rageman

There are many test labs that perform oil analysis of various oils as to performance versus specifications and constituent content % or PPM etc.

Does anyone know of a lab that can test fuel for % makeup?

rageman

I learned that there are contract fuel test labs. I sent inquiries to a few to see if they would determine % oil of a nitro methane model engine fuel. TBC

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

For you as an individual hobbiest I doubt you will find the cost attractive

rageman

You are so right. it was $200 at one and $300 at another. However the one lab scientist took pitty on me and suggested a method I could use myself. It was still complicated but got me thinking. So I devised my own method.

See attached picture. I filled a 50 ml Borosilicate (Pyrex TM) graduated cylinder ($10 on Amazon.com) with Odonnell 20% nitro Car Fuel at room temperature. I heated it over night (in a well ventilated garage) with a 150 watt spot lamp and reflective aluminum foil make shift oven. Nitro methane has a boiling point of 217F so it flashes off quick. The remaining oil measured at 7.25 to 7.5 ml at room temperature so the % oil in the fuel was from 14.5% to 15%. I can now add the necessary additional castor oil to give the 18% desired for boat fuel. Maybe 20% for engine break in.

The reason for all of this is that I can only get car fuel in my area and I need boat fuel but Odonnell refuses to say what the % oil was in their Car fuel so that I could adjust it to be suitable for my boat engine. Well [:'(] to Odonnell

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Rageman, good job. Now we know O'Donnell's secret. Hey everyone, look what we know?

wcmorrison

My Feedback: (2)

You should be able to ask for an Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). OSHA requires that they give you one - that is the law! Hiding behind a special mixture, proprietary receipe, etc. is not an excuse. If they do not cooperate, send a message to OSHA requesting assistance. The tree huggers will assist you in beating one out of them, especially if they sell the stuff across state lines (becomes a federal issue for sure). The big time fuel guys will always issue one to you.

Cheers,

Chip

rageman

They are only required by law to report in the MSDS the presence of anything in their product that is listed as hazardous and approximate quantity. Therefore they can still avoid disclosing the exact percent content if the item is hazardous and not mention anything that is not listed as hazardous. The nitro and methanol is probably on the hazard list but the oil may not be a listed hazardous item. A big enough loop hole to dodge that bullet.

balsaeater

Methanol hazardouz Nitro hazardouz???

Duh methanol =~62% and Nitro =~20% therefore I suspect oil is ~18%

or did I miss something

balsaeater

rageman

Where exactly did you come up with the 62% methanol value?

Sport_Pilot

MDDS sheets are only required for sell for commercial or industry use, not consumers. You won't find MSDS sheets for many products in the grocery store, unless they also sell in volume for industrial or commercial use.

balsaeater

62% is just an example could have been 65% or 70% whatever .
eg. model fuel equals methanol nitro and oil .If you know the values of methanol and nitro then QED. you know the oil content or x+y+z=100%

Balsaeater

rageman

Exactly. The basic premis for solving an equation is that there can only be one unknown. A single equation with two unknowns is unsolvable. Consequently your equation would need the exact % methanol and the exact % nitro to solve for the exact % oil. However only the % nitro is posted on Odonnell fuel. Consequently the % oil is not solvable because the % methane is unknown. A guess is worthless.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Rageman, you did get it down to one unknown . . . .

You knew what the Nitro was from the start as it was stated on the jug

You boiled away the nitro and methanol to find there was 14% oil

Subtract the oil and the nitro from the total and you have the methanol

rageman

Yes I know that. I was mearly disagreeing with post #10 where it was proposed that the oil content could be calculated since the exact % nitro and the exact % methane is known (without testing a sample)...somehow from the manufacturer(not true)?... from the MSDS sheet (not true)?...from other unknown source?

downunder

Rageman
I've done something similar except I used a medicine glass which, because it's tapered, expands out the graduations near the bottom so you can read them more accurately. Also I just left mine to sit so it took a few days to evaporate away. Actually I think I let it sit for about a week so your way is much faster .

rageman

Very interesting. I wish I had such a medicine glass. I did not know such existed.....no surprise since I am not a chemist. What fuel was it and what were your results?

I thought about letting it sit at ambient but was not sure how much water might be absorbed by the methanol (since it is so hydroscopic) that might distort the results so I went with the spot lamp to keep things hot.

downunder

A medicine glass is just one of those measuring cups that mum's use for the kid's cough syrup. Usually they're just plastic so I don't know how much heating they can withstand.

rageman

I wonder if they have those here.

What fuel was it you tested and what were your results?

controlliner

I assume you do know that MSDS states that Methanol is a carcinogen.[sm=crying.gif]

rageman

I guess I did not read the MSDS beyond[sm=72_72.gif] the "if you drink it you die" part.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Methanol is not a carcinogen
It is very poisonous though
http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm
CAS# 67-56-1: Not listed by ACGIH, IARC, NIOSH, NTP, or OSHA.

Lost Glider

[/quote] rageman
See attached picture. I filled a 50 ml Borosilicate (Pyrex TM) graduated cylinder ($10 on Amazon.com) with Odonnell 20% nitro Car Fuel at room temperature. I heated it over night (in a well ventilated garage) with a 150 watt spot lamp and reflective aluminum foil make shift oven. Nitro methane has a boiling point of 217F so it flashes off quick. The remaining oil measured at 7.25 to 7.5 ml at room temperature so the % oil in the fuel was from 14.5% to 15%. I can now add the necessary additional castor oil to give the 18% desired for boat fuel. Maybe 20% for engine break in.




I thought I had read somewhere that castor oil will separate from the other components when it gets to cold. So how about trying another test with your graduated cylinder? Fill your cylinder up and try to seal off the top, stick it in the freezer for a day or two and see what shows up on the bottom. I am curious to know if the castor oil will separate from synthetic oil.

Randy