Our club has to stop flying open C class due to insurance regs. So no more .46's. What is the best and strongest (fastest) motor out there under .30? I use the os25fx on my smaller planes and like it alot. Maybe the Norvel .25 ?

Web searching around I find the Macs tuned pipe for the os25fx. Any thoughts ?

The hottest engines right now seem to be Webra .25's Use a Performance specialties Ultrathrust or Macs header with mousse can. There are 2 different suppliers of ready made Mousse can mufflers. These work great. With a master airscrew 9X4 expect upwards of 20000 rpm. With flight speeds in the 85-90mph zone.

This would be the hottest and probably the pricest: http://www.planethobby.com/product.p...2&cat=3&page=1..

Thrash,
I suspect a Jett .25 or .30, or FORA .29 would be the absolute fastest motors out of the box, but price, complexity, and consistency dictate something a little less exotic for combat. In combat you want to run at the same speeds of others - not be too fast or too slow.

As Don "Tenman" Howard (so named for getting 10 cuts in one round at the world's largest combat contest) pointed out the Webra .25 GT is currently the 800 lbs gorilla in combat. But, it takes someone who knows engines, fuels and how to set them up to get the most out of them.

A mousse can from www.flyingzhobbies.com for $28 with a Macs header included will add 2,000 rpms to an OS, Norvel, or others. I ran Norvels in Open B but can tell you from experience they are not for the faint hearted. For more information on getting Norvels set up right go to www.georgiacombat.com, click on Technology link in Glow section and read up on them.

If it were me, and I wanted to have a lot of fun without excess expense or hassle, I would buy the OS .25 FX put a Flying Z mousse can on it and go reliably cut some streamers.

Nope.. Im pretty sure the Novarossi turbo 7 port is THE baddest.. used in CL speed events around the country and will spin a prop in the mid 30k's. will put out close to 2.2hp purely stock and closer to 3hp when tweaked right at close to 37,000 rpm when the prop unloads with the right pipe. As you stated though, probably terrible in RC Combat but would be fun to watch...

Thrash,
Once upon a time I had a twin DeHavilland Hornet with two Cyclon PC-4s on it. These are FAI/CL combat motors - not the fastest .15s as AKM, Fora, and others are faster, but they are plenty fast enough. They turn about 32,000 rpms at peak. They weigh four ounces each. The plane was way too fast.

At the Dixie Nats year before last Lee Liddle, 2004 National Champion, had a Messerschmidt ME-410 Hornisse with twin AKMs. It was at least 15 mph faster than anything in the air at the same time. We estimated it was running 110 mph. It could have gone much faster if he had props pitched for all out speed but he had it set for sustained speed in turns.

At the Paris, Texas Contest this year, Mike Willcox, former World Champion CL Combat flier put up a 72" span Falcon Flying Wing in Open B powered by an old Nelson .15 - it was undoubtedly the fastest plane at the event.

The Rossi may truly outperform them because it is a .21, not a size commonly used in airplanes, but then again the prop sizes necessary to fly the larger planes may give the upper hand to the .29 size engines like the FORA which is really a de-stroked US CL Combat .36.

Thrash who are u?
"Nope.. Im pretty sure the Novarossi turbo 7 port is THE baddest.. used in CL speed events around the country "


Probabaly the least supported engine "Novarossi turbo" in rc.!!!

Lou is right as is Ten Man. These two guys who own speed and power. Webra and the cyclone are by far the bad boys of combat as the flora.
Under .25 I say for the price get a webra gt .25 with a mac pipe and Kentucky mouse can. If you can 't find a source try Lou's web sight

http://www.georgiacombat.com/

I am sure you'll find it there.

Sounds like a cool ride !! Yea, the NOVArossi (dont confuse with Rossi, same guy, different era) is a real brute and the .21 is the cream of the crop for model engines period .. It would be pointless on the end of a RC Combat ship as you pointed out already, wrong dynamics..

Speaking of a fast .15.. I think Lou would agree with me this guy OWNS speed and power in this video for model aircraft, and with none of the engines mentioned yet.. http://www.flyrc.org.uk/video/worldrec/worldrecreal.rm

Hi Thrash,
The Rossi is a fine engine. But it doesn't have a following among the particpants of the model airplane speed events where money is no object but maximum performance is.

The Russian engines for .15 size, Henry Nelson's for .40 size, the French hand made diesels for FAI Team Race, the Russian, and Chinese for 1/2A free flight, etc are run by the world champions. No one who competes seriously in model airplane racing events uses Rossis. Not that they are not fine engines, they are simply not the best engines of their displacement classes in airplanes. In RC Cars they are one of the more important engines, but that's another story.

Believe it or not the most expensive two cycle model airplane engines are in the FAI Team Race event. They start at about $700 and go up to over $2,000 for the ones that wait three years to get. If you go to Goran Olsson's web site in Sweden he has a number of links to really exotic racing engines

Lou,

No doubt the Russians make fast engines and Henry Nelson is just amazing.. Im not bashing anyone here..

BTW, its NOVArossi not just Rossi... Two completely different engines.. These are NOT the same old Rossi's but are a different manufacture just to clarify.. In C/L Speed, David Smith is using the Novarossi very competitively against the rest. Did you view the video?? That was an Irvine setting the record.. Have you ever messed with this one Lou?? http://www.planethobby.com/product.p...7&cat=3&page=1 Maybe it would be worthy on the end of a Combat ship?? Not Hugely expensive, Ive never fooled with it but may be worth a look?

For ease of operation etc. looks like the os25fx with the Flying Z mousse can / header combo may be the way I go. Any thoughts ?

StDun,
I don't think you can go wrong with the OS .25FX and mousse can. You will also be right at the top in performance and ease of use.

Thrash,
No I haven't run that engine. Thank you for the link. It doesn't indicate what prop is used to generate the 28,500 rpms in the specs. If it is the prop that you would fly the plane with that would be pretty good. I would bet that it is a prop that allows the engine to hit max rpms. It also does not indicate where the power or "torque" range is on the engine which is a necessary spec to select the prop and rpm range.

Don't get me wrong, I believe it is a good engine. A .15 Fora, AKM, Cyclon, etc will make 32-35,000 rpm on 10% fuel, running a 6.5X3.5 fiberglass prop. They have to hit these high rpm ranges to develop their power. The CS, Shuriken, or Cyclon 1/2 As will develop over 50,000 rpm on sub 4" props. I have seen Larry Driscoll's 1/2 A RC Combat plane exceed 120mph and fly faster than I could follow it.

None of the engines noted above are really good for RC Combat. You should have three engines and planes to go to a contest and they shouldn't be finicky, delicate, and must have repeatable performance under all conditions. The high performance racing engines are expensive, can be cantankerous and are not really user friendly.

As far as beautiful racing engines go, I've always had a soft spot for a Dooling .29 rear intake. Ever seen one?

If you're looking to fly RC combat in the US, then it pays to look at what the guys at the top are doing. It's no accident.

You don't see anyone using NovaRossi's.

Lou and Tenman are right on.

Cost matters. Espeically in an event where engines sometimes get filled with dirt or have carbs sheared off or worse. Breaking engines isn't common (or none of us would be able to afford this for long), but it can and does happen.

You're welcome to come fly with whatever engine you want, and show us that it's a competitive engine.

Right now, the Webra is king of the pile. The OS is probably the best engine for someone new to combat since it's certainly competitive and it's the easiest engine to set up and get good power from in the air.

If you want to be competitive, you can't afford to have an engine that won't run consistantly, that's for sure.

Also, a lot of those engines designed to turn really small props at high RPM need bladder fuel systems. I personally think bladders are too much trouble, and not worth the learning curve and frustration that everyone seems to go through before getting good with them. If you've been flying CL for years, and already know bladders, then it's not a problem. Or, if you live in an area where there are guys running bladders who can help you out, then that will shorten the learning curve. Otherwise, keeping it simple is the way to go.

The OS and the Webra are competitive on a basic clunk tank, doing things exactly the way guys learn how to do their engines on their basic trainers.

Thrash, so, how many rounds of RC combat have you put on your NovaRossi engines in the last couple of years? How many do you have? and I don't think I know you from Nats or other big events, or am I mistaken?

Yes, that is correct... Aircraft size, weight, aerodynamics and type of flying will dictate engine size/power and prop thrust requirements. The Novarossi was just a suggestion as I have worked with the engines before(RC Planes, Cars, Boats) and find them to be VERY high quality pieces that run really well.. The Novarossi ( is more expensive and as I said already may not be suitable for Combat but may be worth a try if ya got the bucks.. Who knows, maybe it WOULD work??

None.. how many have you flown with the Novarossi??

Kirk: Take it easy there, I just made a suggestion about something out of the norm here and thought maybe it would stir a thought process? Yes, im a former CL Combat/speed guy, RC Nitro car guy, RC Pylon guy, RC Boat guy.. Also flown a bit of Scale RC Combat until most all combat died in my area... [&o] No SSC or Open here either.. Just saying that the NR may be worth trying?? Im sure you guys are very experienced and if im right, pretty competitive?? Maybe trying something new to gain an edge would be worth a try to someone willing to part with the money??

Todd

Lou,

Yes, Im familiar with the Dooling! did you know they used to be the engines to beat in early Tether car racing(the .61 was massive back in the day) back in the late 50's.. Just for those of you that are not familiar with Tether cars: http://www.amrca.com/ Is that your Dooling??

Todd,

I'm not saying don't experiment.

However, it's usually best to experiment when you have something to compare it to, some background. The thread started with someone who doesn't have expereince with combat in this size range asking for an engine to try out. So it makes sense to point out what engines are being used by most of the top pilots.

I wouldn't recommend an unknown, untested-in-this-use engine to someone who's getting in to this size comnbat.

And I wouldn't recommend any engine that I haven't seen run in several contests, and shown that it can be competitive.

Since no one that I've heard of has run a NovaRossi, it would seem irresponsible at least to recommend that engine for someone getting in to combat. And since you haven't run them in combat either, don't you think it's irresponsible to recommend one to someone with out even disclaiming that you've never done what you're suggesting they do? That's my point.

Maybe it's a fine engine, maybe it's not. it's an unknown. Nothing wrong with "unknown", but it should be clearly stated.

The Webra, OS, Norvel, Irvine, Magnum and others are all "known" quantities, and many differnet guys have put many hours on those engines in combat. I have personal experience with some, and I've flown against, and seen some others on that list, so there's some basis for consideration.

If you could say that you'd actually run the NovaRossi in some contests, then I'd really like to hear about it, since I'm always curious. But I won't suggest an engine that hasn't been proven when someone asks "what engine should I buy".

Thrash,
No, I wish it was my Dooling. My Dad still has one with that beautiful pointed spinner. I knew Doolings were used in tether cars but it has been almost 40 years since I last saw one run with a McCoy .60 in it.

Some of the engines I wish I still owned or ever owned:

- McCoy .35 RedHead
- Aero .35 with cylinder parallel to shaft
- OS .30 Wankel
- Any Multi-Cylinder except the inlines
- Holland Hornet .049
- TeeDee .010
- McCoy .60 Racing
- Any Team Race Diesel with the shutoff, exhaust primer, and tank built in
- Super Tigre G-21 .35

The list is almost endless

Speed in combat might be a necessary evil in AMA RC rule book combat, the way the rules have been developed, but I think the best quality combat, by far is SLOW RC combat. MY son and I average over 1200 combat minutes every summer [each], along with a couple hundred more minutes worth of streamer chasing with friends, and we usually can make it through a season on 3 planes each. We fly nothing but .15 and under combat at 50 mph or less. More combat time, less time building and repairing. Leave the high speed jousting matches for the rich guys with lots of time and money to burn, I've done it, it is thrilling, but isn't any more fun than the slow stuff.

Sorry guys, been gone a while. Thanks for all of your input. OS25fx with the mousse can is it. Don't have time to re-invent the wheel. Thank you again, Stephen.

Good Choice,

Another angle not mentioned is that HP /RPM's come at a fuel usage cost as well. I ran Jett 30, 25, they will not make 5 minute rounds on 6 ounces. 8 is needed.

The Wbra GT just barely makes it if you sandbag the start clock, and it gets a little dicey running this motor that close to a lean fuel run on stock clunk tank.

The OS 25 makes the 5 minutes no problem.