Seek and Destroy

I just went to nomadio.net, and got pretty much nothing about anything.

mkincy

its a 4 channel 2.4 ghz radio system with a 100 hz refresh rate. it also has built in telemetry, wich tells you engine temp, battery voltage, rpm's, speed, and counts lap's all this info is displayed on the screen of the transmiter. also because its 2.4 ghz there are no crystals required. and you dont have to worrie about frequency clips.

mkincy

if you need to know more the user "nomadio sales" can sale you all about'em. PM him.

rsilvers

Thanks for pointing out that deal. The DX3 comes with two servos and two receivers for $249 but the telemetry display is extra.

The Nomadio has the telemetry display but $110 for a second transceiver and still no servos.

So the Nomadio is about $50 to $100 more if you match up equal systems. That is a lot better than when I thought you had to spend $450 on it.

I have no idea which is better but seems like the Spektrum is much more in the field.

Nomadio_Sales

http://www.nomadio.net/default.asp?ilevel1=2&iLevel2=38

the Sensors are for the Telem

rsilvers
We have 40 Memories
We are 100Hz Frame rate TWICE as fast
We have no analog to digital lag 30ms
We are 100mW output not 10mW
YES they kicked are arse in the market at first but we got a little somthing coming out soon that shifts the tide quite nicley.

Seek and Destroy

Does the Sensor work with analog servos now.

JRexA

I have used analog servos with my Nomadio Sensor since I got it about a year ago.

Never had any problems with that.

rsilvers

The faster update rate sounds significant. I did buy a Spektrum. I am willing to pay more for something that is better, but without first hand testing I had nothing to go on. If it becomes clear to me that the Nomadio is better I will change. I liked how the Spektrum also works as a module for existing radios and how it had more marketshare. I have a history of buying the better product which goes out of business. Like Replay, etc. I liked Beta better than VHS. I hope you guys get significant marketshare to bring some competition and rapid development. And it is not gonna be long before Futaba gets into this.

Are you saying Spektrum reads the wheel with an analog method, then converts it to digital, and that adds latency? If so, that does not worry me as they can just have the next radio have built in telemetry and digital encoders. I only have $50 into their DX3 radio ($250 minus the cost of the two receivers and two servos it comes with). If I have to upgrade the Sensor radio next year, I would lose about $180 (the lowest price of the system minus the cost of what other stuff it comes with). Once again, I am not cost sensitive if I am sure something is better -- but I have nothing to go on without experiencing them. I would like to range test them both, and see if I can perceive latency in either.

rsilvers

A few things:

1. The Nomadio website says 75mw. Is it 75 or 100?

2. Does the Nomadio's 100 HZ update contain unique positional data for each of the 100 updates per second becuse the data packet rate and the motion update rate might not be the same (likewise, my LCD computer monitor updates 100 times per second, but I might be playing a game which is only updating 50 times per second).

3. There is a DSSS concept called Processing Gain: The processing gain is a measure of immunity to noise. The more the band spread of the signals, the higher the gain. Spektrum set up their data rate to allow for an 18dB processing gain over the FHSS that Nomadio uses. That means a 10mw implementation may have more range than a Nomadio 75mw FHSS system (it could be equal to an 80mw FHSS system).

This is very technical but if you want to learn more, read this: http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm...te_number/1890

FHSS (Nomadio) is more immune to jamming (as in intentional jamming during a military operation) and the DSSS (Spektrum) has more range. DSSS require more expensive hardware to decode, and FHSS is easier to implement.

Nomadio_Sales

We can go to 125mW but we are now 100mW. The basic code on DSSS from Cypress is just that very basic not advanced as you think the use of entry level DSSS receivers / transmitters is how we are able broadcast to other brand DSSS receivers on the market simple as pie no extra expense and half the frame rate.

BTW the basic DSSS receivers on the market are also unshielded transmitters broadcasting 50 packets of data per second all zeros until you plug in the telem then the data goes live.

rsilvers

Question -- if the FCC allows 5 watts -- why not just use 1 watt or more? Is it overkill? It should make transmission in buildings and around other devices that much more reliable. Maybe a 100/1000mw switch on the radio? How much power are you using on your military products?

chickenfarmer3

anyone know how much the temp and voltage and whatever other sensors there are cost. and how much are extra rec., thinking of selling my xs3 to get one.

chickenfarmer3

never mind, just found it at rcbuggyshop. thanks nox

Nomadio_Sales

In the USA you could if you wanted to go to 5W on 2.4 GHz but no other radios would work thus making the band worthless at tracks.

rsilvers

So you must think 100mw is the place to be for FHSS for cars and something more for planes. Will you do a 4 watt 5.8Ghz aircraft system?

rsilvers

Saw this in a review:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=623

'Some readers may be thinking that the DX6 technology is just a re-hash of frequency hopping spread spectrum technology, which uses extremely fast channel hopping to avoid other systems (think about it, if everyone is using a hopping radio that changes channels every few milliseconds than nobody will be on the same channel for longer than a few milliseconds). Although channel hopping is a clever way to avoid “stepping on” other radio signals at the field, its prime disadvantage is transmission speed. Hopping systems have a slower feel, something that Spektrum™ eliminated with its DSM (“Direct Sequencing Spread Spectrum”), which promises (and delivers) a very “tight” feeling of control over the model at all times."

I am not sure there is truth to it. It needs to be investigated.

Nomadio_Sales

Funny how there are no hoppers out in aircraft yet you say they say they "feel slower" sort of shoots down your argument when what you say is countered by the fact no one has an Aircraft 2.6 GHz Hopper on the market. So how exactly do they "feel Slower"? [>:]

In surface radios we are converting people quickly who can feel the speed of Nomadio 100Hz FHDSS over 50Hz DSSS. Fact is now that we can talk to the other brands receiver’s people can see the difference true SEE the difference.

BTW there is no re-hash of FHDSS because the DX6 never had FHDSS. The DX6 it is a super way to get 2.4 GHz radios in aircraft. THE DX6 out first in the market is a FANTASTIC product for short range that will soon be eclipsed by even better FHDSS FULL RANGE FASTER RESPONSE technology.

Here is what you have on DSSS PARKED on one CH like any crystal based radio as hoppers land on your ch even for a short blast your receiver has to take time to reject the redundant data packets slowing your receiver response time, you are also at risk for lock out if enough bandwidth is taken by all sorts of 2.4 GHz traffic from R/C radios, blue tooth headsets, and other growing uses of 2.4 GHz, PERIOD. The more hoppers the SLOWER your DSSS receiver try it on a wireless LAN I can slow down a network to a crawl with our radio

Please stop the FHDSS bashing 100Hz is TWICE as fast as 50Hz, 100mW is much greater range then 10mW, plus we do not have ANALOG TO DIGITAL CONVERSION time to deal with that is 30ms no matter how you slice it, OKAY.

If DSSS was better we would have kept using it as our primary mode of transmission it is not like it is hard to do.

rsilvers

Thanks for being here and pointing out the differences.

I would like to see an independent latency and update rate test. You could do it with a digital sampling oscilloscope.

Spektrum has 18 dB processing gain so 10mw should be equal to 79mw FHSS. According to your post you should have more than 3x the linear range. My hypothesis is that it will have about 1.13x the range (and that when you used to have 75mw you had about 98% the range of the Spektrum).

Lend me one and I will use a 1200 meter laser rangefinder to do extensive range tests of both side by side and measure the RF power of each and report back the results.

Nomadio_Sales

Already done by the US Marines

rsilvers

Awsome. How can I get their report?

I predict it will be unavailable as is the nature of military tests.

If so, maybe you can answer if they just tested your system, or did they compare the range to the Spektrum?

What difference in range did you find in your own or Marine testing?

Nomadio_Sales

I will get what I can to you one thing we have never had lower range then the DSSS ever.

In my testing 1/2 mile on the surface rock solid much further then the DSSS and obstructed not line of sight. The DSSS fails if not line of sight very early range testing.

rsilvers

Thanks.

Meanwhile, I am going to test the latency between the encoder pot on the Spektrum and the receiver output using a digital storage oscilloscope. I will do the same with my JR 10X PCM helicopter radio. I will be curious if it is slower or faster than the 10X, and if slower -- how much slower.

Nomadio_Sales

PM Sent

JRexA

Nomadio_Sales: Are you going to post some of the range test data on support.nomadio.net?

I think lots of Nomadio Users will be interested in a copy of the test.

Nomadio_Sales

We are re-doing the entire web site now. I really want to see his data too