I have a question for you experts out there.
I am flying a JR Venture (OS32) and I have my idle up 1 set to -4 pitch on the low end. I started working on loops and Rolls and have found that if I stop at the top of a loop and want to hold the heli inverted for a few seconds it just barely holds it there. But, I can do nice big loops without a problem. Is this the way it should be? Or do I need to add a little more negative pitch? Or should I be using my Idel up 2 ( -10 to +10 ) to do these these manuvers.
Thanks

You need more pitch to do that. Go to -6, but you might as well start getting use to your idle up 2 with + and - 10. That is the only mode I use other than normal. 1 less switch position for me to worry about.

Use 9 1/2 top 9 1/2 bottom 0 at center stick.

I second that. I would not recommend having an Idle up 1 with -6 and an Idle up 2 with +/- 10. Just set up the +/- 10 and fly with that. I have crashed practicing inverted hover in the aforementioned Idle up 1 setting because I didn't have the power/pitch to save it after a mistake, and didn't think fast enough to switch to Idle up 2. There's no good reason to run Idle up 1 as a beginner. Maybe when you are flying FAI competition, but ......

I have a related question.

Most people have somewhere around 60-70% throttle at 0 degrees pitch for their idle up modes. How do you keep the headspeed under control when you are not doing tuff maneuvers? I use 50% throttle at midstick right now and it works well for the aerobatics I do, but if I try to just fly to the other end of field staight and level the head starts screaming. Do you just go back to normal mode right after every maneuver???

BigWave,
Set the pitch on the bottom as close to what you have in your upright top point. For some reason the Venture will be a dog with 9.5 degrees on the bench. I would make these typical settins that are fine on most birds but then find that I would have to change my pitch curve setting substantially to get a respectable climbout.

So, if you have +11 on top then try to set the ID1 at -11. After you spend sometime inverted and do inverted climbouts you can determine if it is correct.

But yes, dont make your ID1 & ID2 different at this stage of your progress. If they are different and you don't flip the position to the one you want then you could do what HelicopterHead did.

It's just one more thing to worry about when you are learning new stuff. Also, try to develop a habit of flipping to idle up when you leave the ground or whatever you remember. It seems to be a "right of passage" for burgeoning heli pilots to watch their headspeed disappear one day when they flip her over. And the dreaded feeling of "oh no, wrong mode!"

I run less than 50% at 0 degrees pitch, FWIW. You definately DO NOT need to switch back to normal mode after each maneuver. It sounds like your rotor is unloading a bit once you get into FFF, which is normal and shouldn't pose a problem. If you are really overspeeding this way, then alter your curves to tone it down. Unless you are running a govenor, it is inevitable that your head speed will pick up a bit in FFF.

Lift
I found that out, I have checked and rechecked my bench settings at around +9 or so and then I go to the field and have to add a few more degree to get good climb-outs.

Thanks guys
That's what I'm going to do then is just eliminate my idle up 1 and make it the same as my idle up 2 ( -11, 0 , +11 ). I'll leave my normal where it's at ( -4, 5, 11 ), this is also what my throttle hold uses ( -4, 5, 11 ) but I still haven't had the BXXXX to do a full auto, it'll happen just a matter of time.

THANKS AGAIN, I'll keep checking back for more info.

what do you need -11 for, are you going to auto inverted and actually set it down?

Barbary,
Again, re-read my post a few back up on the topic where I explained why the Venture will probably read -11 on the bench after making in-flight adjustments.

I don't know why but on the Venture I just throw the pitch gauge out. With mine showing plus 9 on the bench it will barely climb out of a hover. And it appears to react the same with negative pitch, so, -11 to +11 on the bench. I seriously doubt that the pitch is actually at those degrees but that's where it works best.

Lift

Until you posted it, I thought I just couldn't read my gauga correctly, but on my Ergo it seems to hold pretty true. I don't know maybe it is correct and the heli just likes those extreme pitches.

Mine is also less than 50% throttle at mid stick. and I flip into my 3D mode and do alot of flying, just got to find that sweet setting

The reason that the "bench" pitch settings on the Venture do not work when in the air is due to the blade bearing seats (correction, that should be feathering spindle support cuffs/dampers inner diameter) being molded too big. (this defect was reported and glossed over, in the review of the Venture in a recent issue of the british MHW magazine.) Consequently, when loaded (as in the air) the blade grips will shift upwards. Consequently, this will pull the pitch down. This may all seem OK at first, until the resultant wear in the blade grip bearing seats (correction: spindle cuff/dampers) starts to cause "woof and poof" flutter while bring the collective pitch through 0 degrees as the blade grips start to "shift" at random.

When the swashplate starts to wear and show slop between the two stars, one can replace the stock unit with the very expensive metal JR unit or with the very good and the far less expensive (1/2 price) metal unit from the Century Raven series. This hint was given to me by a very "JR oriented" hobby shop owner in Canada. All one will need is another two long balls (for a total of 4) on the inner star instead of using the two short and two long ones supplied with it.

Hmmm....maybe I should just opt for the complete eCCPM Raven 30 heli, as it costs the same and already comes with this upgraded metal swashplate, a better tail rotor. thrust bearings in the main rotor blade grips and tail rotor blade grips, Blade grips with properly molded bearing seats, a heavy duty 6mm feathering spindle, a cool looking canopy .

//Set FlameSuit on

That is a crock. The Venture has the tightest control system I have seen out of the popular 30 size plastic helis. I have not seen a Raven yet so no comment.

But the blade grips on my Venture were so tight that it was one of the reasons I sold my Raptor and got the Venture. If I recall correctly the article talked about making pitch readings with the flybar perfectly perpendicular. I did not see anything about the blade grips. Feel free to refresh my memory if I am wrong but I did NOT encounter what was in that rather weak article.

Regarding the swashplate it is a very tight unit. Of the plastic ones I have seen it takes the cake. I had 3 gallons on mine when I sold it and it was still as tight as the day I pulled it out of the box.

Rotordoc,
There are good helis out there that are not in the Century lineup. You seem to make alot of cavalier statements about every heli out and then load up for the Century sales pitch. Chill out. Your enthusiasm towards Century is fine but you cannot make them out to be the ONLY good heli line. And they are not. Each manuf has their own flagship.

To even the score up I will let you know that I like the Falcon SE v2. As I matter of fact I like it so much that I ordered one yesterday! I am not bashing you but just providing some critism to your messages. To biased and opinionated.

Give JR some time to streamline the Venture series. They are soon to become the replacement for the entire Ergo line and JR will make them into quality refined ships.

//Set Flamesuit off

I have to say I have never read anywhere from any experienced heli pilot that ever said a pitch gauge was more than a rough tool. In-fact I've read a few stoies about people who don't even use them they just sight it all in then go to the field and see how it flies and change it on the spot.
I've only been flying helis for a total of 5gal of fuel now and have never had any help with setup or flight training other than a Sim and this forum. I can now put my Venture at 8' in a hover and take my hands off the control to swat a bug and the heli don't move (unless hit by wind ), but I guess what I'm saying is that this is one good heli. I now have heavy glass blades on the heli and have 4gal through it and it shows ZERO sign of ware.
Not to mention Horizon Hobby stands behind their products better than ANY one else in the industry. I can't tell you how many times my self or some one at the field dropped a radio or cooked a receiver all by their own doing and Horizon fixes it for FREE, they just sent me a new receiver because I thought mine was acting funny, I received it before I had even sent the other one off. As it turned out I just had a servo wire rubbing against an electric motor and there was nothing wrong with the receiver.

Lift,

Yes, I can get a little "Century" biased at times. That is probably because I was so surprised as to how good a machine they are, specially considering the prices.:-))

Just to quote from the article by Bob Creasy in the June 2002 issue of MHW. This is after he had set the "9 degrees" on the bench and then came back after readjusting at the field after flight testing.

"On returning home, I checked the pitch settings, as I was concerned that I had misread the pitch guage, having had to increase the pitch settings after I arrived at the field. I had quite a shock as the static guage indicated that the pitch range in the normal mode was now zero to 11 degrees, some 2 degrees more positive pitch then I expected.............Well after a bit of investigation, I found that both blades drooped a bit more then expected for a single, rigid feathering spindle head. I fitted the pitch guage again and found that by lifting the blade holder up, I could induce a 2 degree pitch change. I then removed the feathering spindle from the head and found the feathering spindle bearings were not a tight fit in the blade cuffs, allowing the blade holders to to move up and down which resulted in the pitch change"

I have had heli's in the past with softer then normal blade grips. Consequently, when pushed hard, the bearing seats inside them would stretch so that the bearings fit too loosely in their seats. (this would happen after about 150 flights (on a thirty that would be about 8 gallons of fuel).

Note: 8 gallons of fuel can take some flyers 4 years to burn on a thirty, others one year, and others, like myself, 2 months.

This would cause random flutter when cycling the pitches through zero pitch. So I am wondering If this "play in the Cuffs" will eventualy lead to the same problem.

This is why I have the concern for the Venture pitch anomoly.

I will just start to monitor the JR lists a couple of months from now, after the fleet has had some relevant "airframe time" logged and see if they start to report similar problems. Hopefully they won't. (The Ergo suffered some initial "flutter" issues also)

But I will wait before investing any cash on one. I have an aversion to paying a manufacturer to be one of their "beta" testers. So I generally wait for a model to be out a full season, then I will research it to see if any "issues" have developed before purchasing it. This policy has saved me a lot of grief in the past (been flying since the early 80's). It even kept me from the initial Hawk offerings from Century. My first was the HIII which I have been veryy satisfied with. This policy also saved me from all the issues some of my flying peers have had to deal with on their Raptors.

RotorDoc,

I appreciate you courteous response despite my less than positive post.

Regarding the article thanks for jogging my memory. But, I have to disagree. Maybe the unit tested has those signs but certainly not mine or two others that I have worked on. The bearings are all rather snug. Certainly much more so than the Raptor. There is not radial play in the grips about the spindle. Also, what impressed me was the swasplate. Very, very tight and sound.

Another thing that was impressive on the Venture is the mixing base. It is tight on the mainshaft and is lined with brass. This shows up in flight too because the cyclic response is VERY crisp. On high velocity turns the disk will easily "whip" around and the with the firm dampening the heli tracks very well.

Those that have had a Raptor and a Venture will immediately notice these differences. If indeed it does become another woof bird then I won't advise it as an excellent starter heli. Although, I may have to start taking a better look at the Falcon SE 30.

I like the Century helis due to the fact that they have incorporated the designs of others that have been proven and they are quick about making corrections to kits unlike some(TT). I have watched the Century lineup over the years and have decided to give one a try myself. Hence the Falcon 50 SE V2!

I do think that Century deserves a break from all the negative bias. It is beginning to appear that it is entirely undeserved and off the mark.

Not flown a lot but bearings / sp/ grips .. NO PLAY AT ALL . I did have uneven pitch (even after setting it couple of times ) and it would kinda change after every flight . Later some Guru at field checked it out and he found the bug. the two ailron arms connecting to SP were loose where the bearing goes. After tightening them it is Dead on . Flies so beautifully , I haven't repaired my Crashed Rappy ...(sorry dear some day I will . )

Well as my user name suggests I am a die-hard Ergo fan. And I can say from years of experience flying them, all the way from the lowly 30 to the 46, the 60, and the Z230. NONE, and I mean NONE of them have ever had any flutter, woof and poof, clutch problems, or anything that needed any expensive upgrades to fix. The only upgrade I ever did on my 30 was a 46 upgrade kit. The 60s(yes more than one) I have have been from bone stock, to a fully metal one that I bought that way, and to tell the truth the full metal one flew no different than my bone stock one. The only upgrade you need for a Ergo is a nice set of blades. Nothing against the woodies, but I just dont like the balancing part.

The best testimonial to date is my friend who has been flying his "Stock" Ergo 60 for three years now with all the origional parts, exceptfor the blades of course, and he is now playing around with a 90 in it, but all the origional parts are there, and he tears it up at the field.

Man I love the Ergo's

Ergo, I have owned 5 Ergo's to be exact, and I still have my ole trusty Ergo 46 sitting in the shadows with a newer OS 46 carb body waiting for another flight. I started building 2 60's and 2 Quick 30 Pro's and I think you talked me into taking her to the field tomorrow for a flight. (just plugged her up)

The Ergo has been a very solid heli and has given me years of good flying time. I have been wanting to try a Caliber soon, but as it is now to many hands in the fire I suppose. Flying time is a lot more enjoyable than building any day...granted..

Of the 5, I have had no severe issues but the older OS 46 carb problem but this is engine related and not the heli..