Hello,

I'm getting closer to actually starting the thing. A few Q's though.

1. What do y'all use for a fuel line clamp ? The fuel line kit I have came with a plastic strap thing with a hole in the middle that is wide on one end and narrow on the other. I guess you simply slide the line over to the narrow side to pinch off the line. I may be able to use the roll clamp from my fish tank drip system. What'ya think ?

2. What do y'all use for an inline air/fuel filter ? The fuel line kit I have only came with one filter located inside the "T" between the tank and the carb. I was thinking of putting one between the muff. & tank, and one in the fuel container uptake. What'ya think ?

3. I'm confused about setting the radio idle-ups. Throttle mix is all in percentages (%) but the pitch mix is all in degrees in the JR manual and all in percentages (%) on the radio. How do you convert ? In other words, what's 5 degrees in percentage ?

4. I can't find in any of my manuals or books (JR manual, Beginner's Guide, Ray's Authoritative) on how to start the engine. I take it you just set the radio for idle and attach the starter ? I might have to meet w/ HeliHead or Flmgrip 1st after reading about that other guy who almost lost his hand trying to start for the first time.

5. Why are there two holes in the fuel bottle cap ? I bought one of those screw on caps for my fuel so you can connect the bottle directly to the pump. I can't figure out why there are two holes other than using one as a vent. The illustration shows two fuel lines coming out of it. Where does the other one go ? My fuel pump can pump in either direction so only one line is needed for input output. Any thoughts ?

6. I'm using a 1800 onboard battery instead of the stock 1000 but it has three wires instead of two and is not keyed. They are orange, red, & brown. The charger and switch only have red & black and are keyed. I guessed that red goes to red and brown goes to black. Is this correct ? Seems to work fine.

7. I'm getting ready to measure the blade pitch with a gauge. Is it normal for the blades and flybar to have "play" in them even when everything is turned on ? I can manually move the flybar and blades, which changes the pitch, w/o effecting the servo arms.

Thanks for your help !

Man, you need to get some help. In California, you shouldn't have to drive too far to get it. Please don't try to fly without it.

Here are some answers:

1. What do y'all use for a fuel line clamp ? The fuel line kit I have came with a plastic strap thing with a hole in the middle that is wide on one end and narrow on the other. I guess you simply slide the line over to the narrow side to pinch off the line. I may be able to use the roll clamp from my fish tank drip system. What'ya think ?

I don't use one.

2. What do y'all use for an inline air/fuel filter ? The fuel line kit I have only came with one filter located inside the "T" between the tank and the carb. I was thinking of putting one between the muff. & tank, and one in the fuel container uptake. What'ya think ?

Yes, I use three also.

3. I'm confused about setting the radio idle-ups. Throttle mix is all in percentages (%) but the pitch mix is all in degrees in the JR manual and all in percentages (%) on the radio. How do you convert ? In other words, what's 5 degrees in percentage ?

That is what a pitch gauge is for. You should try to get the degrees listed in your manual by adjustin the percentages on the radio. Most people like a straight line on their pitch curve, zero degrees in the middle, same positive and negative at the ends. What the percentage will turn out to be depends on your setup, servo arm length, etc.

4. I can't find in any of my manuals or books (JR manual, Beginner's Guide, Ray's Authoritative) on how to start the engine. I take it you just set the radio for idle and attach the starter ? I might have to meet w/ HeliHead or Flmgrip 1st after reading about that other guy who almost lost his hand trying to start for the first time.

Make sure the carb is almost closed when the throttle stick is down. Try to start it, and add a little throttle if you need to. Probably good to have someone there to help.

5. Why are there two holes in the fuel bottle cap ? I bought one of those screw on caps for my fuel so you can connect the bottle directly to the pump. I can't figure out why there are two holes other than using one as a vent. The illustration shows two fuel lines coming out of it. Where does the other one go ? My fuel pump can pump in either direction so only one line is needed for input output. Any thoughts ?

Usually the end that goes into your heli is stored in the vent hole.

6. I'm using a 1800 onboard battery instead of the stock 1000 but it has three wires instead of two and is not keyed. They are orange, red, & brown. The charger and switch only have red & black and are keyed. I guessed that red goes to red and brown goes to black. Is this correct ? Seems to work fine.

Never heard of a three wire battery. Is it made for RC?

7. I'm getting ready to measure the blade pitch with a gauge. Is it normal for the blades and flybar to have "play" in them even when everything is turned on ? I can manually move the flybar and blades, which changes the pitch, w/o effecting the servo arms.

Yes, the flybar moves like a seesaw, and that moves the main blades. The flybar moves in the air when the servos change the pitch of the flybar by moving the swashplate.

Again, get help. It could save major damage and injury to have someone check everything for you.

Rick

this one can't be for real. joking, right?

I had the same questions a year ago. I set mine up with only a Futaba 8U manual and a Raptor manual. I had no pitch gauge and did not have info from the internet. The only thing I knew was how to plug the second line into the muffler tap for pressure. Help will save a lot of time and money. Good luck.

Well the only thing I can help you with is the two hole top! One goes to the pump and then from the pump to your gas tank. The other hole is for ventilation. The reason you see two fuel lines on it is for when your done fueling you take the tube that went from the pump to the gas tank and put it on the vent hole when your done. Then when its time for refuel you just take the one off the vent and put it back on the gas tank tube. Therefore you dont get any moisture in the fuel while flying that could get in there from the vent hole being open.

If you have no previous experience of glow engines please try to find someone to help you. But just to see the thing run these are the things you must do.

1. Fuel up
2. Reconnect the fuel line and prime the engine by applying the starter until fuel is seen entering the carb
3. Ensure all needles are set at manufactures recomendations for engine break in
4. Apply glow plug power
5. Ensure throttle is at low idle
6. HOLD THE ROTOR HEAD!!
7. Engage starter

After a few seconds the engine should then fire up to life.

hope this helps, Abram

Fissy, PM me and we can meet up, it will save you a lot of time and frustration and i can explain and show much more in less time then ever possible on the Internet....

Barbary, you were born with ALL the knowledge you'll ever need ? right

i seriously thought he was kidding, like it's never happened before? and i apologize if i offended anyone. lighten up.

Barbary,
There actually are people that are entering the RC hobby with helis as their first model. If you have never run a glow motor, setup a radio, built a model.... it can be VERY overwhelming.

I admire people like Fissy that have enough tenacity to attempt it from the start with NOTHING. But, we ALL must be sensitive to newcomers and their experience level. It is especially tuff here on the net where all we can perceive is the written word.

Once again you all came through with the answers I was looking for. Thanks soo much !

Rick,
I think at one point I actually thought that is how you might go about setting pitch degrees as a percentage. Makes sense, I'll give it a try.
Obviously that is what the second hole in the fuel cap is for. It's funny how the obvious sometimes eludes the simple mind.
The battery is the standard 1800 from Heliproz.
I think I understand how the servos, flybar, and blades interact, I was just wondering about the "play" in them while setting the pitch ?

Barbary,
No problem, I sometimes have similar thoughts on reader's questions when reading the Aqualink (fish) Forum. Perspective sometimes effects our reality a little too much. Yes, this is my first time with anything RC or glow. I have a bachelor's degree in computer science, worked as a mechanic in my younger years, and have always enjoyed taking things apart just like most, if not all, of you. Even my wife and her 152 IQ admits that this stuff is quite complex.
BTW, which question(s) made you think this was a joke ?

flmgrip,
I'll be contacting you in PM to setup a meeting at the field.

Does anyone else have an idea for the other questions:
Fuel line clamp ?
What do you use for an air/fuel filter ?
Battery connection ?

P.S. I would never think about trying to fly this thing w/o assistance from an experienced pilot. The only thing I was contemplating was starting the engine by myself but I suppose I can wait on that also.

Thanks again.

Sounds like you are using a JR battery. Red to Red and Brown to Black. The other wire on the batter plug is the "Signal" wire that is there just because it is included on standard JR plugs. The Signal wire from the batter pack is not connected to anything.

I don't run an air filter on my helis, but I do on my planks.

I use dubro fuel filters on the input and output of my fuel can, and between the tank and the carb on the heli. That's it.

No fuel line clamp is necessary UNLESS you are using a "T" fuel filter/connector that has a third nipple that can be used for fuleing. In that case the clamp is needed so that when you fill your tank you don't end up pumping fuel into your engine and flooding it. The easy solution is to just unplug the line running from the tank to the fuel filter between your tank and carb. Unplug the line from the side of the filter closest to the tank. This way, fuel will only flow to your tank when filling and you don't need the clamp.

Hope this helps.

fissy,
again i apologize, but there was just something very humorous about asking if you should upgrade your helicopter with parts from your fish tank. but hey, i'm the guy who almost lopped off his thumb by spooling up while holding the boom, so what do i know.

Fissy
I pretty much started out like you did and on my own, till I got the hang of the hover. Later I did get help, but not before many costly crashes.

My advice is this:

Get a simulator and practice till it is second nature. If they existed back in 1990 when I got my Concept 30DX I would have saved perhaps $1500 to $2000 and countless wasted hours on rebuilding. After I got my sim my crash rate was very low.

Get help from someone to make sure your setup is correct. This is not just for setup: it is for your safety and the safety of those around you. Develop your preflight routine so you don't miss something important.

Make sure the screws are snug and use Blue locktite on any in metal and degrease them first.

Good luck! Keep us posted on your progress!

HeliHead,
It is a JR (I had forgotten and now it's wrapped in padding), thanks for confirming that I guessed correctly.

faldoc,
Thanks for the reinforcement on the right way. I have spent many hours on the G2 sim and feel comfortable with hovering, rock solid, from all angles. Circuits aren't too pretty though, I still need work on those. I'm currently in the process of setting up a meeting with a veteran for my first flight. I've used Loctite on all my screws and will continue to check them all prior to each time out.

Question:
After setting the pitch (gauge makes it easy), I came out with a curve of ~ 12%, 20%, 30% corresponding to -2, +5, +11 for my normal setting. How do I adjust to get a larger percentage range ? In order to get that I had to set my pitch AFR to -40% (ail & elev. are both +50%). Shouldn't pitch AFR always be -50% for the Venture ? Should I even mess with the individual end points ? How else so I get the pitch curve to cover a larger percentage range ? As you might guess, the servo arms are not centered at mid-stick. BTW, if this is a stupid question that is better left to someone else to do a hands-on initial setup for me, let me know and I'll quit asking.
Thanks.

Your radio settings and mechanical set up are screwed up. Start with 100% travel volume in both directions and a pitch curve of 0%, 50%, 100%. Move the collective to exactly half stick and center the servo arm (use sub trim if necessary). Then adjust your pushrod lengths to (1) bring the swash to the center of its available travel, (2) make your mixing arms as close level as possible and (3) put the blades at 0 degrees pitch. Once this is achieved, go to full collevtive and measure your pitch. You should be getting about 10 degrees. If not either put your pushrods further out (to increase) or closer in (to decrease) on the collective servo horn. Once it's about right, fine tune with ATV (end point adjustment on your radio). Repeat for full low collective, where you should be getting -10 degrees.

Now that your mechanics are properly set up, adjust your pitch curve percentages to give you zero to -2 at full low collective, and plus 10 at full high collective and you are done. You will set up the idle ups and throttle hold later with the radio, and you shouldn't have to make any significant mechanical adjustments.

Hope this helps.

HeliHead,

When settings are restored to...

100% travel in both directions on all servos
Pitch curve 0, 50, 100
Half stick
Centered servo arms all at right angles
Swash at center of travel and level
Mixing arms level

...the pitch is +10.

At full stick, it is +16.

I don't think there is any way to lengthen or shorten the arms that much.

Yes there is. You just haven't tried hard enough. There's no way that your heli is so terribly designed that you can't achieve 0 pitch with the swash centered in its travel. I know it looks daunting, but start fiddling. There are many potential places to make adjustments, including the pitch pushrods, the blade pushrods, etc. Trust me, its not the heli, it's you. I had trouble visualising how to achieve this set up initially too, but now it's easy for me. Does your manual have suggested lengths?

HeliHead,
Sorry to bother you. I'll keep fiddling. Thanks for your help.

I didn't mean to sound bothered. Just trying to help. Believe me, having 10 degrees with the swash centered in its up-down travel is wrong. You'll get it.

This will take some thought. It is probably a combination of lengthening some rods (such as the push rods that connect to the blade grips) and shortening others (such as the rods that run from the swash to the mixers at the flybar).

Fissy,
You are building a JR Venture correct?

Make sure that your CCPM settings are mixed the same as the instructions. If you have +65 on pitch then that might explain why at mistick you have +10 degrees. Your supposed to have something like -65. It's been awhile but check that ok?

Good point to check your CCPM mixing, but that wouldn't explain 10 degrees at half stick assuming that the swash is physically centered in its up-down travel.

I helped Daz setup his Venture. Do not use the beginner setup. Go to the 3D setup for your push rod lengths (leave the beginner paddles on). That should get you close to zero degree pitch with swash plate at half travel.

Rick

I adjusted the swash arms and now I have 40, 60, 80% corresponding to -2, +5, +11. Does this sound correct ? If so, should I decrease the end points for ail., pitch., & elev. to fill out the range ? The center swash is now +1.5 degrees. I know you should it should be 0 but I the illustrations indicated a range of -10 to +13. AFR is now +50, +50, -50.

I'm not familiar with your radio (I use JR) and I'm not sure I understand your question, but here goes. In your CCPM mix menu, the mixing value for pitch determines how much collevtive throw you will have for a given stick input. Similarly, the aileron mix determines how much aileron cyclic you will get for a given stick input. You want to set the pitch value as low as possible while still achieving the necessary collective throw. For the cyclic mix values, set them so your swash has as much tilt as possible at full stick deflection, while not causing binding at full collective. To test for binding, simply go to full collective and full cyclic (elevator and aileron), then turn off your Rx to freeze the servos in position, and rotate the head by hand. If you feel any binding, figure out why and reduce the appropriate cyclic throw.

Hope this helps.