First Fuelie is on the Way
10-24-2006, 12:04 PM
#51
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tokyo, , JAPAN
Posts: 1,885
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
Hey thanks a bunch for that...it was helpfull.
In terms of racing it...well, its all contemplation and planning. I still do not know yet, there are too many variables in the decision. I might just decide to bash with it somewhat and be happy with that...? I was going to get a 1/10th jet in all accounts but there is nothing that is available that I want so...the next best thing is on the ground and a big baja would just about do it.
What do you think about the suspension design and chassis flex interms of landings, corners and tortional twists in various situations if I had a sweet motor in it...?
yes my friends was stock, there was no modding at ll that I knew of anyway. But its fairly new and was practically just ran in - give or take about 4 or 7 tanks...?
In terms of racing it...well, its all contemplation and planning. I still do not know yet, there are too many variables in the decision. I might just decide to bash with it somewhat and be happy with that...? I was going to get a 1/10th jet in all accounts but there is nothing that is available that I want so...the next best thing is on the ground and a big baja would just about do it.
What do you think about the suspension design and chassis flex interms of landings, corners and tortional twists in various situations if I had a sweet motor in it...?
yes my friends was stock, there was no modding at ll that I knew of anyway. But its fairly new and was practically just ran in - give or take about 4 or 7 tanks...?
ORIGINAL: Timmahh
SIM2U, some info for you and a few questions. i ll assume ( hate that word ) your buds Baja was stock with the extension tube still on? sounds like it to me by your description. Pull the Extension off ( or get an XCAN on it ) and you ll see that stock 23 COME RIGHT INTO IT. i drove mine with the extension on for one gallon, then i removed it, did a small retune. differance, was with stock setup, barely get off the line and slow to go up in rpms. once i removed the extention and retuned, i was digging holes from a dead stop, and the spool up was Majorly better. have your buds try this with his baja, im sure you ll be pleasantly surprised. Originally the Baja was Spected with a 27cc motor. no real reason as anyone can tell why they went with the 23. probably got a killer price on them from CY that was too hard to pass up.
my neighbors ( 2 brothers ) both have the baja, One has the ESP Zen 260. the other will have ( soon ) the ESP 30.5 ESP motor. I m going for either the 27 raced ported kit, 28.5 race ported kit, or the ESP 30.5 with the 1mm stroker crank ( effetively makeing it a 28.5 1mm stroked ), OR a GP29 CY and have it ESPd. decisions desicions. on our track, the ESP 260 has much more speed out of the hole, and in the long run. but it, STRICTLY BECUASE OF LOSS OF TRACTION DUE TO MAJOR WHEEL SPIN due to the EXTRA TORQUE< and driver ability) only edges past the stocker baha. on the flat, it smokes the stock. gotta get better traction.
for a Serious Racer, i would go with a ported 23 or 26. start with the GP model motor ( thicker cylinder plateing for more precise porting ability), . I seriously beleive anything more would be WAY to much as you ll get so much more torque, the wheelspin would seriously inpare handling. and on a track at race time, its all about handling and control. both that are severly compromised due to the excess torque created by the bigger engines. besides, on how many tracks can you wot it and hold to the end( only the drag races can this happen on)
we re all bashers here, so the perfect race set up baja isnt our concern, but if i were to contemplate serious racing, i would stick wiht the 23cc or 26 CY or Zen, and have it ported by a reputable porter ( ESP< ODDIE< TS> and others) and then have a tuned pipe built for it. no off the shelf pipe. if your seriously raceing, HAVE THE PIPE MADE!!!!!!!.
hth Timmahh
SIM2U, some info for you and a few questions. i ll assume ( hate that word ) your buds Baja was stock with the extension tube still on? sounds like it to me by your description. Pull the Extension off ( or get an XCAN on it ) and you ll see that stock 23 COME RIGHT INTO IT. i drove mine with the extension on for one gallon, then i removed it, did a small retune. differance, was with stock setup, barely get off the line and slow to go up in rpms. once i removed the extention and retuned, i was digging holes from a dead stop, and the spool up was Majorly better. have your buds try this with his baja, im sure you ll be pleasantly surprised. Originally the Baja was Spected with a 27cc motor. no real reason as anyone can tell why they went with the 23. probably got a killer price on them from CY that was too hard to pass up.
my neighbors ( 2 brothers ) both have the baja, One has the ESP Zen 260. the other will have ( soon ) the ESP 30.5 ESP motor. I m going for either the 27 raced ported kit, 28.5 race ported kit, or the ESP 30.5 with the 1mm stroker crank ( effetively makeing it a 28.5 1mm stroked ), OR a GP29 CY and have it ESPd. decisions desicions. on our track, the ESP 260 has much more speed out of the hole, and in the long run. but it, STRICTLY BECUASE OF LOSS OF TRACTION DUE TO MAJOR WHEEL SPIN due to the EXTRA TORQUE< and driver ability) only edges past the stocker baha. on the flat, it smokes the stock. gotta get better traction.
for a Serious Racer, i would go with a ported 23 or 26. start with the GP model motor ( thicker cylinder plateing for more precise porting ability), . I seriously beleive anything more would be WAY to much as you ll get so much more torque, the wheelspin would seriously inpare handling. and on a track at race time, its all about handling and control. both that are severly compromised due to the excess torque created by the bigger engines. besides, on how many tracks can you wot it and hold to the end( only the drag races can this happen on)
we re all bashers here, so the perfect race set up baja isnt our concern, but if i were to contemplate serious racing, i would stick wiht the 23cc or 26 CY or Zen, and have it ported by a reputable porter ( ESP< ODDIE< TS> and others) and then have a tuned pipe built for it. no off the shelf pipe. if your seriously raceing, HAVE THE PIPE MADE!!!!!!!.
hth Timmahh
10-24-2006, 12:20 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
i'd recommend sticking with a stock ZENOAH 23/26. and fitting a proper tune pipe, jetpro being my first choice for the baja(from what i.ve seen on tracks these gave the best power over the X CAN)
i recently fitted the FG carb tune kit with the iridium plug included, it is deffinitely crisper on the throttle and has a quicker low end pick up. it's quite a hard carb to set up perfectly, but tweeking is all part of the fun
i recently fitted the FG carb tune kit with the iridium plug included, it is deffinitely crisper on the throttle and has a quicker low end pick up. it's quite a hard carb to set up perfectly, but tweeking is all part of the fun
10-24-2006, 12:34 PM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: AUS, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
I am not bothered at all by you challenging my HP numbers. It seems that you are the one who is bothered by them though due to ranting and carrying on with God must do your porting and ill give you 50k and my first born etc etc. Sorry to disappoint but the numbers are not inflated and the engines are ported by Suefert Tuning in Germany and come with a dyno sheet and have been reverified here in Aus on another dyno and sometimes they equal or are like 0.1 to 0.2 of a HP off the dyno sheet provided which is due to climate, temperature and humidity at the time of the run.
And since you always mention the standard Zenoah figures well you should also mention that the stock 2.9HP is at 14000 RPM but if you look at the dyno sheet for the ported engine you will notice that peak power is at 19000 RPM so that makes a difference as well.
And since you always mention the standard Zenoah figures well you should also mention that the stock 2.9HP is at 14000 RPM but if you look at the dyno sheet for the ported engine you will notice that peak power is at 19000 RPM so that makes a difference as well.
10-24-2006, 12:43 PM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
[quote]ORIGINAL: SIM2U
Hey thanks a bunch for that...it was helpfull.
In terms of racing it...well, its all contemplation and planning. I still do not know yet, there are too many variables in the decision. I might just decide to bash with it somewhat and be happy with that...? I was going to get a 1/10th jet in all accounts but there is nothing that is available that I want so...the next best thing is on the ground and a big baja would just about do it.
What do you think about the suspension design and chassis flex interms of landings, corners and tortional twists in various situations if I had a sweet motor in it...?
you deffinitely need to put thicker shock oil in it, i'd try 5-7000wt fg oil.
10-24-2006, 01:13 PM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: cramlington, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
ORIGINAL: carpy100
i recently fitted the FG carb tune kit with the iridium plug included, it is deffinitely crisper on the throttle and has a quicker low end pick up. it's quite a hard carb to set up perfectly, but tweeking is all part of the fun
i recently fitted the FG carb tune kit with the iridium plug included, it is deffinitely crisper on the throttle and has a quicker low end pick up. it's quite a hard carb to set up perfectly, but tweeking is all part of the fun
i was looking at those kits myself - did you get if from ebay??? - the price put me off £50 for a carb & plug,prob get it cheaper shipped from usa,worth it though to get rid of the bogging
10-24-2006, 01:14 PM
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .,
UT
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
ORIGINAL: caad5
you will notice that peak power is at 19000 RPM so that makes a difference as well.
you will notice that peak power is at 19000 RPM so that makes a difference as well.
Peak power is at approx 13.7K. At 19K rpms, the engine is producing less than 1.5 HP...
10-24-2006, 01:34 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
ORIGINAL: radio_controlled_mad
i was looking at those kits myself - did you get if from ebay??? - the price put me off £50 for a carb & plug,prob get it cheaper shipped from usa,worth it though to get rid of the bogging
ORIGINAL: carpy100
i recently fitted the FG carb tune kit with the iridium plug included, it is deffinitely crisper on the throttle and has a quicker low end pick up. it's quite a hard carb to set up perfectly, but tweeking is all part of the fun
i recently fitted the FG carb tune kit with the iridium plug included, it is deffinitely crisper on the throttle and has a quicker low end pick up. it's quite a hard carb to set up perfectly, but tweeking is all part of the fun
i was looking at those kits myself - did you get if from ebay??? - the price put me off £50 for a carb & plug,prob get it cheaper shipped from usa,worth it though to get rid of the bogging
yeh, got mine from ddm in states.i would pm ryan about it to check you get the right throttle arm.
loving the sig by the way
10-24-2006, 01:47 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: AUS, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
No I wasnt meaning that it makes 5.5HP at 19000rpm I was trying to say that the stock engine makes power to 14000rpm while the ported engine continues its power range till 19000rpm. That the power is still up there it just doesnt drop off to nothing after its made 5.5HP.
And why are you insisting that this cannot be done. Apart from the fact this is real not falsified, what is so hard about going from 2.9HP to 5.5HP Its 2.6Hp increase. Its not like im saying that porting alone makes like 10HP increase.
And why are you insisting that this cannot be done. Apart from the fact this is real not falsified, what is so hard about going from 2.9HP to 5.5HP Its 2.6Hp increase. Its not like im saying that porting alone makes like 10HP increase.
10-24-2006, 02:35 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .,
UT
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
ORIGINAL: caad5
I was trying to say that the stock engine makes power to 14000rpm while the ported engine continues its power range till 19000rpm.
I was trying to say that the stock engine makes power to 14000rpm while the ported engine continues its power range till 19000rpm.
I am aware of who Seufert Tuning is and I know their work is good. They have the performance on the track to back it up.
Does a well ported piston port engine substantially outperform a stock one? Yes indeed. Do you more than double the horsepower? Sorry, you don't.
ORIGINAL: caad5
what is so hard about going from 2.9HP to 5.5HP Its 2.6Hp increase.
what is so hard about going from 2.9HP to 5.5HP Its 2.6Hp increase.
10-24-2006, 02:39 PM
#60
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: sheboygan,
WI
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
If you guys can get 10hp out of a 26cc engine, that is impressive, my NSR50 Stock is only 7.2hp, and that is a 50cc engine,15k on rev's
10-24-2006, 03:34 PM
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
I have a ZENOAH 26 with a K@n filter and the marder jetpro pipe in my FIREHAMMER. How much HP and RPM do you think it is pushing?
How much HP and RPM do you think it is pushing?
10-24-2006, 03:55 PM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .,
UT
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
ORIGINAL: IONIC-M
I have a ZENOAH 26 with a K@n filter and the marder jetpro pipe in my FIREHAMMER. How much HP and RPM do you think it is pushing?
I have a ZENOAH 26 with a K@n filter and the marder jetpro pipe in my FIREHAMMER.
How much HP and RPM do you think it is pushing?
but here are a couple datapoints and rules of thumb for you to consider:
Stock G260RC is 3 HP.
A k&N filter will not materially affect your power.
A good tuned pipe can add 30ish to 40ish percent to the peak HP of a two stroke engine.
10-24-2006, 04:09 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .,
UT
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
ORIGINAL: IONIC-M
I was told that the JETPRO adds 1.5 hp. So does that mean it is about 4.5hp then? I was just asking. i am new to large scale.
I was told that the JETPRO adds 1.5 hp. So does that mean it is about 4.5hp then? I was just asking. i am new to large scale.
A value in that range, give or take a third of a HP or so, is a reasonable estimate.
10-24-2006, 06:21 PM
#65
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
Yet there are quite a number of them out there and even some Zenoah 23cc's making 5.1 and it is all porting nothing else - no crank changes, no piston changes, no crank case mods nothing. Just porting the intake and exhaust ports and widening those ports.
] It sounds like porting is the simplest solution to a great power increase, period. I mean, why bother with a tuned exhaust pipe that may get damaged during a rough landing, or sink money into another motor, if all you need to do is port the stock 23CC?..............I know this is a heated debate, but I'm trying to learn a little something from the argument.
Jason
10-24-2006, 06:33 PM
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .,
UT
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
ORIGINAL: icecreamslick
I mean, why bother with a tuned exhaust pipe that may get damaged during a rough landing, or sink money into another motor, if all you need to do is port the stock 23CC?
I mean, why bother with a tuned exhaust pipe that may get damaged during a rough landing, or sink money into another motor, if all you need to do is port the stock 23CC?
For maximum performance, a two-stroke engine MUST have a tuned pipe. Because the intake and exhaust stroke are the same, a two-stroke motor needs help pulling burned fuel out, and keeping fresh mix in the cylinder before compression.
Have a look here for some basic info about 2-stroked and tuned pipes.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/two-stroke.htm
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcnuts/em-pipes.html
A two-stroke engine without a tuned pipe is only reaching part of its potential.
10-24-2006, 06:37 PM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .,
UT
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
ORIGINAL: J_D
a tune pipe is alot cheaper to gain power than a good porting job.
a tune pipe is alot cheaper to gain power than a good porting job.
10-24-2006, 06:40 PM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 2,810
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
wow!, thats nice, costs alot more here haha.... maybe cos they dont do many of these engines here., i dont think ive ever seen a goped haha. and 1/5th aint too big here.
10-24-2006, 07:35 PM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: liverpool, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
O HEAR WE GO AGAIN BAJAS NOW OLD,, NOT NEW ANYMORE,AND THE FLAWS ARE SHOWED LIKE ANY NEW MODEL,SO BE EASY,,
I WAS QUIT IMPRESSED WITH B5 TILL I SEEN IT ON A TRACK,,(seen a cpl now)IT WERNT PRETTY[]
I THINK THE B5 HAS A NICHE, IN THE JUS WANA THRASH an bash market,which aint a bad thing,,but on a track its out of its depth-BIG TIME,its ok against std marders but thats about it, maybe future mods will help,but @ the moment iv never seen a buggy act so aratic on a track!!
mk2 shud be shorter and have more low end torq,,(+a bit more robust,shafts wheels etc etc)
this aint a neg comment just an observation!!
so dont start throwing toys lol lol-or hershey bars..[:@]
I WAS QUIT IMPRESSED WITH B5 TILL I SEEN IT ON A TRACK,,(seen a cpl now)IT WERNT PRETTY[
]I THINK THE B5 HAS A NICHE, IN THE JUS WANA THRASH an bash market,which aint a bad thing,,but on a track its out of its depth-BIG TIME,its ok against std marders but thats about it, maybe future mods will help,but @ the moment iv never seen a buggy act so aratic on a track!!
mk2 shud be shorter and have more low end torq,,(+a bit more robust,shafts wheels etc etc)
this aint a neg comment just an observation!!
so dont start throwing toys lol lol-or hershey bars..[:@]
10-24-2006, 08:46 PM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: ontario,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
im not sure right now. but wt your refering to "nitro/rc shock oil?"
the baja shocks take the oil you use in bikes, dont put nitro shock oil in them.
im pritty sure you kno. just making sure and for others not to make the mistake.
this thread is jumping allot.[X(]
[quote]ORIGINAL: carpy100
the baja shocks take the oil you use in bikes, dont put nitro shock oil in them.
im pritty sure you kno. just making sure and for others not to make the mistake.
this thread is jumping allot.[X(]
[quote]ORIGINAL: carpy100
ORIGINAL: SIM2U
Hey thanks a bunch for that...it was helpfull.
In terms of racing it...well, its all contemplation and planning. I still do not know yet, there are too many variables in the decision. I might just decide to bash with it somewhat and be happy with that...? I was going to get a 1/10th jet in all accounts but there is nothing that is available that I want so...the next best thing is on the ground and a big baja would just about do it.
What do you think about the suspension design and chassis flex interms of landings, corners and tortional twists in various situations if I had a sweet motor in it...?
you deffinitely need to put thicker shock oil in it, i'd try 5-7000wt fg oil.
Hey thanks a bunch for that...it was helpfull.
In terms of racing it...well, its all contemplation and planning. I still do not know yet, there are too many variables in the decision. I might just decide to bash with it somewhat and be happy with that...? I was going to get a 1/10th jet in all accounts but there is nothing that is available that I want so...the next best thing is on the ground and a big baja would just about do it.
What do you think about the suspension design and chassis flex interms of landings, corners and tortional twists in various situations if I had a sweet motor in it...?
you deffinitely need to put thicker shock oil in it, i'd try 5-7000wt fg oil.
10-24-2006, 09:17 PM
#72
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: sheboygan,
WI
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
ORIGINAL: speedygonzales
im not sure right now. but wt your refering to "nitro/rc shock oil?"
the baja shocks take the oil you use in bikes, dont put nitro shock oil in them.
im pritty sure you kno. just making sure and for others not to make the mistake.
this thread is jumping allot.[X(]
im not sure right now. but wt your refering to "nitro/rc shock oil?"
the baja shocks take the oil you use in bikes, dont put nitro shock oil in them.
im pritty sure you kno. just making sure and for others not to make the mistake.
this thread is jumping allot.[X(]
10-25-2006, 05:13 AM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
caad5, those look like very good numbers (some of the best for a piston port G260) for good porting--and a good pipe. If you have a E-mail for the tuner in Germany, I would like to E-mail him myself to ask him.
10-25-2006, 06:49 AM
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: AUS, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: First Fuelie is on the Way
Earth Surfer the engine is ported by Suefert Tuning in Germany. When you order and receive the engine it comes in a sealed box and then you find out what HP it makes when you open it and read the Dyno Sheet. You can't ask for a specific HP just either a ported G230 or G260. And at the time I ordered mine a couple of other people got theirs and we basically took a sealed box each and then opened it up to see what power the engine was making. All the engines were Zenoah G260 in the order and they all had different dyno readings. Mine was 5.59 HP another persons was 5.47, another 5.51 etc. At the very least by each engine having a different figure shows that its not falsified coz they could make all the engines have the same power. I dont have an email for the tuner as the engines are ordered through FG using an FG part number.
