OS Vspec question.....here we go again
02-11-2007, 04:50 AM
#26
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 6,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
Adam I put your engines short life down to your break-in method, mine has done 15+ gallons on the original bearings, rod, liner, piston, crank ...... a slight mark on the inside of the backplate but nothing to complain at and power enough to still thrash a new RB. I really don't know why all these people are slaming these engines, any engine will die quickly if you treat it wrong. For me the V-Spec has been the best engine for reliability and grunt I've had yet. Even better than the old Black Magic.
02-11-2007, 06:17 AM
#27
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
mine was run in by ex UK Champ Justin Mackey & i ws there so i know it was done properly
it also went back to Jon Hazelwood another Champ to have the rear bearing changed after its first meeting (3 day indoor)
it finally crapped out after about 4 months with a really bad knock at tdc, just wouldn't keep running [:'(]
as mine was a modified one with the hardened crank it will hopefull just be a worn out rod, i suppose i should take it down & measure it
an RB or Novarossi would have lasted a LOT longer with the same use
it also went back to Jon Hazelwood another Champ to have the rear bearing changed after its first meeting (3 day indoor)
it finally crapped out after about 4 months with a really bad knock at tdc, just wouldn't keep running [:'(]
as mine was a modified one with the hardened crank it will hopefull just be a worn out rod, i suppose i should take it down & measure it
an RB or Novarossi would have lasted a LOT longer with the same use
02-11-2007, 06:35 AM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
so how many tanks did you guys run it in on before taking it out an hammering it? I reckon 99% of engine failures is people becoming impatient and thrashing their engines before they give it a good run in. But yeah ultimately its impossible to determine how long an engine will last. I too find it mystifying hearing so many complaints about this engine. Everyone I have spoken to has raved about them and like Da smak, one of my friends is well over the 12 gallon mark and the engine still hauls arse.
02-11-2007, 06:46 AM
#29
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
probably about 15 tanks easy then ran it rich on practice day of that indoor meeting, gradually leaned for power over next days heats etc
i've personally never seen one last that long, everyone who runs them accepts the fact that their engine wont last & they just buy them cheap from Hong Kong
i've personally never seen one last that long, everyone who runs them accepts the fact that their engine wont last & they just buy them cheap from Hong Kong
02-11-2007, 08:36 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nicosia, CYPRUS
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
I have new Vzr with 12tanks in it and it still gets stuck at TDC when i try to start it... and i always need a screwdriver on the flywheel to get it back down...and this is after warming it up at 160F with a hairdryer.
I try running them in at 210-230 rich with covered head to keep it there...this way i think you need more than 20 tanks to fit right.
And i suppose rich settings after that and leaning a bit every tank.
I try running them in at 210-230 rich with covered head to keep it there...this way i think you need more than 20 tanks to fit right.
And i suppose rich settings after that and leaning a bit every tank.
02-11-2007, 09:54 AM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
interesting..hmm all I can think of is that perhaps they were run too rich. I know its a rule of thumb that rich is good but if its that little bit too rich it can be just as bad as running them too lean. If they are allowed to run too rich this can put tremendous strain on the conrod and this can also be a reason for a premature lifespan. But like I said before "how long is a piece of string?" In other words its really impossible to calculate the lifespan of any engine. The only other problem with these engines I have heard, right across the board, is that the first few batches had bearing issues. Certainly is a bit of an enigma this engine thats for sure!
02-11-2007, 09:57 AM
#32
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: CANTERBURY,
NH
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
I ran a v-spec for a year and a half, I ran over 10 gallons thru it and never had to do a thing. I took my time during break in and the motor never gave me a lick of troubble. What finally killed it was a hole in my air filter, DIRT= DEAD V-SPEC.
02-11-2007, 10:35 AM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Brandon, MS
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
mozzzy, one of the problems people have with the V-Spec is that it is very easy to run rich. The only short term problem is loaded up glo plugs. I woild encourage anyone that is not getting long life from a stock plug (and it still looks intact) to revisited the tune and lean it out a bit. With the hot plug these engines run, combined with the porting and timing, performace is still very good when rich.
I still hope DaSmak will share his break in procedures.
Ed M.
I still hope DaSmak will share his break in procedures.
Ed M.
02-11-2007, 10:56 AM
#35
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 6,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
My break in procedure is very well documented on this forum and all those that have follewed it to the letter have commented on how long their engines have lasted, though it does take patience to follow it through correctly, but the tuning part is so quick and simple that loads of noobs now do it that way.
02-12-2007, 12:13 AM
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
Hey Da Smak I stumbled up your breakin procedure the otherday. Not trying to start a flaming war but I was most supprised that you of all people would suggest tuning the LSN before the HSN?? That I thought was very odd coming from you. I'd have to strongly disagree with you there for it is impossible to achieve a correct tune because the LSN is directly affected when you go to tune the HSN. I'm not sure when you wrote it but I did also note that you also suggest idling for at least 6 tanks. Again I cannot agree with you on that point too. You simply cant get enough load and heat into the engine by letting idle on the box. The best way is to get it running straight on the ground. Anyway just an observation and as its been said before, everyone has their own theory and opinion on the subject. The only problem with your method is that 2 major factors you point out go completely against the normal procedure that virtually all pros/veterans recommend. The only thing is I can think of is that you have been in the biz for many many years and you come from the "old school" of thought. Just a thought anyway..
02-12-2007, 12:50 AM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Brandon, MS
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
Da Smak, forgot I had read your breakin stuff before the name change.
mozzzy_2000, many engines could benifit out of the box being leaned a little on the low end, saves the newby from cranking in on the high speed needle too much trying to get it to run good from the get go.
Ed M.
mozzzy_2000, many engines could benifit out of the box being leaned a little on the low end, saves the newby from cranking in on the high speed needle too much trying to get it to run good from the get go.
Ed M.
02-12-2007, 01:04 AM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
yes I realise that but to actually go further and tune the LSN before tunning the HSN, I think 99.99% of people would agree, is getting it wrong. anyway just an observation.
02-12-2007, 02:06 AM
#39
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
ORIGINAL: mozzzy_2000
Hey Da Smak I stumbled up your breakin procedure the otherday. Not trying to start a flaming war but I was most supprised that you of all people would suggest tuning the LSN before the HSN?? That I thought was very odd coming from you. I'd have to strongly disagree with you there for it is impossible to achieve a correct tune because the LSN is directly affected when you go to tune the HSN. I'm not sure when you wrote it but I did also note that you also suggest idling for at least 6 tanks. Again I cannot agree with you on that point too. You simply cant get enough load and heat into the engine by letting idle on the box. The best way is to get it running straight on the ground. Anyway just an observation and as its been said before, everyone has their own theory and opinion on the subject. The only problem with your method is that 2 major factors you point out go completely against the normal procedure that virtually all pros/veterans recommend. The only thing is I can think of is that you have been in the biz for many many years and you come from the "old school" of thought. Just a thought anyway..
Hey Da Smak I stumbled up your breakin procedure the otherday. Not trying to start a flaming war but I was most supprised that you of all people would suggest tuning the LSN before the HSN?? That I thought was very odd coming from you. I'd have to strongly disagree with you there for it is impossible to achieve a correct tune because the LSN is directly affected when you go to tune the HSN. I'm not sure when you wrote it but I did also note that you also suggest idling for at least 6 tanks. Again I cannot agree with you on that point too. You simply cant get enough load and heat into the engine by letting idle on the box. The best way is to get it running straight on the ground. Anyway just an observation and as its been said before, everyone has their own theory and opinion on the subject. The only problem with your method is that 2 major factors you point out go completely against the normal procedure that virtually all pros/veterans recommend. The only thing is I can think of is that you have been in the biz for many many years and you come from the "old school" of thought. Just a thought anyway..
we agree on that Mozzzy!
there have been numerous threads on here now saying HSN before LSN but Alex can't seem to accept that things are done that wy for a reason
i still can't believe he's giving out this BAD advice & even more unbelieveable is some people are (according to him) still taking it [:'(]
02-12-2007, 02:28 AM
#41
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 6,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
Yes, I now go by one name on the tinternet to make it easier to log into all my sites.
The explination of why I do LSN first is stated in the other thread and I'm not going to labour it here.
The explination of why I do LSN first is stated in the other thread and I'm not going to labour it here.
02-12-2007, 06:42 AM
#43
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fairfax ,
VA
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
Just to share...
Older v-spec main bearing are 10 balls and the newer batch comes with 9 balls which is suppose to last longer.
I don't know when the change was made but I suppose lesser but bigger balls will last longer.
Go to amains ,look at the vspecs mainbearing photo and count the balls, I counted 10, now, again at amains, go to
RB page and look at the C5 bearings, which is the same size, count the balls in the bearing, I counted 9.
I was told that, you can actually see the diffrence between new and old by looking at the heatsink, will check it out and fill you guys up when I ask my pal again, didn't remember it as I wasn't interested in the vspecs at that time.
Older v-spec main bearing are 10 balls and the newer batch comes with 9 balls which is suppose to last longer.
I don't know when the change was made but I suppose lesser but bigger balls will last longer.
Go to amains ,look at the vspecs mainbearing photo and count the balls, I counted 10, now, again at amains, go to
RB page and look at the C5 bearings, which is the same size, count the balls in the bearing, I counted 9.
I was told that, you can actually see the diffrence between new and old by looking at the heatsink, will check it out and fill you guys up when I ask my pal again, didn't remember it as I wasn't interested in the vspecs at that time.
02-12-2007, 12:58 PM
#44
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 6,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
ORIGINAL: sh0wtime
probably easier than being told how wrong it is again
probably easier than being told how wrong it is again
02-12-2007, 02:08 PM
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 738
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
I've read the break in procedure as well and disagree with it just like everyone else. But in saying that if "da smak" continues to get 10+ gallons out of v-specs and the rest of us don't i reckon alot of people will try it. me included.
I also think that da smak may have tuned a few engines in his time and that is probably why he can tune the lsn first, cause he knows where it needs to be. But i wouldn't tell a newbie to do it that way.
I also think that da smak may have tuned a few engines in his time and that is probably why he can tune the lsn first, cause he knows where it needs to be. But i wouldn't tell a newbie to do it that way.
02-12-2007, 02:16 PM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nicosia, CYPRUS
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
ORIGINAL: superlight
Just to share...
Older v-spec main bearing are 10 balls and the newer batch comes with 9 balls which is suppose to last longer.
I don't know when the change was made but I suppose lesser but bigger balls will last longer.
Go to amains ,look at the vspecs mainbearing photo and count the balls, I counted 10, now, again at amains, go to
RB page and look at the C5 bearings, which is the same size, count the balls in the bearing, I counted 9.
I was told that, you can actually see the diffrence between new and old by looking at the heatsink, will check it out and fill you guys up when I ask my pal again, didn't remember it as I wasn't interested in the vspecs at that time.
Just to share...
Older v-spec main bearing are 10 balls and the newer batch comes with 9 balls which is suppose to last longer.
I don't know when the change was made but I suppose lesser but bigger balls will last longer.
Go to amains ,look at the vspecs mainbearing photo and count the balls, I counted 10, now, again at amains, go to
RB page and look at the C5 bearings, which is the same size, count the balls in the bearing, I counted 9.
I was told that, you can actually see the diffrence between new and old by looking at the heatsink, will check it out and fill you guys up when I ask my pal again, didn't remember it as I wasn't interested in the vspecs at that time.
If you mean the older and newer v-spec then it's obvious that they differ mainly by just looking the head since one it's blue and the other is black with red writing.
As for the balls in the bearing it's not increasing by the number of balls.
There is a fixed size of the bearing but the number of balls may be different(some less -some more) depending on how close the balls are to each other.
I suppose more balls means better bearing since there are more of them to take the forces from the high revs and torque.
02-12-2007, 03:14 PM
#47
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 6,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
ORIGINAL: JJJEEEFFFFFF
I've read the break in procedure as well and disagree with it just like everyone else. But in saying that if "da smak" continues to get 10+ gallons out of v-specs and the rest of us don't i reckon alot of people will try it. me included.
I also think that da smak may have tuned a few engines in his time and that is probably why he can tune the lsn first, cause he knows where it needs to be. But i wouldn't tell a newbie to do it that way.
I've read the break in procedure as well and disagree with it just like everyone else. But in saying that if "da smak" continues to get 10+ gallons out of v-specs and the rest of us don't i reckon alot of people will try it. me included.
I also think that da smak may have tuned a few engines in his time and that is probably why he can tune the lsn first, cause he knows where it needs to be. But i wouldn't tell a newbie to do it that way.
Thanks, but it's not so much tuning the LSN first, but seting the LSN so that the engine wont load up and stall as you accelerate up to mid range. But it is normal that once I have set the LSN at the start I wont touch it again unless it's an RB as they like a thin low end seting.
02-12-2007, 04:06 PM
#48
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
if you set an RB "thin" on the low end it will just lean bog once warm [:'(]
i thought everyone knew that
looks like i'll have to say it again!
the LSN is directly affected by the setting of the HSN!
any further adjustments you make to the HSN will directly effect the mixture on the low end without even touching the needle!
FACT
i thought everyone knew that
looks like i'll have to say it again!
the LSN is directly affected by the setting of the HSN!
any further adjustments you make to the HSN will directly effect the mixture on the low end without even touching the needle!
FACT
02-12-2007, 05:01 PM
#49
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North of the, , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 6,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
Adam I don't care what you have to say on that subject and I am certainly not arrogant enough to say it's the only way, but you've never tried it and it shows, as if you had you would realise that it just works.
02-12-2007, 07:07 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 738
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: OS Vspec question.....here we go again
ORIGINAL: Da Smak
Thanks, but it's not so much tuning the LSN first, but seting the LSN so that the engine wont load up and stall as you accelerate up to mid range. But it is normal that once I have set the LSN at the start I wont touch it again unless it's an RB as they like a thin low end seting.
Thanks, but it's not so much tuning the LSN first, but seting the LSN so that the engine wont load up and stall as you accelerate up to mid range. But it is normal that once I have set the LSN at the start I wont touch it again unless it's an RB as they like a thin low end seting.
I don't think that spending lots of time idling on the starter is the way to go, but only time will prove me right or wrong on that one