markhamregular

I know that a sim plane will not fly exactly like the real one, but I noticed that they tend to drop their noses much more in a sim during a turn.
I am learning to fly real RC models with an Avistar. In the sim. It does tend to drop a little bit on turns, but on the sim, it's much more.
In fact, all the planes in my sim do the same. I have tried to trim them and they do fly straight. But even on smooth turns half throttle, they want to go down real fast.
What could be the cause?

Thanks,

da Rock

It would certainly help more to know what sim you're using.

On the other hand, it might not be the sim. Dropping the nose in turns is one thing I work on with some of my students. It's a timing thing that depends on the model being used, it's speed and how the pilot moves the sticks.

If you pull elevator a bit sooner or a bit more the next time you come into that same turn at that same speed, you just might not see the model's nose drop. If you roll the model a bit less next time, you might not see it drop the nose. If the wind is gusting in the right direction.... if the wind is gusting in the wrong direction..... If you fly faster next time......

Lots of things matter. We often judge our model's speed by how loud the motor/prop sound. My sims don't sound anything like my models. That can cause us to fly our sim models at much different speeds than our real ones.

Lots of things can cause the difference you see.

markhamregular

I have the realflight 5.5
I use different models but I use the Avistar the most which is the model I have.
The Alpha 40 is the only sim that gives me a pattern very similar to a real model.
So you suggest that I put a little up elevator right BEFORE I initiate the turn?

I also notice how fast the sim planes come down as opposed to the real one who seems to float and land at a much slower speed.
It is true that I am not using any wind in my sim, but at the field the wind is usually very low (less than 5 miles).
Could 3 to 4 miles make sucj a big difference?

 

da Rock

An aileron/elevator turn is a balance between the two surfaces. If you roll before getting enough elevator in the mix, the nose very often will drop. Everything actually depends on the airplane of course. There are a number that will adversely yaw when rolled. They keep the nose up with their lousy design problem. But bottom line is, if your airplane drops it's nose going into a turn, your use of the elevator allowed it and can cure it.

Get some elevator in sooner and see. The best advice you'll get will come from your airplane.

As for wind.... it's not the wind but the gusts that affect turns. The airplane doesn't even know there is a steady wind, but slow models do react to gusts. A 4 mph wind won't matter to the plane, but a 4mph gust would if the plane is light or slow.

RealFlight has pretty good "wind" controls. It makes sense to practice with them on because sooner or later you're going to see wind at your field.

rhall999

Hello Harryangus, how is your Avistar wokring out for you? We had discussed it a bit in the thread about positive incidence.

As for the simulator question here, I have Realflight 4.5 myself, mostly for keeping the thumbs in shape during our long, cold, northern Canada winters. I have found the same as you have, that most of the models drop the nosea lot more than real life, and for the most part must be landed pretty quick. Even though I have been flying real R/C for over 15 years, it took a bit of getting used to. After doing some monkeying around in the "edit aircraft" section, I have managed to get a lot of my favorites to fly the way I would set up a real one of the same airplane. The biggest problem I have found is that 90% of the airplanes in realflight are "set up" overweight, and very nose heavy. This causes you to have to use a lot of trim at low speed to get the nose up, and also the nose dropping too much in turns. The other neat thing to play with is the incidence angles of the wing and stab. You can really edit a whole lot of parameters in realflight, for each individual aircraft, and therferore you can get them to fly exactly like the real ones. There is a Spacewalker in RF 4.5, but it flies more like an overpowered sport plane than a nice slow "sunday flier" that the spaewalker really is. So, I lightened it, reduced the control throws, reduced the engine size, increased the prop diameter, and put a slightly higher lifting airfoil on it. Now, it flies pretty much the same as a nice, light 1/4 scale sig spacewalker.

Give it a try, go into the "edit" settings with the avistar and you can caerfully play with settings until it flies almostjust like your real one. Do keep in mind though what da Rock mentioned, that the simulator airplane will never be quite the same. There will always be some diferences in how the airplanes fly compared to real life.

markhamregular

RHall,

Thanks for asking about the Avistar. I wished I had started with an advanced trainer and not that flat bottom high dyhedral PT40.
I also took the service of an instructor. In 2 hours, I learned more not just about flying, but engine, planes etc.
It's worth it to spend a little money with an instructor instead of crashing planes.
I learned to fly straight and trim my plane while flying it.
My next 2-hour class will be on landing and I hope the last 2-hour class will be my last so I can fly without a buddy.
The Avistar flew beautifully. Not much trimming was needed. And it makes all kind of aerobatics.
It's good to learn using a plane that fly like most planes but still have a slow landing speed to help beginners.

If I had to give advice to beginners, I would have only 2:
Get an advance trainer like the Avistar
Get a good instructor.

Wish someone would have told me before and save me a lot of money and frustration.

Can't wait to land alone!!!!

rhall999

Glad it's working out for you!! It always makesit more fun when you have success. I still prefer a good basic trainer over the advanced ones to start out withmyself, but there is a lot out there that would be better than the unfortunate experiences you had with you first one. But, I'm sure that even though your first airplane didn't pan out, I bet the experience still helped out with your Avistar now,plus the time spent of the flight simulator is a huge bonus when it comes time to fly a real model. And, as you mentioned, getting agood instructor can make allthe difference.

If I can take this thread a bit more off topic () I would like to send a bit more advice your way. Practice your landings on the sim as much as possible. Also, ask your instructor if he can talk you through some "missed approaches" before actually landing. Basically, all that is, is you set up your approach to land, and then about 15-20 feet up, you smoothly apply full power and go around for another try. The next one you do, bring it a bit lower, say 10 feet, and the next one a bit lower yet. What this does, is get you comfortable with setting up the approach, and comfortable with the low altitudes, without the added stress of actually putting it on the ground. I have done this with everyone I have taught to fly, and I find it works super. What I usually do, is get them doing the missed approaches, getting lower and lower, until they are actually just startung into the flare before they go around. Then, without telling them what is up, the next time I will carefully talk them right into a landing, and usuall the airplane is rolling to a stop when they realize that they have just done there first landing. After that, they realize that they have done it once, and the "first landing" jitters are behind them and away they go. Solo happens shortly thereafter. Of course, I did this with one guy, then he practiced another 10 or solandings with my help and I sent him to go for his forst solo. Wouldn't you know it, there I am, sitting down about 20ft away when he takes off for his forst solo, and the engine quits on climbout only 15 or so feet up!!! Boy did I run to help him out of that!!!

Anyhow, back on topic, use the sim as much as you can, and if you don't feel like trying to edit the aircraft, just get used to the nose dropping for now. Congratulations on your success so far, and best of luck with your landings, and solo!! I know you will do fine.