supertux1

Hi All!

I'm thinking of getting a remote control helicopter, after driving 1/8 buggies around for the last year.
I'm pretty good with two stroke nitro engines (have installed/rebuilt several), so there's a start.

I bought RealFlight G2 with the #4 Add-on for the Kyosho Caliber .30 (Which I am thinking of purchasing.)

In RF, I can hover tail-in, back and forth and side to side and bring it down without crashing it. My favorite
trick in RF, is to slam the collective/throttle way up and then randomly spin the sticks in various directions.
I can then bring the helicopter safely down in front of me from whatever position it ends up in in the sky.
I apply a little TR until the tail is pointed at me, then it's easier (but not easy). However I am totally useless
when the nose is pointed directly at me, so my muscle-memory isn't all that great yet.

(At one point, I didn't realize that most of my cyclic trims on the controller were way off and
I didn't even notice it until calibrating the thing a few flights later! I think that's progress.)

So am I ready for the real thing? Unfortunately there is no one in my area that I've found
(on the internet at least) that also flies and could teach me. (Then again it is winter...)
I'll be joining the model fixed-wing club here spring, as they have a field I could fly on
and no doubt lots of advice about radios/servos engines etc...

I would also be purchasing training gear, blade balancers and pitch measure just to keep it all my fault
WHEN (not if) I do crash it!

FHHuber

short answer... No.

Long answer:

You have done a good job making life easier for yourslef when you get the R/C heli... you have not eliminated the need for lots of assistance and practice in order to fly the RC heli.

The modle on the dimulator reacts just like the model when its up and flying around. Its even pretty good at simulating hover in no wind condition. With just 5 mph wind, the ground turbulence of reality is nowhere near the same as the sim. (the sim is easy... reality is hard to deal with)

THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR AN INSTRUCTOR!

supertux1

Well then,

For further RF G2 practice, what settings would you recommend that are more close to the real thing?

Here's the settings for which I am semi-proficient at:

I have the wind and gusts at 10mph, 360 degrees. I have the landing slider bar all the way to 'realistic.'
and I don't use the helicopter with the wide/long skids. (Supposed to simulate training gear?)

The only thing in the sim that screws me up on a regular basis is the 2D objects -- It's hard to tell
from looking at the monitor if I'm infront of or behind some object. I practice with them off most
of the time, it also helps with the processor speed etc..

FHHuber

That's the major problem... the sim CAN'T replicate ground turbulence. There are no settings you can make that will cure it.

Then.. when you assemble the heli, even if you PERFECTLY follow the directions, it will need to be trimmed to fly. A beginner has enough problem flying the thing if its trimmed. Untrimmed and a beginner both... you are going to break something. (maybe hurt yourself...)

There is no replacement for having an experienced heli flyer help you.

Yes... its possible to eventually teach yourself... invest in 10 crash kits because you will need them.

ChopperMike

My .02, go for it. Flying the sim is great help but no sim is going to simulate your particular heli exactly. I guess I'm a little biased because I learned to fly 15 or so years ago and we didn't have sims then. You just strapped on your training gear and taught yourself since there also were no experienced heli pilots around, where I live at least. If you can fly the sim reasonably well you can handle the real thing. Your first flights are low to the ground and with the training gear on, you're not likely to do any serious damage. I get so sick of hearing people say "Oh, you have to spend 3 or 4 months flying your sim before you even take your new heli out of the box". IMO the sim is harder than the real thing. I can hover out an entire tank on my Hawk Sport motionless over a spot if I want to but doing that on a sim is a different matter. I learned w/o a sim and I didn't have a lot of crashes. If you use a sim and learn the basics, you're already ahead of the game that a lot of us played.

Definitely get someone to help you if at all possible. The hardest part of teaching yourself is the setup of your helicopter. If that's not right, the leaning curve is even longer. It may be that you can find someone who is within a reasonable driving distance that can spend an afternoon with you. It will be a big help. Make sure that the fixed wing club you mentioned will allow you to fly a heli there. Some won't. Some have had bad experiences with heli pilots and refuse to let anyone fly a heli at their field. Mine doesn't have a problem with myself or our 1 other heli pilot flying our heli's but we're always mindfull of the plank (fixed wing) pilots and get along good with them. And we both also fly planks. If you absolutely can't find anyone to help, get a good book like Ray's Authoritative Helicopter Manual. Pretty everything you need to know is in there.

Hope this helps,

Mike


Century Hawk Sport
MS Hornet CP
Futaba 9C
TT 36

Spaceman Spiff

My Feedback: (1)

Check this out:

http://www.p-locate.rc-helipad.com/

i didn't see anyone from cottage grove, but maybe there is sombody within easy driving distance. Even if it takes a couple hours it is time well spent.

supertux1

Thanks for the positive responses!

There are a few folks near by me on that pilot search thing, which is good. All but two I think are a couple hours away.

Anyway, my plan is to learn as much as possible about how RC helicopters work and before attempting to build and fly one.
That won't be until summer anyway, so I'm in no hurry and have plenty of time for "ground school." My plan would be
to buy a good radio and servo set first, maybe install it in one of my buggies to learn the feel of the sticks

I've heard of Ray's Manual and I'll be purchasing it shortly. I've also seen a lot of videos for sale on the subject, TowerHobbies
has one by Milt, and there are two available from Rotary Flyer Magazine. I know they probably aren't a substitite
for a good instructor, but in general are those kinds of videos worth it?

As long as we're on the subject of self training -- there are two other sets of gear that I have some quetions about.
The first is the FMA Co-Pilot (http://www.hobby-warehouse.com/copfligstabs.html) -- has anyone used
this successfully on a helicopter? (It appears to be for airplaines, but the info claims it'll work with limitations on a heli)

Second, about 15 years ago while reading a model airplane magazine, I came across some unique helicopter training gear.
It was a device that sat stationary on the ground and had retractable vertical arms that allowed a helicopter to lift off, yaw and
bank, but had springs such that the descent was limited to a safe rate. (It would only let the helicopter hover
between 1 and 3 feet.) Do these things still exist?

Thanks for the info!

polstery

Sure your ready, GO FOR IT, whats the worst that can happen, a crash big deal we all been there. Alot of these guys like to carry on like they never crash, BULL!! I crash a lot but thats becuse I like to push the limits. You need to know where they are and need to fly just a little over the limits to be a great pilot.

Boomstriker

Now days with all the modern goodies to help you, it's not unheard of to hover on the first tank.
If you have car, radio and sim experience, your way ahead of a lot of guys. Some help for the building and initial set-up would be great, but a good book and a lot of common sense goes a long way.

I also learned to fly many years ago without a gyro, sim or any help at all.
I came from planks, cars and boats so the tuning, mechanics and radio were old hat.
I spent countless hours on the training wheels but eventually got down tail-in hover. A year later I got a different heli with one of the first 'flywheel' gyros and then things started to progress.
I'm well into 3D today and though I've had countless close calls, I've never crashed do to dumb thumbs-- only equipment failures. KOW!! If you practice manuvers on the sim first and stay up high until you have it nailed, you CAN go without crashing POLSTERY.
I think the key is patients, but most kids these days don't have any - (my students anyway). They want to do aerobatics NOW, not next year. They're the stick-bangers that crash all the time, always look out of control and the old planker's fear.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, take it slow and good luck!!!

Kirk

FHHuber

Just ONE training session with an instructor gets you a trimmed heli... THAT is 3/4 of the battle for a newbie. If it isn't trimmed and you don't know how to fly... you got problems.

The sim automaticly has the right throttle-pitch curve. Your model doesn't.
The sim automaticly has the blades tracking perfectly.
The sim automaticly has the gyro right side up.

Faenor

This is going to fly in the face of what just about everyone else is saying, but in my opinion, for the specific exercise of HOVERING, I found it far easier in real life than in the simulator (Reflex)... I have a post on this board detailing what led up to my first, and until I get my Raptor50, ONLY, helicopter experience. And that was a 1 minute hover at about 3 feet.

In the Sim, I can hover over a very small spot with difficulty... That is to say, I have to be concentrating very hard. and it seems as though my control inputs are constant and continuous.

When my friend allowed me to attempt to hover his IMPECCABLY setup up raptor 50, I could hover with far less control intervention, in fact, it was almost eerie how the helicopter in real life just hung there motionless like it was suspended on a string, where as in the sim I was constantly making throttle inputs to maintain 2-3 feet.

I'm convinced that if I had had the cojones at the time, I could have done slow figure eights in front of me just as I can do in the sim, as well as nose in hover, or left nose right nose hover for that matter...

Prior to that first attempt I had about 2 months of practice in the sim where I did nothing but slow coordinated flight and hovering... I am almost to the point now where in the sim, I can fly around myself slowly while the helicopter is slowly spinning, so the helo is like a slowly rotating planet orbiting me... These are the things I practice...

So 'm not certain if I'm the odd man out here, but in this one instance, I found real life hover much easier than the !QUOT!twitchy!QUOT! sim... Therein I think lies the advantage...

I hope the other maneuvers are on par difficulty wise when I attempt them with my own equipment

I DO agree though that an experienced pilot who sets up your helicopter FIRST is absolutely essential!

Fae

johnnyseko

Get the Caliber and Rays book and you're ready to go. I don't know of the videos - don't own any - just Rays book and this site is plenty of info for me.

I don't think you should worry about a copilot - if I don't use one, you shouldn't need to either. Same goes for that arm that holds your heli in place. Save your money and get a good gyro/tail servo.

The advice I can give is just to take it real slow - don't rush anything. There is a big difference sitting in front of a computer and flying and then going out to the field with your adrenaline pumping - it will make your thumbs act differently than on the sim.

grittykitty

supertux1,

You are off to a great start. I used RFG2 for a 1 & 1/2 years before touching the real thing. The biggest single recommendation I would make is to learn how to nose-in on RF first. Take the time through the winter and practice, practice, practice.....It will come.
As FHHuber states, RF cannot simulate the ground turbulence, but that is what training gear is for. Once you have built your reflexes, this is much easier to deal with. Before you buy, try to find some help. See what the instructor is flying. It is much easier for an instructor to go over something they are familiar with, and they are much more likely to catch a problem right off the bat.

I have a Raptor 50 v2, so I'm a little biased here. My instructor has a Raptor 30 v1, a raptor 50 v2, and a caliber 30. He let me fly the caliber, and it is a great flying bird. If I remember correctly (and if not, I will be corrected), the caliber 30 is about 1/2 lb. heavier than my raptor 50, which makes it a bit more sluggish due to the lower power-to-weight ratio, but the additional mass does make it less touchy, more stable, and a little hardier in a crash. Like I said, I'm a little biased in this, but with the quality of today's birds, there are a lot of good ones out there. GO FOR IT.

DustOffUH1

My Feedback: (2)

Go for it. You have plenty of time to research & find someone help you get it set up correctly. I did it all by myself but highly recommend against it. A few hours drive is definately worth it. That one trip will save you LOTS of time, money, and agrivation. Keep practicing on G2. Building the heli shouldn't be a problem for you. Just take your time & follow the directions to the letter. As far as heli's, I've only built Century products so I don't know how other instruction manuals are. Anyway, RC helicopters are totally AWESOME Just take your time, be safe and most of all Have Fun
Joe

FlyingFish

My Feedback: (17)

Im a flying pro on the simulator, But on the field im like a nervouse little puppy just hanging on to that steady hover afraid to due a simple "go around pattern" the sim is only good to keep your mind sharp so that if the heli is suddenly pointed at you, you will remember to move the stick in the right position.

bdphil

My Feedback: (26)

I say you're probably ready to get a real heli. No simulator gives you any help with adjusting linkages, measuring pitch settings, tuning an engine, or any of the stuff that poses the most problem for beginners. Having the model in front of you and going through all the assembly and radio setup is the only way to learn that stuff.

Having the sim will only help you program your brain for the actual flying part. Just make sure you spend your time on the sim wisely. It's a tool to train your brain, not entertain your brain. Practice flying in a controlled and deliberate way. Get used to the control inputs and responses. Learn to fly in different orietations and at different altitudes. In short; learn to fly the heli, not just keep it from crashing.

Don't hesitate to ask questions on setting your heli up. Having the proper setup is the key to success.

Ben

DustOffUH1

My Feedback: (2)

Ditto on what Ben said
Joe

supertux1

Thanks!

I bought a radio today, the Futaba 9CHF with the trainer cord to hook it into RF.
I'm going to start using the real radio now instead of RealFlight's.

I can drive the heli around myself in a circle (left and right) and do autorotations in RealFlight now.
The equipment I've reasearched and probably going to buy next:
(in no particular order)

Raptor 60 V2 w/O.S. Engine
CSM560 Gyro/Futaba S9253
Throttle Jockey Pro Governor/Futaba S9253
3suitable digital servos for collective/pitch/roll
FMA FS8 Co-Pilot
Blade Balancer/Ptich Gauge/Misc Tools.

I've also got a copy of the Raptor Manual, have been studying the assembly linkages etc...
I definitely want the kit, not the ARF.

Ray's Authoritative Manual is also very helpful, lots good advice in there that I haven't found online.

supertux1

Oh one thing I almost forgot:

I'm also going to get/make a 5 or 6 cell Ni-Mh battery pack and put an adjustable
voltage regulator on it to bring the voltage down to 4.8V.
That way if I lose a cell the servos should still operate, and it'll be more consistent.

DustOffUH1

My Feedback: (2)

You're making the right choice by going with a kit. You'll be able to figure out how to get it apart & back together easier. You see how things go together. And most important you know you put threadlock where its supposed to be Plus I think its just plain fun & interesting. Good luck & Have Fun!

Boomstriker

You might consider a stronger tail servo for that 60.
The 9253 is very fast but has hardly any torque behind it and the gears wear quickly.
An HS 5925MG is about half the price too.

You may want to leave the governor and the co pilot out of the mix until you have the mechanics adjusted and the curves where they need to be. Once you're familiar with all of the radio options and have some stick time, you will see that neither is really necessary. It would be a nightmare trying to set-up all of that while learning to fly too.
Kirk

supertux1

I thought that speed, not torque was the main factor in considering a tail rotor servo.

That being said, the Hi Tec servo you mentioned has travel times of .1s with 102oz/in of torque
while the Futaba has .08s with 27oz/in of torque. (both at 4.8V) Do tail rotors REALLY need all
that extra torque, or is more just a good thing in general. Also, is there really any noticable
difference from .08 to .1 ? What about quality issues? (A stripped servo has infinite travel time
and zero torque! )

As for the governor and co-pilot, I plan on getting the heli trimmed without them.
Just breaking in the engine is going to require the absense of the governor, so I'll be building
the kit without all the extras initially. Once I am satisfied it's all working, I'll put them on. I'd like
to use the governor and co-pilot because I feel they will assist me in learning to fly the helicopter.
However, I do not want to 'depend' on them which is why I need my radio to be able to turn
them off.

bdphil

My Feedback: (26)

The 9253 will hold the tail of a 60 size heli just fine. I've used one in my XL60ST for years with no problems. Even used one in my Tempest for a while. You really don't need a governor for learning and you certainly don't need to run a 9253 servo with one.

Ben

grittykitty

supertux1,

I don't know if you are aware of this. If you hook up your 9C to RealFlight, pull the frequency module out of the back of the radio (or extend the antennae). With the module in and the antennae collapsed, the radio is trying to put out it's signal, but the higher resistance of the collapsed antennae can fry the module after a while. If you have the radio on (and leave the antennae in) for a little bit while adjusting the settings on a real aircraft, you can feel the module get pretty warm fairly quickly.

Just trying to save you $49.99.

P.S. - RealFlight is great for learning the functions of your 9C, but once you get real aircraft, leave the 9C in the box. Nothing like hooking up your radio to realflight and accidentally making adjustments to real aircraft settings, and then go to the field to fly, get it up in the air, and go "Uh-Oh".[:@] Once you get proficient at flying, you will be able to pick up just about any radio and be comfortable with it within a few minutes, including the RF radio. It can feel funny going back and forth, but you get used to it, and the prevention of an accident is well worth it.

supertux1

Hi,

Before I got the 9C I read here or another board that someone had RealFlight 'fry' their 9C -- what they were really doing was running it with the antenna down and the Tx module on. I took my Tx module out.

On the 9C I have a model setup for RealFlight (AERO) and one model setup for flying (HELI) . The picture on the LCD screen shows right away if I'm in the wrong mode.