STANG KILLA SS

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hello all
10+ years ago i was BIG into the touring car racing scene. bought one of the RS4 Pros(the origonal) the second they hit the market. well i got into airplanes, and rock crawlers, but now have some friends getting into drifting. i still have my Pro i the attic and would like to make it a drifter. i have a few questions, any help would be appreciated.

#1. besides the plastic PVC tires, what store bought drift tires are yall haveing good luck with?

#2. my friends were telling me about the overdriven rear wheels/countersteer mod there doing on the cyclone S. is this possible with my RS4 pro? if so what parts are needed?

#3. my pro has a 1 way front pulley, will this hurt drifting?

#4. what do i need to do to the suspension? camber, toe etc.

#5. any other good (big) forums for drifting?

any help would be great!
Cory

STANG KILLA SS

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well this thing has been in the attic over at my parents house for like 12 or 13 years


i was big into the touring car racing back then. man all the memories, this thing has seen alot of races...




also dug around and found 5 brand new bodies i painted, never even been drilled for body posts


i also dug threw all my race tires and pulled out the 3 hardest sets, they probly wont work but im gonna give them a try. the set on the far right will be my best bet, they seem the hardest, and have a weird curved tread surface that should make for a smaller contact patch.

STANG KILLA SS

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well i stayed up till nearly 1 last night tearing this thing down and researching what parts it had stock for the overdrive/countersteer mod.



stock it has 15T pulleys for front and rear and a 54T 4mm rear belt

this morning i blew $100 bucks and ordered some parts.

R40 pulley set (18T-23T) that ill attempt to overdrive the rear. not sure they will fit probly need some lathed tubes cause im sure the larger nitro R40 has a larger shaft.
14T pulley from a MT to use to underdrive the front a hair.
drift tires
wheels
58T 4mm belt, for the rear larger pulley, from gen 2 RS4
60T 5.5mm belt, from a nitro RS4 allitle wide but could work for the bigger rear pulley.

bjonaiti

Nice cars man!!!

studysession

I have that same car. I have it all apart and been trying to get it back together.

missleboy15

hi i was wondering what is the best drift car. an electric or nitro car. what brand of car and what style. thank you

fallaci

missleboy15 - try not to hijack someone elses posts - best to write a new one. And there is not a straight and simple answer to your question - try to look up the forums - anyway go electric.

STANG KILLA SS

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well parts came in so i went to work


problem #1, i was expecting this one, the R40 pulleys are too big for the shaft.


so i took an old pulley that had this little barrel sticking out(one molded piece), put it on the shaft and chucked it up into the drill. using it like a lathe i turned it down with a flat file until it fit the inner diameter of the R40 23T pulley


then using a xacto saw i cut the nub off and seperated the two


then slide it into the new pulley, and walla


after playing with spacers and dis/re-assembling 100 times for a few hours i got it mocked up. 14T front pulley was a breeze, new longer rear belt shown.


but after all that the rear belt hits the motor because of the larger pulley. even if i went to a HUGE spur and droped the motor all the way to the bottom of the adjustment slots (at which point the motor is hanging nearly a 1/4" below the bottom of the chassis ) the belt still hits. ill either have to find a brushless motor under 30mm diameter that still has a 540 bolt pattern. or go to a smaller rear pulley

STANG KILLA SS

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well problem solved...sort of ...maybe....

simply went to a smaller motor, i pulled the power system out of one of the ducted fans in my MIG-29.
its an ARC 2837 2 turn. 3750kv. 28mm diameter as apposed to the 36mm 540 that was in there. it has a 3.2mm shaft so car pinions fit right on. now the question is, will it be powerful enough....?
for drifting im guessing it will be ( not much load or amp draw). if its not enough on 7.2V ill just jump to 3S.
of course the smaller motor bolt pattern doesnt line up but thats an easy fix with some new slots.
the smaller lighter motor also will help the rear motor chassis not be so tail heavy.



belts clear the motor, will get even better once i make tensioners


i also ordered:
-96T spur and 26T pinion for a 48P conversion.
-traxxas 32T rear diff pulley, this will also help with motor/belt clearance. enough to clear a 540? who knows. of course will over drive the rears more as well. i may order a TA04 32T diff pulley as well to see which one would be the easyist to use.


now i just need to track down a 56T belt (even a 55T or 57T) for the new rear pulley, not sure if one even exists....

STANG KILLA SS

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well i think my CS moding has come to an unfortunate end.

i already have the rear 23T and Front 14T pulleys (23 may have to come out if i cant get rid of the rear belt hitting the motor.)

and i ordered a 32T diff pulley to overdrive the rear more....well last night im looking threw the cars manual, and ill be damn if the stock diffs pulley arent 32T so no over driving the rear more
and with no room to go to a larger diff pulley up front i cant underdrive the front wheels. so im just stuck will what i can do with the center pulleys

to get more CS ill have to pursue doing it with f/r grip. weather it be difference in tire widths, compounds or angles (contact patch)

a bit bummed.

STANG KILLA SS

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well i got the chassis all re-assembled and took some body on shots

studysession

Looks good - Just a personal thing of mine when I look at RC pictures is the body posts are to long and should be cut down.

Other than that - AWSOME PAINT JOB!!!!@
Clean lines and looks great!

STANG KILLA SS

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yeah this is just a practice/starter body, the real body ill use hidden mounts, no body posts at all.
i actually painted this body over a decade ago[sm=eek.gif] drill some holes, added some stickers and mounted her up.

STANG KILLA SS

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shes alive! i got sick of waiting on the wheels (backorder till mid dec everywhere) so i dug threw my bin and found these old pajero 1.9s and mounted the tires up.

first i installed the little brushless system, got it all hooked up, it would arm, give the cell count then go quiet like it should. but when you gave it gas it just beeped. tried a second esc. same thing after two days of that and manual reading, i gave up.

i remembered i had a 7T puller on loan from travis. its size is about half way between the small brushless and the 540. got it all bolted up. and went out for the first test!

it was wildly uncontrollable, spining out everywhere, just looping itself. driving staight was nearly impossible. the rear tires were just trying to pass the car too much. and ive got a Very mild CS mod, i only did center pulleys, i didnt do any diff pulleys. so i cant imagine what it would have been like had i done that. also noticed with the puller motor (only 1800kv) it was far from fast. not a whole lot of wheel speed. you could easily brisk walk/ jog as fast as it was. dissapointed after a pack of trying i went inside.

i removed all the CS stuff. went back to the 15T stock rear center pulley, and reasembled, this of course allowed the 540 to go back in. i put a stock 27T in it and went down 6 teeth on the pinion.


i went out side and retryed. INSTANTLY WAY better! i could control it no problem i had two spots marked in the street about 20' apart and could do figure 8s no problem. it was MUCH improved. had a blast. then near the end of the pack i moved to the drive way and started doing figure 8s around the driver side tires on the jeep. definatly harder but doable.

gonna take alot of practice for sure. and some tweaking too. i did notice the front one way seemed to be making things worse. it works great in racing, but without grip or brakes all it did was create massive off throttle understeer. so i need to find a regular stationary pulley for the front (center)

here you can see the new wheels and tires, as well as my ghetto homemade tensioner , angle aluminum, a 4-40 screw and some spacers, works well and runs really free.



with the body on, these wheeels/tires seem to fill out the wheel wells alot better.


jeep drifting!

SIRCC

looks like my ta-04

STANG KILLA SS

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got 4 packages in today! it was like an early christmas!

not as much as it looks like, the bodies i plan to do drift replica paint jobs and sell.


i got these on the 'bay, i liked the disks cause there all CNC, and have left and right hand side grooves. and have the vent channel machined on the edge like a real rotor, and the muffler i liked cause it was metal and the whole muffler.


LP29 wheels, and 29 front, 32 rear tires. i had to put the 32 tires on 29 rims because my RS4 is wider in the rear than the front, and the 29wheels are 3mm, and the 32 wheels are 6mm and i couldnt stand the extra width. the rear snap on ring hides the "overhang" great you cant even tell. dont care for the chrome, wish they had black.


working on new body (drying)


i had to add some 1/16" hex spacers to get the wide rears to clear the shocks though. could be fixed by just moving the lower shock mounts in a hole too.

cbr6fs

Some work ahead of you there, take plenty of pics [sm=thumbs_up.gif]


Not sure i understand correctly on the wheels.
Are you saying you fitted 32mm tyres on 29mm wheels?


Do you mean 26mm?
As i've never heard of 29mm tyres or wheels.

If so i can't see who your possibly going to get a good bead seal like that.
The tyres just going to keep coming off the rim.

Also if you look at the tyres in your second to last pic, you'll also see that the tyre top is not straight, it's more obvious on the left than the right, but this is going to cause unpredictable handling.


If it's not going to be driven and it's just for show then it's ok.
But if it's going to be driven then function has to take precedent over form.




Just use some wheels for show and buy some the correct width for go [sm=thumbs_up.gif]


Even better just buy 26mm wheels and tyres as these are available pretty much in any offset you could dream of, from 0mm to 14mm.



Careful on those brake discs, no idea if they're aluminium, alloy, steel or plastic, but be careful with the weight as this is rotating weight so it's a lot more important than any other type of weight on the car.
With rotating weight you have to start it and stop it every time you accelerate and de-accelerate.

If they're plastic then it's a very good job because they look like heavy steel [sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

Lastly,
I would strongly advise spending some time tidying up the wiring on the car before starting the new shells.
It's great the car looking good when it's sat on a shelf, but there's nothing worse than seeing a plate of spaghetti when the shells removed.



In your pic here the reciever needs sticking down and you need to lengthen the Esc to motor wire.
The Esc to reciever wire needs to go under the belt, likewise the servo wire.

The Esc side of the deans connector also looks like it's in bad condition.
I'd resolder the connection and fit longer heat shrink insulators.


That a DIY bumper?
Good job if so.



Cheers
Mark

STANG KILLA SS

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yes they are HPI new LP (low profile) series wheels and tires. available in 29mm, 32mm and 35mm widths.....they are also larger in diameter (both wheel and tire) than standard 26mm wheels......

the tires arent coming off, they are plastic and snap on. and in person are very true. flash and angle may make them look allitle off. trust me, im an engineer i dont do anything half ass. perfectionist would be an understatement lol.

i wanted the wider tires for more side bite, faster drifts, and mostly to aid in the countersteer setup. you cannot do this with 26mm tires, there all teh same width. this isnt my first rodeo ive been doing RCs for nearly 2 decades. i also bought (as seen in the pic) some 26mm stuff as well. i like options and finding what works best for my setup and driving style.

the discs are aluminum and not a big deal. being a 1:1 racer (drag and road course) im more than familiar with the effects of rotating mass and enertia. theres not much slaming on the brakes and gas like grip racing. more of a gentle feathering of the throttle. hell ive got the brakes disabled completely in the radio. they are VERY light. ive got a set of plastic ones as well.

the reviever is stuck on with double sided tape and been holding on just fine, thanks. and yes the wiring job is over a decade old and could use redoing. i plan on switching to brushless so its just temporary and will work and has worked just fine for now.

yes bumper is DIY done in late 90s when i was racing touring car series. just a pool noodle cut, shaped and sanded. worked very well preventing the dreaded cracking right above the front wheel well in front end hits. got a nasty crease in the top sitting in the attic all those years. i assume a body shoved against it in the box.

thanks for all your "help" mark.......

cbr6fs

No problem.

I had no idea that HPI did wheels and tyres in 29mm, thanks for that [sm=thumbs_up.gif]
You should still use the correct size wheel and tyre combo though, there'no advantage running like that other than looks.

For faster drifts you should try the HPI Super Drifts (HPI #4402) they offer a great compromise between speed and drifts, in large open areas like a car park for example they are a lot more fun than the likes of T-Drifts.

My advice though would be to get some football training cones and mark out a rought course then use the T-Drifts.
It's a lot more challenging and will improve your driving more as these are the tyre of tyres that are used in the vast vast majority of competition.

Rotating mass and inertia are still important no matter what the full scale or to scale.
To be honest though if they are aluminium then they're probably not going to offer any more negative impact to driving than say aluminium wheel hex hubs.
Any links please?


As i say a few hours spent tidying up the wiring gives you more reliability and makes thecar a damn site easier to work on, so i'd advise sticking that on the top of your "to do list".
Nothing worse than driving out to your face driving spot only to have the Esc wire come off the deans plug as soon as you plug the battery in. [sm=angry_smile.gif][sm=angry_smile.gif]

Keep up the good work and just shout up if you need anymore "help"


Cheers
Mark

STANG KILLA SS

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the wider tires should do more than looks. should help with some traction and less snap spin. plus the larger rears than fronts should help with the countersteer style drift setup.

i picked up a set of yokomo single ring tires (26mm). im hoping those will be the answer ive been looking for started mounting them last night. what a huge pain. should help with speed and control.

yeah i currently use tennis balls cut in half for cones (this is what we use at our rc rock crawler compititions) i set 3 balls out in the street and do a triple figure 8 setup. occationally mixxing it up to a oval to practice fast sweepers.

the rotors i got from ebay from RnR or something like that.

thanks, looking forward to trying the new goodies.
Cory

cbr6fs

Good idea on the tennis balls [sm=thumbs_up.gif][sm=thumbs_up.gif]

So you are over driving the rear wheels faster than the fronts then?

If that's the case then having larger tyres on the rear will give more grip.
More grip + over driven rear = really bad understeer.

The rear is going to be pushing the front, and as the front does not have as much grip as the rear this will give extremely bad understeer.

If anything you want more grip on the front so that the rears end up spinning rather than pushing the car.


We have to use those Yoko rings for the greek drift championship, i didn't think they were to bad to fit.
Have you tried the T-Drifts yet?
Now they are a ***** to fit [sm=cry_smile.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif]


Have you managed to take any video since the countersteer mod?

I'd be really interested in seeiong it in action.

leadfootdriver

Wow that brings back some memories! I havent seen a car like that in years when I was 5 my neighbor and his dad both had that car i remember driving that thing all the time and watching them race eachother thats so badass that someone still has this car and drives it to! Man that thing is a relic I cant believe it still works it looks like thats where the sprint 2 sports design was derived from

STANG KILLA SS

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thanks! i cant take credit for the idea though. the rock crawler guys have been doing it for years.

yes i am over driving the rears. however your theory is true for grip, not so much for drift. CS (countersteer) setups are about making the rear try to always pass the front of the car so that its sideways so you have to countersteer like a 2wd. otherwise most 4wd rc drift with the wheels staight for the most part. you can accomplish the CS setup two ways. running the rear wheels faster than the front so its always trying to pass itself, or do it with grip, more rear grip than front again will make the rear try to pass the front and allow the car to be more sideways and need countersteering. with the slick tires and having them always spinning this does not introduce understeer.

yeah i had the t-drifts. they were easy to mount. i got the yoko single rings mounted last night. finally got the system down after watching a youtube vid. used soap for lube and a small flat head screwdriver and got them mounted "fairly" easily. anxious to try them.

sorry havent taken any vid yet. still working on setup and practice. im running a VERY mild overdrive (1 tooth)so trying to get more CS with the grip method. looking forward to testing and results.

thanks!

STANG KILLA SS

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lol your making me feel old![]

leadfootdriver

Haha sorry didnt intend to but im kind of seeing a pattern in hpi's cars they just love to put those e-clips wherever they can[:@] thats the only thing i would change about them do you think finding a car like that one would be easy?