Howdy -

I've got a lot of experience in fixed-wing RC, but I'm just breaking into rotary wing. I'm fairly proficient with a 4 channel fixed-pitch and decided to move up to 6 channels. Got an Eagle 50 ( Walkera 22E clone) and I'm experiencing a control problem that I can't seem to get on top of.

On takeoff the heli scoots to the left, so I hold right aileron to compensate until it gets airborne. Have to use a good bit of right rudder, too, but maybe that's a trim issue. Then once it gets out of the ground effect, I correct back toward center. There seems to be a LOT of lag in control response, not to mention that I have to move the sticks all the way to their limits to get a response at all no matter if it's in low or high rate. Then, when the heli does respond it over-corrects, and I try to correct back. There is that lag again during which I'm holding the stick all the way to the limit, then the heli over-corrects the other way, and so on. I wind up with the heli flying me instead of the other way round. It repeatedly gets into a "death spiral" that gets wider, faster and steeper no matter what I do. I finally have to just dump the power and let it plop.

Before I destroy the heli completely, I'd appreciate some input from some gurus. Maybe I have it set up wrong, I dunno. The instructions that came with it are basically useless to someone who is trying to learn 6-channel, so I'm flying in the dark (pun intended).

Any help appreciated!

Thanks!
Sam

Hi there,

And congrats on the move up to a CP heli! Fun aren't they?

First off, what kind of transmitter are you using? There isn't any expo programmed by chance? When you move the cyclic do the servo's respond instantly or is there a 'lag'? Also, with stick input how much stick travel to servo travel are you getting? BTW, do this with the heli on the ground...you may want to disconnect the motor if your iffy about the blades accidently spooling up - just for safety.

Also, do you have training gear of some sort for your heli? This will help in preventing tipovers somewhat.

Don't know if you have a sim but you may want to get one to practice with.

Mark

Edit: just took a look at your heli and see that its similar to the older Eflight Blade CP's...the reason it seems sluggish is its got hiller mixing and not bell/hiller combination mixing, so the controls respond a bit slower for beginners. Get some training gear on it and go from there.

Hey, Aframomum! Thanks for the shout back. I'm starting to discover how much fun CP is, I'm just having some teething problems.

Transmitter is a WK-2402. Part of the problem is that I can't really get my head around the instructions - yes, I can understand the programming instructions, reversing servos, etc, but I don't know how to achieve what I'm looking for. I know squat about swashplate type, rudder mixing, pitch adjustment, etc. Right now, with the throttle all the way down, I have a fair amount of servo travel. But the second I spool up, the servo travel drops drastically, almost zero in fact.

Expo is off, even though I had turned it on and saved the setting. Seems to turn itself off when the transmitter powers down. I had it on to try to set a normal throttle and pitch curve, but I can't see that I've accomplished anything.

What I need is CP Heli Setup for Dummies or the equivalent. If you have a recommendation, I'll certainly check it out!

Thanks!

Hi Sam,

The type of mixing you have on your heli (hiller) is the reason your seeing the slow response of the aerilon and elevator controls. Not really all that much you can do with the radio as the heli's head is designed this way.

Here's a link for you to learn all you'll need about heli basics: [link=http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=41692]Heli 101[/link]

You'll have to sign up to load the video's but they are well worth it and its were many of us started out.

Mark

Thanks, Mark. I'm already thinking about a 450 size heli - I have FMS with several helis I've downloaded, and I can fly the heck out of them. Some of them, like the Gazelle, are really fast and twitchy, but I have a pretty solid mastery of them. I honestly feel like I could do better with a quicker-responding heli that has more weight and stability to it.

Thanks for the link - I'll definitely download it and watch the vids!

Sam

I found my problem, or at least I'm pretty sure I found the problem.

I had put a metal rotor head assembly on the heli, and right after that was when it started acting weird. After all the frustration, dinking with the transmitter, fiddling with the links, I noticed that the swash plate wouldn't go up and down, and that the servos seemed to be binding somehow. I could disconnect all the links, and the servos worked like a charm, but when I connected everything up it was all locked up again.

I was completely bumfuzzled, so I took all the connectors loose and then reconnected them one by one, each time checking the servos. They seemed to work fine until I hooked up the oval connectors between the swash plate and the flybar link. That's when everything would seize up.

And then it hit me - when I had installed the metal rotor head, the flybar connector holder had been very tight on the shaft. Dummy grasshopper here thought that it was SUPPOSED to be tight to hold everything on. DUH!!! After a good bit of twisting, cussing, and breaking the guide pins off the T-holder [:@] I got the flybar connector holder off. I drilled the hole out just large enough to slip over the shaft, and now it works as it should.

Of course, now I need to make another parts order, so I'm going whole hog. New T-holder, new blades, new landing struts (one got broke early on) new connectors. I think that now I'll have a heli that will fly right as long as I do!!

Hi Sam,

Did you have fun with the video's...hopefully you didn't lose too much sleep watching them.

One bit of advice about your current heli...don't try upgrading it with metal parts...it really isn't worth it. Save your money for your next heli (a 450 would be a good choice) and just fly the heck out of what you have now. With a gear driven tail motor you'll soon discover the limitations verses a belt or shaft driven tail with its own servo (the 450 heli's will have a much better holding tail).

For now just practice on your hovering (do tail-in, side-in, then nose-in) before progressing to forward flight. At this point the sim will be your friend to ingrain muscle memory for the stick movements.

BTW, good detective work on finding out why the swash wasn't moving. Lesson 1: your heli and you will have a love/hate relationship...just accept it now and don't fight it.

Now comes the waiting game for parts...

Mark

I've decided that this order (last night) will be the last one on this bird. I'm bringing it back to factory new condition (for all intents and purposes) and I'm going to do just like you said, use it to work on the hover.

The sim is a blast, but I know not what "idle up pitch curve" and all that stuff is all about. I do know that I had to do a lot of tweaking to get one of the models to behave - move the throttle up ONE notch from zero and it would shoot up, move the throttle back down and it would come down like a pole-axed pigeon. But I got one of the models to fly like I want it to, and the practice seems very realistic.

Yep, one can lose a LOT of sleep watching the vids!! And I'm with you on the love/hate relationship - all that time I spend cussing, twiddling and looking for that one little screw that I dropped turns into fun when I spool it up outside.

Thanks for all the tips - I'm soaking all of them in!

Sam