Can anyone help me with MS FS 2004 ILS landings?

Whats the best plane to practice ILS a cessna or 737 etc?

How do I identify an ILS freq in a nearby airport I am planning to land? If I tune in with my radio , should I use Nav1 or Nav 2 ?

Basically , I JUST CANT LEARN ILS myself , if you did - How did you do it? Thru MSFS 04 help?? If you did you re a genius!

THANKS in Advance....

Oh boy where to begin, this would take a while

2004 has ILS tutoring doesn't it? It's got to be in one of the many instruction guides/manual/tutorials.

Best bet is to grab an instrument training flight book. MSFS is no different then real plane.

I personally like the Mooney and King Air for ILS approaches.

Why don't you zip on down to the Brandywine airport off Paoli Pike and ask for a intro flight. I would suggest you start with VFR and VOR approaches then work up to instruments. Unless of course you're already there.

One of the hardest parts of my flight training was intercepting DME Arc's ...

The Instrument Landing System is only part of the equation. You have to know approach plates, how to use them, and all that goes with it (final approach fix, minimum decision heights, markers, standard instrument departure, etc.). The reason I mention approach plates is you asked how do you know the frequency of the ILS (see the sample approach plate in the attached image (hope the attach works !)).

If all you are doing is ILS then all the advise I can give is don't chase the needles (I bet you do ) ! Make small adjustments ! If you don't then you will "fly through the needles" and your localizer path with be a squiggly line (if you charted it). Same with the glideslope needle except it is a little easier in that if you set up power/pitch/trim correctly, the plane will take care of it.

Just remember, when any plane is configured for landing on an ILS, you are in "reverse order"....power for altitude control...pitch for airspeed control. In other words, if your low on the glideslope, don't pitch up ! Add power. If your high, reduce power.

As my CFII used to tell me "a bad approach makes for a bad landing". I took my instument ticket checkride in a Mooney M20 .

CJ

Thanks Guys!

Thanks for the approach plate. From the figure , is the ILS freq 110.3 Mhz then? Or is it Hz/KHz etc?!!
If that is the case , Do I tune my Nav1 radio to that 110.3? Do I have to synch up anything else to an approach angle in degrees...
Like the ILS/IGUM 063degrees in the plate?

Funny thing is I am not successful even tuning my radio (nav1 for Eg.) Thing does not even display freq numbers!

I am good with flying all planes , auto piloting etc...even manual landings , except I will aim for the runway and land perfectly on a nearby river I do not chase needles Iam pretty good with that too....Just the landing with ILS -TUNING THE FREQ is what I am trying to learn.I will try the mooney and will let you know....

I even tried many times with flight planner from harrisburg to Phila. (very short distance). Frustrated, I tried different options :
VFR, then IFR , then clicked the radio buttons: GPS, Low alt airways, High alt airways then 'VOR to VOR'. Since I did a lot of combinations I got confused and finally I heard the ATC guy saying something like or similar to :
" Reduce to 160knots , maintain 2000 ft ...then Track inbound ILS (or) localiser to runway 16R". I could not recreate it.

Does this mean I have a better chance learning to land with ILS using flight planner? If so what options should I choose in Flight planner? Obviously I think I need to choose Instrument Flight rules(IFR) right? Then should I choose :
GPS, Low alt airways, High alt airways OR 'VOR to VOR'?
Please let me know....

As for MSFS help/exercises , its always a preset scenario that starts with tutor saying"now try and intercept the needles"....Its not what I am after. What I am after is to learn the programming /instruments setting only.

THANKS A MILLION from a frustrated pilot!!!!
(maybe I need to drink a little like the real pilots , I may understand better right?)

Not sure if i fully get the question, but if i do...

In the Cessna, you can twist the knob, called an OBS, to the 63 degree heading, but this is optional as the instrument doesn't really care what the OBS says, its the same indication either way.

On the jumbos though, the OBS setting does matter (well, it really doesn't, but it makes interpretation easier to line up the indicator up down so you can tell your position).

Intercept at 30 degs or so, in a big plane shallow out your approach as you get closer, in a cessna its not a big deal, you can fly right through and correct quickly if needed. Use the GPS for help at first, you can see the ILS path and judge your angle.

This works with some planes but not all. Glideslope corrections in a jet must be made with pitch. Use pitch to correct for the glideslope error and anticipate the airspeed change with a slight change in power. This works on all aircraft.

For the localizer, I like to take a heading and see how the CDI behaves. If it moves, take a new heading (small correction) and see how that affects your course. If you start chasing the needles it will turn into an ugly approach.

I don't have MS2004 but if you have a slower airplane with an HSI that would be a good one to practice approaches with. One less instrument in the scan.

>approach plate. From the figure , is the ILS freq 110.3 Mhz then? Or is it Hz/KHz etc?!!
>If that is the case , Do I tune my Nav1 radio to that 110.3? Do I have to synch up anything else to an approach angle in degrees...
>Like the ILS/IGUM 063degrees in the plate?

Yes to 110.3 on Nav. This is where you have to have the "big picture" in what is happening during an approach. The approach plate basically says that a VOR/DME to the ILS is required (no stright in approaches unless cleared to do so). So you fly a VOR/DME approach and when you start coming up on 063 heading, you should also see the localizer start to "come alive" and start to center. You should also hear the outer-marker "barking" on the speaker. When you get to the last mark on the localizer dial, start a standard rate turn to the runway heading. If you didn't fly through the needles, the localizer should be centered. If you did fly through the needles, you will see the localizer go through center and start swinging out the other way. During all this, you will also notice that the glide-slope will be swinging and if you are at the correct altitude at the FAF (final approach fix) the localizer and glide-slope will be lined up like magic and centered. When this happens, you will feel really good !

One note that other pilots might relate to...when on the ramp and talking to Ground before release, I put my numbers in the radio stack and use that for reference during read back. A Navy P3 Orion pilot taught me that (one of my instructors) [8D].

>Funny thing is I am not successful even tuning my radio (nav1 for Eg.) Thing does not even display freq numbers!

I have flown some radio stacks that require the frequency to be tuned on the "unactive" side of the audio panel. Try tuning on that side and hit the "<-- -->" button to make the unactive become active. This may not be the case though as I am not familiar with the newer versions of MSFS. The version I have is 98 and I have not loaded it in years.

>GPS, Low alt airways, High alt airways OR 'VOR to VOR'?

Low altitude airways are below FL180 (18,000 ft MSL)...high altitude airways are above this. The plane you fly will dictate what you choose.

Flying instuments is rewarding but it takes some ground school to learn all that is involved.

Good luck to you !

CJ

Thanks All, I was able to find the ILS freq and flew using the GPS too...GPS is cooool! I did make it to the destination airport with a not so good landing....!

What is the "beep - beep - beep " sound I get now and then ? New airspace or something else?

Since I also use the F/D (which activates the pink needles), how can I tell when my ILS is being picked up....since the needles are moving right from the beginning?

From quote" to the 63 degree heading...", in a 737 do I enter this in course or heading ? Whats the difference between the two?
When and where Do I enter the angle /degree value found in the ILS ? Correct me if am wrong: this value is relative to where my plane is in the air right?

The beeps could be several things...

1) VOR's have an idenifier code (morse code, hence the beep) that is audible for positive identification
2) The Markers (outer, middle, inner) make a beep (not morse code though) as you pass over them on the ILS
3) NDB's can ident like #1 as well (though not all do I have found )

There are others as well but I bet one of these fits your scenario. If you look on sectional charts that depict VOR's, you will see the indentifier in the little box that has the morse code (dashes and dots). If you are tracking on a VOR radial, turn up the audio on the NAV side and you will hear the ident morse-code (as an example).

Gotta run but I will get to your other questions if no one else does later...sorry !

Flying is fun ! It's like knowing a secret no one else knows...

CJ

Again, don't have it in front of me, but the beeps are most likey the various ILS markers. They are positioned along the approach path and are used by the pilot to identify how far out from the runway they are. The OM, outer marker is blue and sounds like "long-long-long-long". The MM, middle marker is orange and sounds "Long-short-long-short", and the IM, inner marker which is white (which isn't used that much at all) is short-short-short, very rapid.

Regarding the setting, when you tune in an ILS freq, and providing you are within the approach signal area, the instrument will give you the exact same indication no matter what you have plugged in for a course. The key on an HSI, which is what the jumbos have, is to set the indicator to the runway heading. This way when you get lined up on the localizer the needle deflection will make sense to you.

In the cessna with a conventional VOR/ILS combo, the OBS setting makes no difference at all when flying an ILS other than just a reminder to you as to what the runway heading is.

Bryris,

Lakeland ! You are in FlightSafety country ! Seriously, I got type rated in a Cessna Grand Caravan for Lonestar Overnight back in 1992 at FlightSafety International in Lakeland...

And thank you for snagging those other questions ! My better half yelled when I was trying to answer (going Christmas shopping lol...errr ho ho ho).



CJ