I learned to hover all upright orientations with the G3.5 in two weeks.

If you have a copilot, how successful have you been. It sounds great to be flying right away and just adjust the amount of input you provide as you improve. But is it a crutch? Have you been flying around for months afraid of making the leap to full control?

I'm wondering because I've considered mounting it upside down to help with my inverted training. Would this work?

You don't have to mount it upside down. It works either way.

NOT that I'm an expert. In fact, I just ordered one today. The
FMA CPD4. You can download the manual's at FMA's web site.
Download it and check it out.

I've read so much about it on the forums that I'm getting it
just for peace of mind. I love new and not so new technology.

Heck...I even use a gyro to keep the tail straight.

AND, if you don't like it after you try it...you can easily sell
them here on the forums.

Just my humble opinions....

Oh, and I found RealFlight G3.5 to be fun to play with but
its way to easy.

Happy Hovering...
AB

Point taken

IF you do get a copilot be sure to get the correct one.

Mine is going on an MX400 Pro which is NOT ccpm. I
will be using the CPD4.

But, if you have a CCPM type heli then you need the FS8
copilot which has a built in 8 channel FM DSR receiver.
Actually the FS8 would work on either heli when setup
properly.

Go here to check them out: http://www.fmadirect.com/

Good Luck,
Bob

Well I flew my MX400 Pro (non ccpm) today with the
FMA Co-Pilot installed.

It works perfect...You have to see it to believe it.
VERY solid hovering when you let go of the right
stick. It's way better than I had hoped for.

Now I can fly my MX more often without the fear
of crashing it.

You gotta try it...

Bob

You can tweak various settings in G3 to make a heli fly as easy or as difficult as you wish . I have changed the Dominion 3D over to electric , changed the mechanics etc and it duplicates my Falcon 3D very closely . I even painted the canopy red and switched it to white wood blades

Even though I am a beginner , I'm an old schooler in that I think you can get dependant on too many gadgets . Kinda like keeping the training wheels on your bicycle , after awhile it looks silly and you will never progress or will do so at a much slower rate . Learn to fly well in a good Sim like G3 then learn how to fly good out in the real world . Much more rewarding than letting electronics do everything IMHO If you have a TX so that it can be switched on/off and you use it only in emergencys after a brief learning curve then yes , ok idea .

Yeah DarkSide41....these dang new-fangled electronics
ain't got no place in a helicopter.

Even modern jet fighters like the F-22 use a fly-by-wire
electronics system. It's just a dang shame. What ever
happened to the good old stick and rudder planes?

I'd go ahead and take my copilot out but, it just works
so good....well I guess I'll keep it and become totally
dependent on it. I'll probably never ever learn how to
properly fly a heli now... oh well, I seem to be having
fun...

I just know you don't use a gyro either, right?

I'm proud of you for being able to fly without any
electronic aides...Don't get me wrong...I wish I was
that good..but I'm not.

So, is it ok if I go ahead and keep my co-pilot???

Happy flying friend...but what works for you don't
work for me.

We're both flying heli tho so it's all good.

Bob

This FS8 copilot seams very interesting to me.Right now I am learning on a fixed pitch heli using a spectrum dx6 tx.Will this work on this heli with the dx6?When I feel that I am really getting the hang of things I will be getting a trex450,so I want to be able to remove from one and install on another heli.

LOL , read some accounts of the first guys to pilot the FBW F16's and 22's , they actually said it was kinda boring and like a video game . They preferred the old interaction between the pilot and aircraft feeling . Everything changes and what is an improvement for some will make it boring for others . Same sort of new technology debates even in the motorcycling roadracing world of today . All the electronic engine management systems coupled with slipper clutches , electronic steering dampers , traction control , Anti-lock linked braking systems , and yes , Fly by wire throttle systems on the newest bikes just about take all the skill out of riding one fast Very easy for a lot of guys to get in over thier heads with all the easy gizmos instilling a false sense of security right out of the box . When the #### hits the fan , as it will eventually , you still need to know how to ride a bike or people can get hurt .

And no I do not fly without a gyro but I can hover the heli and do simple FF around the backyard with it disconnected , can you ? Gyros have been with us for quite some time and considered the norm . Maybe the automatic leveling co-pilots type stuff will be the norm one day even on the professionals 3d machines but I hope not . Some people even get satisfaction from someone else flying the heli while they watch ....not for me

...and don't take things so personal , a lot of rude sarcasm in that post that a couple of smilies don't hide . I stated it was my opinion , never said anyone was stupid or anything if they chose to continue using one . The thread was about using the co-pilot or a sim and I think the best way to become a good heli pilot is the sim .

I would not use it on a fixed pitch heli but it would probaby work if the extra weight does not affect your model drastically . As stated above and I mean no disrespect in my statements but you probably already have the 2nd easiest type of heli to learn on only to the twin rotor toys so I don't see the point . If you want to really learn then spend the money on a realistic sim and practice . Even when you move up to better heli's the sim will continue to be invaluable as a training aid . Your next move up to the Trex 450 will be a whole 'nuther learning curve as the collective pitch 3D capeable machines perform very different .

No problem,Ya I know it one of the easiest to learn to fly,but just wondering.I bought the 3.5 sim awhile ago and it has helped alot.

DarkSide......

Well it just seems that if you have NO experience with the
copilot then you are in no position to make it sound like
using one is a big mistake.

But, you're right..you were only stating you opinion.

And yes, I fly my Blade Cp Pro with its not so good rate
gyro, around the park just fine. Not great, but sorta good.

Actually, now that I've flown with the copilot I am totally convinced
that it will NOT slow down the learning process or become a
crutch for life.

It does NOT fly the heli for you. You still learn forward flight
and figure 8's with it. It's strictly a safety net.

In fact, later on you'd want to remove it because it becomes
a little confining... You have to somewhat fight it for control of
the heli.

Finally..I didn't intend to sound rude in my original post. I guess
I'm getting old and senile and come across as being kind of blunt.
Sorry about that.

I like the forums and I enjoy the sharing of information with others.

Guess I have a 'Archie Bunker' type personality...

So, don't let all that stop you from trying a copilot....

Happy Hovering,
Bob

Actually who said I had No experience ? I do not use one but I do know those that do and they continue to use it as a crutch . Sure it is just another pc of tech to get someone flying but it is not at all like a gyro as some have stated . Some things are very beneficial like a cast for your broken leg (Gyro) but a crutch is just that , something simply to keep your ass from falling down

As you said , if left on it actually fights you for control so that in itself is slowing the learning curve if use is continued beyond a few weeks IMO . I'll continue to not use a flying aid , especially if I fly over 20 or so feet off the deck where a malfunction can put the heli in danger of landing on someone or thier property . As I have said before , putting the co-pilot on a switch to use as a failsafe is ok IMO but most tend to continue its "always on" use well past its intended design therefore they never fully learn total control of thier machine . Whenever I see a heli with a co-pilot flying over the treetops or doing forward flight it's like ,OK , you should already know how to fly without an aid if you're doing this ... If you've learned and have full control of the heli then even with some failures you can nurse it out of harms way . Something go wrong at altitude with another pc of electronics in the mix dulling your commands and who knows where she's coming down !


Just my opinion . A sim is the best as you are continually learning stick control ...
.
.
.

Well, I may have overstated it a bit when I said you
have to fight the copilot for control.

That is NOT the case at all. When you give a command
for forward, backward, left, right flight, the heli responds
just as if the copilot was not there.

It ONLY kicks in when you release the right stick for a
second.

It's a big help when and if you get disoriented as in nose
in flight and hovering.

I suspect that if I let you fly my heli you'd actually not
even notice the copilot was there.

I don't really believe you know someone who is so hooked
on the copilot that he can't give it up. I think that is just
something you read online and now you are repeating it
as if its fact.

If there is such a person, he is probably very old or very
young. Both those types need a copilot.

I can't figure why you even respond to a post from someone
inquiring about the copilot considering you've never used one.
It's gotta be motivated by the need to sound like an authority
on every subject.

But...you can't be an authority until you've tried one. And I've
tried one. That dosn't make me an authority but it makes me able
to respond from an actual users point of view.

But...you seem like a knowledgable guy and a good sport and I
DON'T want to fight with you. So, lets just agree to disagree and
move on.

Best wishes,
Bob

I hear the Army has a UAV heli from Ga Tech that can fly itself , of course you still have to tell it where to go , so that might be right up your alley . Perhaps you should enlist ??


So someone could fly 3D fine with it working ?


I've hovered a heli with one and I could tell . Seemed very slugish but hey , yours may better .

So now you're calling me a liar ? That's very polite of ya , not sure I'd want to even trust anything you have to say after that comment .

Nope , just about my age and that statement makes absolutely no sense . In fact I know a 16 year old that can fly circles around both of us and he learned all his wild 3D skills on a G3 before touching a real model .

Are you serious ? Did you even READ the title of this thread or was it your need to be the athority that drove you to post about your dependency on the co-pilot to make you feel better about continuing to use it ?? It sure sounds like someone is afraid to fly without one ...Geeesh

That I agree with as I certainly disagree with calling someone a liar when he was only giving an opinion and made sure that it was stated as such . You know nothing about me to make such assumptions .....

Well, I happen to think that your user name (DarkSide41), reflects
your personality.

When people choose a user name they tend to try and pick something
that describes themselves.

I'm not calling you a liar...I just think you embelish the story's you've
heard so often that you now think it's fact.

Yes, you can do 3-D with the copilot on board... I'm not sure about
the heavy stuff...tic tocs, etc.

IF you flew a heli with the copilot you didn't learn a thing. If you flew it
a little longer you'd know I'm right when I say the copilot does NOT handicap
the heli's ability to perform at all.

Beside's...I kind of like all those wires running every which way on my
heli....makes it look...technical, know what I mean?

I have a son your age...maybe I'll talk him into going to Ga Tech. He's
a really good heli pilot...NO copilot needed by him.

Gosh I enjoy these intellectual exchanges....

Bob

If you did a wee bit of actual research you would find my screen name is a combination of a [link=http://www.fantasiesonwheels.com/Web%20Pages/Darkside%20Racing.htm]Friends Race team[/link] that I am on , combined with my racing # (which was the age at which I bought my first sportbike and began riding racetracks) . You sure do make a lot of uninformed Assumptions and you know what they say about people that Assume things , it has a lot to do with the first 3 letters as I understand . I hope you do not carry that trait throughout the other areas of your life .


Huh ? I think embelishing a story with untruths is pretty much a liar .

You can have it from here , I no longer wish to be a part of hi-jacking the guys thread with such nonsense . If you care to further put your personality in print then have at it ....


But to answer the original question , a Sim is still the best way to learn control of a heli other than actually flying the real thing without a safety net . A safety net is a crutch IMO

Well I think diversity is a good thing, I've decided you can probably learn just as quickly either way. I can use the sim 'till I'm a 3D demon, but I still need to set up a real heli properly. I would guess that someone who's installed a copilot must know a lot about set-up and would be one leg up in this regard. However, being able to safely bring down a bird with an electronics failure is a good point.

And please lighten up. I've learned something from both you guys. I think that if we were talking face to face and could hear the inflections and nuance in our dialogue we could tell the difference between good natured ribbing and outright insults. The printed page has it's limits.

I agree....

Some people just take all this to seriously.

I'm having fun....At Darkside41's expense.

Both our views have merit... nobody wins,
nobody loses... its a draw.

It's just that I love my copilot....AND my
realfllight G3.5 so much.... It took both of
them to get me up and running.

Bob

PS: my son rides a Yamaha YZFR6Sw which
is also fly by wire. I've got an old 1979 Kawasaki
KZ1000 ST.

Chow....

The Yamaha YZFR6S is not FBW , the YZFR6V like I ride is though .

Yamaha makes 2 totally differet R6 machines at the same time since '06 . The "S" is the street bike and has been around basically unchanged from 2003 . The R6V is the race version starting in 2006 and no parts really interchange other than the wheels .
.
.
.

Hey, you guys have something else in common... sort of (gentle ribbingly expressed).

Hey out there!

Very new flier with NO flight time. I was given a walkera 35c by a friend who went overboard for his 10 year old, but I'm almost as bad as him... Where do I start? The crash as you learn plan is getting expensive. Where can I get a flight simulator? Is there one specific to the walkera series? Am I making a horrible mistake that will drive away loved ones?
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

Search Ebay and you can find used G3's for about 100 bucks . Stay away from the really cheap sims you will see though . Lots of good deals here and there in the classified section of the heli forums also .

Yeah Scot... I second that...get a copy of RealFlight G3.5 if you
can find a good deal on one. It's so much fun you might not ever
fly the Walkera but when you do, it should be a lot easier.

Darkside.... Well I think the throttle on the R6 is electronic. I read
it somewhere on the internet.

But... he don't need the race version... the one he has is WAY too
fast. In low gear he can go faster then me in 3rd gear.

But he can't go as many miles as I can non-stop...his wrists get
numb from the odd angle of the handle bars.

Happy Landings,
AB