSN rich as this will bog down if you increase throttle slowly whereas LSN won't. Example I pull the throttle fast it bogs and dies, I increase throttle slowly through the rev range, once it gets going it sings like a canary. LSN rich. I pull the throttle fast it dies at a certain point, pull the throttle slow it dies at the same point (roughly). HSN rich. Tuning these things can be difficult but once you 'know' your engine it's fairly easy. On my last car i had a single needle i knew once it pulled donuts it was too lean!! Of course that isn't accurate so i used heat smoke level etc. as well but it was a warning sign[8D]
07-26-2004 | 04:38 PM
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From: Tucson,
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RE: Engine Tuning Help!
The best way to adjust the LSN is to come from rich, so richen it up, and then lean it back again til it stops bogging down
07-26-2004 | 05:06 PM
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From: , FL
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
The Pinch test is accurate enough. As if you were to read my post I said to pinch the fuel line at the HSN needle. So there is no variables involved there as to where the line is pinched. Fuel tubing diameter does NOT come into play here. This lets you know how much fuel is in the engine at the moment. Its just as accurate as every other method of tuning out there.
BTW I laughed at you earlier because the cars momentum and hitting the brakes has NOTHING to do with how high the engine idles when it comes in after being driven hard. unless your linkages arent set properly, then thats a whole different story.
We Are talking about a Nova P5, which I have a bunch of. So your ill-informed argument about every motors fuel economy being different is null and void as well. However I do use this method with all my different types of motors. And it works fine.
Honestly thats three times in the passed few days you are making yourself look like an idiot with your MIS-Information- my Advice- GO AWAY, And come back with the RIGHT INFO, Then post!
Edit: Only post if you have something to contribute. Lets not bash on other members and don''t use foul lagnuage.
BTW I laughed at you earlier because the cars momentum and hitting the brakes has NOTHING to do with how high the engine idles when it comes in after being driven hard. unless your linkages arent set properly, then thats a whole different story.
We Are talking about a Nova P5, which I have a bunch of. So your ill-informed argument about every motors fuel economy being different is null and void as well. However I do use this method with all my different types of motors. And it works fine.
Honestly thats three times in the passed few days you are making yourself look like an idiot with your MIS-Information- my Advice- GO AWAY, And come back with the RIGHT INFO, Then post!
Edit: Only post if you have something to contribute. Lets not bash on other members and don''t use foul lagnuage.
07-26-2004 | 05:08 PM
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From: , FL
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
BTW, can you send me one of those Hyper 21's that will out torque any of my Nova- based Motors? Ill pay you good money for it! LOL!!!!!!!!
I want one of your "True Taiwanese Torquers" !!!!!! ROFLMAO!
I want one of your "True Taiwanese Torquers" !!!!!! ROFLMAO!
07-26-2004 | 05:12 PM
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From: , FL
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
As accurate if not moreso than any other method. This will let you know how much fuel is in the motor when there is no feed. that way if it dies right away, you know its too lean. If it runs for a while its wayy too rich. If it runs for about 5-7 seconds once pinched fully, engine speeds up and dies clean your fine. if it stutters or sounds like it wants to die but doesnt, its too rich.
07-26-2004 | 11:09 PM
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From: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
If your engine is idling high then dropping down to Idle once you've brought it in, I would look at the linkage as it sounds like they are not set up right. No it's not normal to do that.
A hyper 21 8 port pro will out torque any nova .21 BTW.
A hyper 21 8 port pro will out torque any nova .21 BTW.
07-26-2004 | 11:30 PM
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From: , FL
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
Grahama, Please! Hyper 21 8 Port Pro? We dont have those here. We have the 4 Port, 8 Port and 8 Port race. Is the race what your talking about? Because if so, please you should know better than that. No Way! Maybe some of the RB Econo 3 Ports or similar it might out torque but thats it. The 8 ports have a great mid range-top end. But NO Bottom End, and a failry short life expectancy as well and shotty quality control and cheaply executed parts and fit n' finish.
07-27-2004 | 12:05 AM
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From: , FL
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
But don't get me wrong, with the right type of track, especially those Euro tracks and for the money its a great bang for your buck engine. But for U.S. tracks we have the OS RG to fill that spot.
07-27-2004 | 04:07 AM
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From: reading, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
Just for you an engine tuning guide (Not that you need just to show it has no mention of the pinch test), built by the pro's at ofna. You did not say you had the same engine as him, in which case the pinch test would work, but ideally an engine should be tuned on the other factors that i mentioned earlier
I did not the call the hyper 21 a taiwanese torquer, a called it a true bottom ender i.e it is tuned for bottom end torque not high speed it may not be able to beat engines that cost twice as much but never the less is does have one hell of a lot of bottom end so maybe you need to get your information straight. I meant the engine momentum, i.e movement of the piston.
Can i also remind that although this forum is not very strictly controlled they still don't appreciate public slander
And the hyper 21 8 Port pro (or race so you don't confused) is a very competant Pro's engine and is frequently right up there with piccos nova based engines and RB's
Engine Tuning Tips
The hardest part of 1/8 scale racing is fine-tuning the engine. You need to learn this on your own. Spend some time, even an entire practice day, developing this skill. Always remember, it never hurts to have the fuel mixture too rich, but never, NEVER let the mixture get too lean.
Basic tuning procedure is as follows:
1 - set the engine’s idle speed up slightly higher than normal
2 - start tuning your engine with the settings too rich
3 - always tune top end first
4 - tune bottom end next
5 - reset idle speed
You tune the engine by measuring the engine’s temperature, and making the required adjustments to make the temperature correct. There are two ways to measure the engine’s temperature:
a) Temperature gauge method: Get the engine up to running temperature, bring the car into the pits and immediately take a temperature reading. Place the temperature gauge directly over the engine, pointed at the glow plug, and take a reading. It’s easier to do if you have a second person to take the readings for you.
b) Spit method: Get the engine up to running temperature, then pull in as quickly as possible and put some spit on the engine’s cylinder head (quickly, so as to not burn your finger). The saliva should just slowly boil off (2 to 3 seconds). It should NOT dance around as if it were on a hot griddle, nor should it lay there and steam. In short, if your spittle will sizzle, it's too hot.
If the engine is too rich, the engine temperature will be colder than desired (and vice versa). If the engine is too lean, the engine temperature will be hotter than desired. Go out on the track with the top end rich. If you have got the mixture set right, there will be heavy smoke from the engine on the straightaway. Run four or five full laps to get the engine up to running temperature before touching the carb. Bring the car in, and take a temperature reading. Start leaning out the top end by turning the adjusting screw only 1/12 turn at a time (picture a clock’s 12 even spaces). Take your time doing the adjusting - don’t be in a hurry. It may take a while. Your goal will be to get the car to just "punch clean" when you come onto the straightaway, which is what it will do when the mixture is set properly. For 1/8 scale cars, you will have the correct mixture when the temperature is about 200 degrees. The 1/10 scale cars run a little hotter, maybe around 250 degrees.
Once you think you have the top end set, run 3 or 4 laps, then stop the car close to you on the track and let it idle for 5 seconds, then "push off". It should have slightly loaded up, but still accelerate quickly. If the engine died before the 5 seconds, check the following:
If the engine seemed to load up and slowly stop, it was probably too rich.
If the engine’s idle speed increased before it stopped, it was probably too lean.
Always run a few laps before testing bottom end and idle. Ron likes his car to idle clean for 5 seconds, but by 6 or 7 seconds his engine loads up when he punches off (heavy smoke with a slight stumble). At this point you may have to re-adjust the engine’s idle speed. If the idle speed is too high, the clutch will not release completely and you will lose "snap" off the corners. If the idle speed is too low, the engine may stall on the starting line, or at the end of the straightaway when you let off the throttle.
Things to Remember:
1 - Never try to tune a cold engine!
2 - Adjust top end first
3 - Always tune from rich to lean. If in doubt, richen it up first.
Your glow plug wire should stay bright like chrome. If it turns dull, or gray, the engine was probably too lean on top or bottom, or both. Note: wire may also distort or be burned up if it’s too lean. If glow wire is still shiny like new, but distorted, you may have to add a 0.004" shim or use a lower percentage of nitro.
Over 99% of all engine complaints are usually related to the tuning of the engine or clutch.
The hardest part of 1/8 scale racing is fine-tuning the engine. You need to learn this on your own. Spend some time, even an entire practice day, developing this skill. Always remember, it never hurts to have the fuel mixture too rich, but never, NEVER let the mixture get too lean.
Basic tuning procedure is as follows:
1 - set the engine’s idle speed up slightly higher than normal
2 - start tuning your engine with the settings too rich
3 - always tune top end first
4 - tune bottom end next
5 - reset idle speed
You tune the engine by measuring the engine’s temperature, and making the required adjustments to make the temperature correct. There are two ways to measure the engine’s temperature:
a) Temperature gauge method: Get the engine up to running temperature, bring the car into the pits and immediately take a temperature reading. Place the temperature gauge directly over the engine, pointed at the glow plug, and take a reading. It’s easier to do if you have a second person to take the readings for you.
b) Spit method: Get the engine up to running temperature, then pull in as quickly as possible and put some spit on the engine’s cylinder head (quickly, so as to not burn your finger). The saliva should just slowly boil off (2 to 3 seconds). It should NOT dance around as if it were on a hot griddle, nor should it lay there and steam. In short, if your spittle will sizzle, it's too hot.
If the engine is too rich, the engine temperature will be colder than desired (and vice versa). If the engine is too lean, the engine temperature will be hotter than desired. Go out on the track with the top end rich. If you have got the mixture set right, there will be heavy smoke from the engine on the straightaway. Run four or five full laps to get the engine up to running temperature before touching the carb. Bring the car in, and take a temperature reading. Start leaning out the top end by turning the adjusting screw only 1/12 turn at a time (picture a clock’s 12 even spaces). Take your time doing the adjusting - don’t be in a hurry. It may take a while. Your goal will be to get the car to just "punch clean" when you come onto the straightaway, which is what it will do when the mixture is set properly. For 1/8 scale cars, you will have the correct mixture when the temperature is about 200 degrees. The 1/10 scale cars run a little hotter, maybe around 250 degrees.
Once you think you have the top end set, run 3 or 4 laps, then stop the car close to you on the track and let it idle for 5 seconds, then "push off". It should have slightly loaded up, but still accelerate quickly. If the engine died before the 5 seconds, check the following:
If the engine seemed to load up and slowly stop, it was probably too rich.
If the engine’s idle speed increased before it stopped, it was probably too lean.
Always run a few laps before testing bottom end and idle. Ron likes his car to idle clean for 5 seconds, but by 6 or 7 seconds his engine loads up when he punches off (heavy smoke with a slight stumble). At this point you may have to re-adjust the engine’s idle speed. If the idle speed is too high, the clutch will not release completely and you will lose "snap" off the corners. If the idle speed is too low, the engine may stall on the starting line, or at the end of the straightaway when you let off the throttle.
Things to Remember:
1 - Never try to tune a cold engine!
2 - Adjust top end first
3 - Always tune from rich to lean. If in doubt, richen it up first.
Your glow plug wire should stay bright like chrome. If it turns dull, or gray, the engine was probably too lean on top or bottom, or both. Note: wire may also distort or be burned up if it’s too lean. If glow wire is still shiny like new, but distorted, you may have to add a 0.004" shim or use a lower percentage of nitro.
Over 99% of all engine complaints are usually related to the tuning of the engine or clutch.
Can i also remind that although this forum is not very strictly controlled they still don't appreciate public slander
And the hyper 21 8 Port pro (or race so you don't confused) is a very competant Pro's engine and is frequently right up there with piccos nova based engines and RB's
07-27-2004 | 06:00 AM
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From: reading, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
Look, i've had time to think about this and on subjects like engine tuning it is down to personal preferance, IMHO the best way to tune an engine is on sound, smoke, heat and performance if you want to tune by pinching fuel lines and counting then fine if it works for you, use it, Stalefish you just need to try different methods to see what works for you, your engine and what you find easiest and most reliable.
Skyline350GT you can call me all the names under the sun i really couldn't care less, in your opinion I may have been wrong but i don't think that gives you the right to start throwing names around. Forums are all about discussing your opinions with other people sometimes there may be a right and wrong answer to questions like will xxxxx fit xxxxx buggy, in that case if i say yes it will fit and it won't then maybe you can correct me but I don't think at that point you can start throwing names about. Fine i may have made some mistakes recently I apologise once again for being Human we all make mistakes and maybe i did come across strong when i said it was innacurate, I apologise for that, maybe it isn't as inaccurate as i thought it was but once again it comes down to personal preferance and opinions and if you can't accept not everybody has the same opinion as you then maybe it is you that is in the wrong, I can accept that you tune your engine in a different way and you are protecting your opinion but i think you've gone a bit over the top about it and before you post another long bashing session towards me, think about it. If we can't at least be civil towards each other maybe we should agree to keep out of each others way and avoid confrontation.
Skyline350GT you can call me all the names under the sun i really couldn't care less, in your opinion I may have been wrong but i don't think that gives you the right to start throwing names around. Forums are all about discussing your opinions with other people sometimes there may be a right and wrong answer to questions like will xxxxx fit xxxxx buggy, in that case if i say yes it will fit and it won't then maybe you can correct me but I don't think at that point you can start throwing names about. Fine i may have made some mistakes recently I apologise once again for being Human we all make mistakes and maybe i did come across strong when i said it was innacurate, I apologise for that, maybe it isn't as inaccurate as i thought it was but once again it comes down to personal preferance and opinions and if you can't accept not everybody has the same opinion as you then maybe it is you that is in the wrong, I can accept that you tune your engine in a different way and you are protecting your opinion but i think you've gone a bit over the top about it and before you post another long bashing session towards me, think about it. If we can't at least be civil towards each other maybe we should agree to keep out of each others way and avoid confrontation.
07-27-2004 | 08:50 AM
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From: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
Pinching the fuel line only tests the Low end setting and your aiming for 6 seconds, but it all depends on which engine you have as some carbs hold more fuel between the nipple and needle.
The 8P pro is an 8P race with a boost chamber. As seen on the Hyper 7 Pro UK (intermidiate kit). As the top kit has the Picco P7.
The 8P pro is an 8P race with a boost chamber. As seen on the Hyper 7 Pro UK (intermidiate kit). As the top kit has the Picco P7.
07-27-2004 | 12:22 PM
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From: New Freedom, PA
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
Please, no bashing other members and please stick to the subject. If you don't agree with this, then reread RCU Guidelines:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Plea...1613797/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Plea...1613797/tm.htm
07-27-2004 | 01:37 PM
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From: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
ORIGINAL: SKYLINE350GT
BTW, can you send me one of those Hyper 21's that will out torque any of my Nova- based Motors? Ill pay you good money for it! LOL!!!!!!!!
I want one of your "True Taiwanese Torquers" !!!!!! ROFLMAO!
BTW, can you send me one of those Hyper 21's that will out torque any of my Nova- based Motors? Ill pay you good money for it! LOL!!!!!!!!
I want one of your "True Taiwanese Torquers" !!!!!! ROFLMAO!
07-27-2004 | 01:41 PM
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From: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Engine Tuning Help!
And btw I run Nova cranks in the repaired 8 port race I use for bashing. Dyno'd at 3.1Hp @ 33,120 RPM. On 25% Nitro, 216'F, 651ft asl, 21'C ot and about 5% Avtur in the mix.
