GW

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Ok guys, need your input again. Of course I have my own ideas but who better to ask then the large RC community as a whole.

I need your tips/ideas etc for track building. I was thinking a clay surface but having never done anything but raced on it I need to know the plus and minus of such. How about good clean fill dirt? I read somewhere they added sugar to the mix? Help me out here! I have the space to create a world class venue but need solid input, well that and money, but I will work on the money soon enough. So hit me with it, what would you do with a facility? Is the AMB system the only way to go? Options?


Thanks in advance!

RCtruckRacer

Clay, IMO provides the best surface to race on. But it requires moisture so it's best suited for indoor use. Outdoors, in the sun, clay will bake if it gets dry. That would make it very difficult to make track changes. I should think that a good mix of clay & fill dirt will provide an optimal outdoor surface, and still allow you to easily change the layout. Check with your local parks department and find out if they use/used clay for any baseball/softball fields. But there isn't anything wrong with using what you have.

Yes, many facilities use sugar to treat a track - it helps hold the dirt together and can help starting a blue groove. Can't say I remember the ratio of water to sugar - you might try calling The Nitro Pit in Phoenix. They should be able to tell you (I just recently saw a photo from one of their recent track builds, there was a 100lb sack of sugar in the photo...).

AMB is the only system to use if you want to attract seasoned racers. We all have one or more PT's for for that system. And I know I would be VERY reluctant to buy something else.


Some personal gripes I have had from tracks I visited:

Drivers stand too close to the front lane. I was at one track where the front was a straight but, wasn't any more than 10 feet out from the stand. When your car came around the last corner, you had to lean out the drivers stand to see it. When the guy next you you leans over, they block your view - or yourself for the guy on the other side of you.

Too small a drivers stand. If you are going to have 12 person mains, make room for at least 15. Some guys are a bit over-reactive with their controllers, and some people just like to take up a lot of room. Either way, its much nicer if you aren't crowded. And put a roof on it! Shade is good!

Too difficult of obstacles. If you are going to put in something like a crossover, make sure ALL classes of vehicles can make it. It sucks racing 1/10 scale on a track where only the 1/8ths can make everything.

Track design makes marshaling difficult. Yeah, that long bridge that is 10 feet high is really cool, but if someone winds up wheels up on it, it takes forever for a marshall to reach the truck. Try to keep the design turn marshall friendly. Elevation change - especially radical changes - make for an exciting track. But that can also be dangerous for the marshalls. I was once at a track where there was a 15 foot elevation change and the down hill side saw a couple people hit by trucks that missed a big step down. Fun track to race, a nightmare to marshall that one spot.

Plan for RV's and travel trailers for large races. If you are going to have big races, plan on a space for them. Hook ups would be out of this world - most tracks want RV's to be self contained, if they allow them at all.

Oh, I'll think of more.

Barber420

My Feedback: (1)

Added sugar!!! They were probably talking about sugar SAND which is about the same consistency as sugar. I built a track in my sideyard this spring that we love. Now, it's no professional track, but it is a great track that everyone loves and enjoys running on. It had been a hay field for about, oh, FOREVER. Mowing it down and dragging it SUCKED. It was a ton of work to bring it back to dirt, but it is just dirt and works great. It's 100'X50' with four lanes varying from 6' to 8' in width. We built burmed corners, tabletops, doubles, and some EXTREME wood jumps on the back straight. Oh there is a whoop section too. What ended up happening was the grass grew back on the infield and kind of grows on the track except for where the fast lines are. It is very technical and was FREE! We physically dug up many, many, many wheel barrow loads of dirt and built everything by hand. I have to take back the free part. We built the wood jumps and landers, and a 6' tall, 8' long, 4' wide podium with railings, drink holders, and ashtrays. I think we spent about $200. If you are interested in seeing pictures I think I may be able to find some that were taken a while ago before it was finished to post. I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but I hope it helps.

Barber420

My Feedback: (1)

Never mind my answer. Sounds like you want a legit sanctioned track. Plus my way takes a couple months of long days and back breaking labor!

calvino

NO, Rob is right, he means SUGAR (the sweet stuff.... ) i know a track that uses log cabin maple syrup mixed with water, sprayed down on the track..... smelled AWFUL as an indoor track, but dang it must have given good grip (didn't race but whatever) I agree with Rob on the big elevation changes, i remember marshalling a 1/10 truck class race, and at the start of the race, someone flips on this MASSIVE tripple, (he is on the first landing, where everyone comes down) so i race out there to flip him, knowing i have a very short time to get in and out. I almost got hit in the stomach by a flying car, very stressfull [:'(]

Gex_61

Where in California are you? The Atwater near Los Angeles or the Atwater near San Francisco? Both are within driving distance for me if you are going to have a nice big event. Southern California is full of 1/8 tracks. You should check out this racing series and maybe contact some of the owners for help: http://www.jimmybabcock.com/ There are some great pictures of the tracks on this site as well.

I'm no dirt expert. There are several tracks in Southern California, and I find that none of them have similar racing surfaces. I like them all for all kinds of different reasons. IMO, you can't go too wrong with whatever you decide to use. Thunder Alley is the only one that has a lot of clay. They water the track for most of their events.

I personally don't like it when tracks add stuff to make the surface bluegroove. If it were me, I would just run it wet or dry. I raced on a track just recently that used something on the surface, and ran it dry all day. Look at what it did to a lot of the metal on my car (picture below). It looks like I took a trip down to the beach, lol. I'm not sure what they used but I've never seen this happen before. Also, here is a picture of what my local track did at their last big event (picture 2-5). Talk about bluegroove. I'm not sure what they used either; it was environmentally friendly though. I do like it when they use it for the dirt oval, but that's it. It's a tire killer.

A nice shade for the drivers stand is a must. I like Thunder Alley's (picture 6-7).

I like the AMB system. Just about everyone I know owns a personal transponder, although you can have handouts as well.

I dislike crossover jumps or multiple lanes. Just make the whole track one lane, and see who's fastest.

If you wanted to be really cool, make another drivers stand specifically for video, photographing, or for spectators as long as it doesn't get crowded; maybe devide it up. That would be world class. I saw they had that at the Farm II for the IFMAR Worlds. My local track has another drivers stand from the track they tore down. It's pretty cool.

calvino

i know in califorina we suffer from HORRIBLE clay problems, lots of cracked slabs, especally down here in so cal, great for tracks, bad for everything else. what the heck did they use on that track, its all grooved up!!! I thougt the 'groove' was suposed to be that high traction line only. Depending on your soil type (simple test take some soil, put it in a clean container, stir up and let sit for about 24 hours, if most of it is at the bottom with a fine layer of sand, your heavy clay soil, need some organic matter or sand). I know for our track it packs nice and hard, have yet to "hold a real mini race" on it yet, but it does work good. IMO a good racing surface is something hard packed that has consistent traction, wet is nice, but it takes time.... [&:]. I agree with shade on a drivers stand, nothing is worse than having the sun BEATING down on you forever. don't forget the "simple stuff" like, toilets, water, food...... Nice link Gex, i see freedom park raceway (its the closest to me)

slayerphonics

OK, at my track we have a clay surface outside, sugar is not added to the clay, its sprayed on the surface to help create a bluegroove, calcium is added to the clay to help hold it together. Making track changes is as simple as soaking the track down to soften the clay, i've been working on clay outdoors tracks for a few years.

We stop doing the sugar on the surface, just to much of a hassle and all the racers like the blown off wet method better, as do I

We blow off the surface of the track and wet it down

Here is our track in Daytona, I recently designed this layout, other members decided on jump placements



For fill dirt under the clay we just use any cheap dirt we can get,

If you get to much sand in your clay it won't pack right and when it rains on it the sand will separate from the clay

AMB is the best way.


("Too difficult of obstacles. If you are going to put in something like a crossover, make sure ALL classes of vehicles can make it. It sucks racing 1/10 scale on a track where only the 1/8ths can make everything.")


The opposite is true as well, make the track to easy and its just boring for 1/8 scale.

I think we found a great balance with this track layout, 1/8scales can go big and get the quads and triples and the 1/10 scales can go for doubles and triples,

Wisconsin Nitro

loamy soil, gypsum to hold moisture, and a bit of sand is the mix you need

GW

My Feedback: (2)

thanks guys for all the info, please share more if you have it.

To answer the location question, Atwater in on HWY 99 about 60 miles North for Fresno or a couple hours South East of the San Francisco area and about an hour and a half South of Sacramento.

I hope to have the powers that be bless this thing in the next few weeks and get the green light to more forward.

Thanks again!