Hello all,
I am about to finally get into the R/C Helli sport after quite a few years of having the desire. I'm looking at getting a scale or SS for my first Helli. To be honest, I think they look much better and I am really not interested in all the Aerobatics......YET. I just want to do the simple stuff. I grew up with my dad being a Mechanic for the Military and working on the Hueys... so ... naturally that would be my passion... to own an RC Helli that is modeled after a Huey. I am looking at the Hirobo Uh-1b .30 size (more my price range) and would like to get as much feedback as possible. I know what everyone is thinking... I'm starting pretty high but this is my thought on it. Get what I want First and Then after wards move on.
I've been doing all kinds of reading for beginners on here and the web and I got me The RF G2 simulator and have been practicing up on it. I'm pretty good I might add. I know that there are alot more details...engine tuning, radio tuning, blade balancing and pitch...etc. and that Ive already made up mind that I will need a local to help me out with.
Anyway... enough rambling... What do y'all think.
Thanks

Bart

This'll be an interesting thread!

I'm new myself, but I don't think I'd recommend a scale fuse right off the bat - at least, not on the bird.

It's practically a given that you're gonna crash, (knock on wood, I haven't yet!). If you've already got the scale fuse on it, odds are it'll end up requiring some serious repair work - if it can be repaired.

What I've done with my second bird is get it with the fuse, but - when I finally get it together and in the air - I'll use the standard canopy until I'm comfortable enough to put the fuse on it.

Good luck, whatever you decide...

Yes scale helis look great and sims help. But if you are new to helis I would say start with a basic heli and then after you get the hang of it you can either put a scale fuselage on it or move into the heli you like. There are many company's out there today that offer a nice helicopters for a GREAT price. I started helicopters with a lite machines and crashed it ALOT and was very cheap to fix then I purchased a Century Hawk Sport for $150.00 brand new and I love it, I am not scared to crash it (knock on wood I have not yet) Because it was only 150.00 and it was ARF and I don't have a billion hours into building it. Simulators do help and are a great to learn and play with but I think the biggest problem with helicopters is getting over the fear of it crashing as with a simulator you do not have this problem. I found getting over the fear of crashing it is very stressful when you actually go and try to fly for your first few times.

I understand you're wanting to go scale -- I'm the same way. I just don't get all worked up over pod & booms. I also happen to be getting in a Vario Huey (hopefull tomorrow!) and a great subject choice. However...

I think you'd be making a big mistake getting that Hirobo Huey right off the bat. I've been eyeing that kit myself, and I think it's probably a really nice kit (I have a Hirobo Lama). But, you'll be dealing with a lot of extra stuff in that kit that is probably best left until later -- the angled tail, full fusealge, painting... When you've got the mechs inside a fuse in general it's a lot harder to work on. If you make a bunch of beginnner's mistakes putting it together, you may have to be taking a lot of it apart and resassembling just to get at the 1 little bolt that you forgot to locktite...
Plus, with newbie nerves, there's a much higher chance you're going to drill all that hard work right into the ground pretty quick.

If you really want to start right out scale, I'd recommend the "pod&boom-ish" types: Schweizer 300, Bell 47G, Lama. Those are all pretty much as straight forward to build as a simple pod & boom, plus the mechs are much more accesible than a full-fuselage type.

The Century Schweizer would make a great starter scale and won't burn a hole in your pocket. Century Bell47G is also a good choice, but more expensive. Either one can be fitted with an FMA CoPilot. I'd highly recommend you get one to help protect the extra investment you'll be making in scale and learning at the same time.

Scales I have:

Vario Bell 47G
Vario Huey (well coming tomorrow, wooohoo)
Joker in a Century .60-size 500D fuse
Century Bell 47G
Hirobo Lama
Century Schweizer 300C

-edg-

I really like scale, but if I might make MO only now-buy something reasonable & affordable to learn the ins-outs of flying..Possibly even one with the mechanics that would work with the scale fuelage of your choice. I started off many years ago with a Kavan and I was glad I had been flying before getting a scale heli...Just my 2 cents...

Thanks guys , alot of food for thought.
Here is something you might be able to answer. ON the RF G2 sim I was flying a Kyosho Caliber 30. Now I know these things arent real life but I am to understand that they are about as close as we can get...right now.
Here is my question.
When flying that compared to the models:Huey, Jetranger, I have noticed that the Cal. 30 is really SQUIRRELY compared to the sims with the fuse. Is this true in the real heli world?
I can understand the Fuse being heavier and bulkier making it not so manuverable as the pods. Is that right?
Thanks For the feedback
Keep it comming
Bart

Bart,
The RF Sim is trying to mimic the feel of a typical scale heli. For the most part the cyclic reponse on scale helis is set for stability rather than the "sporty" feel of the Caliber. This is the major difference between pod & boom and scale.

If you want to know how the real thing feels on a calm day then try the Caliber on "Low Rates" with zero wind. This is pretty close but in real life the model will hover slightly easier unless you are perpendicular to the wind. This takes some getting used to.

Try to learn to hover tail-in, left side, right side, and nose in. If you learn this then on your first day you will be prepared to do to more than just hovering. But, Nose-In is the key! Many pilots tend to forget the importance of it.

Another reason to stay away from scale first is the complexity of mechanical setup gets more difficult with that fuse on. Something as simple as changing a glow plug can be a real nightmare on some scale helis! I would advise you to consider a Hawk Sport/Hawk SE or the Falcon 50 SE V2. All of these will do wonders when placed in a scale fuse after you have learned the basics. By the time you get ready for a scale project you will have proven the mechs(mechanics) reliable and will have learned alot about setup. Then, the rest to worry about is paint, installation, and detailing!!

A sim will only take you so far. It's pretty much impossible to totally account for every variable and computer flight models are hugely simplified. I wouldn't read too much into how different one feels in G2 vs another one...

Anyway, my Huey arrived last night!

I'm stoked to fly it. Here's a pic of my completed fleet. It's pretty much gonna be it for a while as I'm out of room.

-edg-

If your having problems affording the heli, just think about affording a new fuse and putting all the work into it after your first flight. pod and booms are boring, but they are cheap. Get one that you can later add a fuse to. I guarentee, if you fly a fuse first, you will not fly helis long because you will crash learning to fly, and you will loose interest quickly if you have to keep fixing the entire fuse. They are usually built kind of light so they don't weigh a lot, but that means when they slam into the ground, they will come apart a lot.

Say what? That's a subjective response. I don't think telling a beginner that is proper.

If their so boring then we got alot of board stiff 3D and FAI pilots out there. Hmmm, lets see that means 80% of those flying helis are bored......

Every flyer has different tastes some like pod & boom some like scale heli's-sorta like Coke-Pepsi loL. I just spent a lot of time -$$ painting & airbrushing my Fins-canopy they can be made to look pretty much anyway you would like. But on a scale fuse I like a lot of factory looking striping.....saw one that was exact replica of our TV news channel 6 was awesome looking..

I don't mean boring to fly, I mean a lot of people complain that they are nothing to look at. I personally don't care one way or the other. I kind of like mine. Sorry, didn't mean for it to sound like it did. They are actually very fun to fly. I don't have any with fuses any more. Will probably build a jet ranger this winter because I have the molds for it. Should be fun.

Flyboy,
No prob. I just don't want those interested in trying helis to get the impression that pod & boom is lacking or boring in some way. I am a 3D pilot but sure do have alot of respect for those that have the building skills and patience for scale.

My dream scale heli is a Vario MD500E in gasser form with a 5 blade head! Ohhhhhhhh man that would do me righteous!!! Just don't have the $$$$$ these days.....
http://www.variousa.com/hughes500.html

Again ... Thanks.
I have come to a decision... You guys are right. I would probably be making a big mistake starting out like that. So... I figured what the Heck.. The Hawk Sport will only set me back a buck and half from my original goal. It would be good to take the newbie jitters out on and get a good feal for the beasts.
I got to hand it to you LIFT, If you're not working for Century you should be. I have been reading the other threads and you would do great in the HAWK SPORT sales industry. Not only make a brotha wanna buy one but two so he could fly one and stare at the other in is off time. I do much appreciate yours and all the other opinions on helping me through this.
Dont worry I didn't misunderstand andy of the comments. I know that Pod and Booms aren't as traditionally helicopter looking but Im am sure they are more fun than scales with the Aerobatics they able to do. For me... not really interested in Aerobatics........YET...... But I'm keeping an open mind. I just want to fly.
My wife thinks I'm obsessed with Helicopters and I don't even own one yet. Whenever asked...
The top of the Christmas List is........"Just Give Me Cash"
Second......."Loose change will work too"
I tell everyone I see, everywhere I go, "Money laying around automaticly goes into the Helicopter Fund"
It's not that bad... with the HAWK SPORT, I should be flying by January instead April or May as with the $700+ Hirobo UH .30 SS Kit. So that should be nice.
With all that said... Let me know how this set up sounds.

--OS.32 sxh engine
#8 glow plug
--Airtronics RD6000 Super W/5 94322 BB Servo(all suppose to be good reviews)
--GY401 (do I need a better servo for this or can I use the 5th one from above)
--Batteries and charger... not sure what to get
--Does the Muffler and Gas tank come with the Kit?
--What BASIC Tools Do I need?
--What would be some other suggestions?

Thanks again to all of you.
Talk to you soon
Bart

P. S.
I love the Pics EDG
What Kits did you use for all of em?
Bart

ThBrtmn
Thanks for the kind words. Nope, I don't work for Century nor am I a Representative. I just like to provide suggestions based on actual experience. Alot of people seem to be oblivious to the fact that Century is coming on hard. They got in the game when the Shuttle & Kyosho Concept series was tops. When the Hawk came out it took the market by storm like the Raptor did. But, there were some design changes needed and Century kept refining it year by year till now it's a VERY difficult little design to beat. That and they can produce them cheap because of how long the main components have been amortized. For $160 bucks you get a solid design that has been proven again and again. You can upgrade this thing till your purple. It can go from Hawk Sport to Falcon SE V2 if you want to take the long route. By the time you get there you got features that normally are only on 60/90 size helis. To be honest, that $160 isn't a set back at all. It's an investment in your heli success!

Now, regarding equipment ALWAYS try to spend as much as you possibly can on the radio system and gyro. If it takes you another two or three paychecks to get a JR 8103 or Futaba 9C instead of that Airtronics RD 6000 Super then by all means wait. Radio selection is that serious! I do want to say that the Airtronics RD Heli series is a VERY VERY good value(features/price). If you can try to do the 8000 cause scale use needs some channels and the 8000 gives you a couple more to work with. Got it?

Servos will be fine. Those are nice servos. Battery - you need at least 1000mah 4.8v pack. If I were you I would get something from 1400 - 2000.

The GY401 is the current king. Stay right there. Period!

Tools:
Ball link pliers
Hex wrench set(the Century one is pretty nice and cheap for $20)
Pitch Guage (Vario or Minature Aircraft(MA))
Screwdrivers (mainly Phillips #1 size bit)
Blade Blancer (PM me, I got something that will work for cheap)

These are the minimums except for the blade balancer. It can be done without one but with not as much accuracy. But, for hovering you just don't want any bad vibrations so a spanwise check is best.

Try to get Ray's Authoritative Heli manual and read it before building. It will open your eyes to look for things before you actually do it. It's overall the best manual out there. Just include it with your order or get it before you get your heli and read it. I had one but sold it to a beginner. He loves it!

Who knows, by the time you get past FF and want to do scale maybe you will put that Hawk inside one of the many scale fuses that Century had for it.

One question I'm not clear on...
Do the radios automaticly come with the receiver or is that a seperate purchase?
Bart

thBrtman: that's one of the things you need to watch out for!

Radios come both ways: with and without the receiver.

I've only bought one, (my other came with the heli kit), but as a reference: it's a HiTec Eclipse 7 with a Spectra unit - ~ $235; with the receiver and servos, ~ $340.

I See,
Thanks Graeme, I wasn't clear on that. Lately I've done more time reading and absorbing all this info than I have been on the Simulator, and being new to this... that was one thing that I was not clear on.
Thanks Again
Bart

ThBrtmn,
I don't know how the Eclipse is packaged but all the other brands come as complete sets:
Transmitter W/battery & crystal
Receiver W/crystal
Receiver battery pack
Power switch
Servos
Mounting hardware

ThBrtmn

Look at the 9CHP radios from Futaba. They rock. They come with everything but the gyro, and they are very nice to program. Can't say enough good about them.

Took my Raptor 60 to the field yesteday and the wing was blowing 12 knots. Did a bunch of loops, rolls, pinwheels and inverted flight and a couple new guys were amazed. They kept saying that they didn't know helis could do that. Have a blast with it. They sure are fun.

Bart,
Flyboy is right in that the 9C is a great value. It is the most recent release in the 8-9 channel market and has some nice features. Plus it is priced well and you can get some good deals overseas. Just remember that your warranty will be with Futaba of Japan and not Great Planes here in the US.

But, I have one thing against the 9C. It is a very uncomfortable radio to hold if you fly with index finger and thumb on the gimbals. You will find that there is VERY limited room for the other fingers to be placed between switches or elsewhere. IMHO it is the most uncomfortable radio on the market currently. If you want a real comfortable radio with the same functionality then go for the JR 8103. Or, wait till the awesome JR 9X comes out!

Actually,
On the USB Sim Tx... I use just my thumbs... Is that Bad?
The Thumb and Index doesnt feel right but if I have to change... They'll just have to get use to it now wont they.
Bart

The ones in the Pic are, from left to right:

o Century 500D .60 fuse with Joker mechs. Actro 24-5 Motor using 30 cells.

o Vario Huey with Evolution-S mechs. OS .61 WC engine

o Vario Bell 47G with Kobold mechs OS .61 engine.

o Century Bell 47G kit. OS .50.

o Hirobo Lama. OS .32.

o Century Scweizer 300C OS .32.

o Eco8. Hacker B50-15L. 10 cells.

My only Pod & boom left is the Eco8 which I am going to keep that way. The Joker and both Vario's a flew for a while first as pod & booms.

You made a good decision going with the Hawk Sport first. I thiink it's the best bang for the buck out there right now. Plus, you'll be able to add upgrades later on and convert it to a scale if you wish.

-edg-

Bart,
Concerning gimbal control what is most important is comfort. You don't want something in your equipment or use of it that makes you think about what your doing down there. What matters most is your eye on the model and your input/reaction to flying it.

I advise beginners to use index finger and thumb. Two fingers make you more steady and precise. But, many people have trouble holding the radio when they do this. Transmitter trays & neckstraps tend to help if that is how you want to fly. But, if you just can't get used to it then by all means fly thumbs. Just give the index/thumb method a good solid try. It takes a little getting used to but is indeed a more sure way of control.