hi,
my flight times doesn't last as long as i would like it to.
i've already tried many battery brands.
after a month, the flight time is only 1-2 minutes.
i don't fly until exhausting the batteries. i'm very careful about that.
i also have a voltmeter and i always measure the battery charge before using it.
so, i don't think i'm using it improperly.
for example, i have a turnigy and a flightmax that are only 1 month old and they can only hold flights of 1.5 minute now.
i fly every day indoors, but the flights are very short.
i usually fly 2 minutes and let the heli sit and rest.
then one hour later a fly again another 2-minute flight.
after 2 or 3 2-minute flights, i recharge the battery.
is the life of those batteries really that short?
thanks.

I get from 5 minutes to 11 minutes on my electric helis.

As you can see, my answer is as vague as your question.

Without more detailed information it is impoosible to answer your quection properly.

What heli, what motor and pinion, & esc?

What size battery packs (cells, mah rating & C rating)?

What charger and at what settings?

I'm sorry for the lack of information.
The helis are simple coaxials.
It's a Cx3 and an Esky Comanche.
I've noticed the same problem with both, but with the Esky Comanche the problem seems to be more serious.
Comanche:
The motors are Xtreme 180 because the stock ones are worn out.
The stock battery didn't last 2 weeks.
The heli had many problems and the battery may have died because of it.
Then I bought a turnigy and a flightmax.
I've been using it for 3-4 weeks and they can't provide a flight longer that 2 minutes now.
The charger is the the Stock Esky one. It's also a balancer.
Some times I charge them with my stock Eflite charger, that is basically the same as the Esky one.
The only battery that lasts well is a flight power that i use with my cx3.
The rest all seem to be the same.
I find it so odd that those batteries are dying after so few and short flights.
Thanks.

What do you mean you can only get a 2 minute flight? You said you fly three two minute flights and then charge, that's a total of six minutes on a charge which is about right for a single charge.

Saying you measure the voltage before using it doesn't really tell us anything about whether or not you're using it properly.

You indicate the batteries lasted longer when new. How long did you fly them? What was your indication that it was time to stop flying and recharge a pack?

If you flew the packs until the heli started slowing and struggling to hover, you over-discharged the pack which is probably what killed it.

If you're packs are showing a significant lack of power after 2 minutes, then you just let them sit for an hour and fly it again without charging, your killing them even more (beating a dead horse?) Are they showing any signs of puffing or getting warm?

Now, I can only have one flight that lasts 2 minutes. When the batteries were newer, I could have 3 good flights of 2 minutes each. Now, after 2 minutes, the heli starts struggling to hover. Then, I land.

With those batteries I never had flights longer than 2.5 minutes precisely because I never wanted to damage the batteries. I have a timer and I set it to 2 minutes. When it goes off, I land. Since I started using those batteries (the Turnigy and the Flightmax), I never flew each of them more than 6 minutes total. And I never flew until the heli showed it couldn't hover anymore.

No, I don't do it anymore. I may have over-discharged some batteries in the past because that's what cx3 manual implies ("stop flying when you notice it is hard for the heli to hover" ) , but I didn't do it to those batteries I'm talking about.

Ok, maybe I should let them sit more, but why are they lasting so little?

No, they look very normal.

The thing is even worse!! I've just remembered I started using the Turnigy battery last Saturday and it's already dying.


Thanks.

Hmm, well in that case I wonder if it's something with the helis, like maybe gear mesh set too tight or something. I don't really know what to tell you, sounds weird to me.

You shouldn't have to let them sit except maybe a few minutes to cool off a bit after flying, then go ahead and charge them up again.

You should always recharge them after flying them before flying again, don't fly them for a few minutes, unplug and let sit, then fly again without charging. I'm not sure about these helis, but some helis have a voltage sensor that will be off if you plug in a battery that isn't fully charged.

Do you mean the gear is too tight to the pinion?
If so, would it be hard to rotate the shaft with the hands?
Yes, I notice it's a little harder to rotate the outer shaft with the hands, but it's because one of the Xtreme motors has an axis that is harder to spin.
It seems to be related to the way this particular motor was manufactured.
I think some motors may be just like that, but I don't know.
However, when this motor is powered on, it works ok (I think).
I replaced the stock motors because the heli couldn't go up with them and before replacing the stock motors, the battery that came with the heli died in 2 weeks.
Then, this battery issue is really old.
One thing I didn't mention is that - for several reasons - I have already replaced the 4in1 unit, motors and servos of this Comanche.
I mean, the heli I have now is not the same I bought 6 weeks ago.
Is is possible that I'm JUST unlucky with those batteries (too)?
Is it possible that all of them were in bad conditions since day one?
I know there is a lot of trash in the market.
What are the chances of buying a bad battery?
Are Turnegy and FlightMax good brands?
Thanks.

Yes, gear and pinion too tight. Helis often have a slots for screw holes that let you slide the motor to adjust the mesh, but I just looked at my esky lama (same as Comanche, just a different body) and it doesn't look like it's adjustable.

Ya, the extreme motors will be more difficult to turn because they use stronger magnets.

I don't think I've ever bought a bad battery. I had one that never performed very well but that might have been my fault.

You say the stock motors couldn't lift the heli. You mean they couldn't from the beginning or that they wore out after a while?

the original motors only flew well a few flights.
soon i wasn't able to lift over than 1 feet off the ground.
the heli also was unable to pirouette.
then i changed the motors and it solved THIS problem.
however, at this point I had already lost the stock battery and replaced the 4in1. it broke down because the heli crashed. I couldn't maneuver it properly because i had extremely weak motors and it caused the heli to hit the wall.
i also replaced the servos because the heli lost the radio signal, hit the ceiling and fried the second 4in1 unit.
i had to replace the 2nd 4in1 for a new one.
this heli has been a collection of problems since day one.
i replaced every bad part and now it flyes ok, but my batteries simply don't last what they should.
since i've already replaced every electronic component except the radio, i don't know what else i can do.
you never had any of those problems with your lama, right?
thanks.

That's weird, I've had my Lama over a year with many flights on the original motors and it flies and maneuvers fine. Never any problems. I actually have a set of extreme motors that I purchased with the Lama but never bothered to put them in because I was happy enough with it the way it was.

is your lama 2.4 ghz?
no batteries issues as well?
how often do you charge your batteries?
how many flights a week?
how long is each flight?
do u think flying everyday is a problem for the batteries?
do u think charging the batteries many times a day is bad?
thanks.

Hey again RTG,

I have heaps of coaxials - mostly Esky - below are pics of some of my models.....[sm=49_49.gif]
I have just finished reading the entire above and it occured to me that it might be the original Esky charger killing the lipos (slowly or quickly). You have changed motors (yes, Extreme 180 motors have Neo magnets which make them harder to rotate by hand), checked the gear meshes, and got new lipos - so what else could it be??
Unless [sm=72_72.gif] (and I'm getting desperate now) the wiring has a break in it or the plugs are worn - but you would see that in your pre-flight
Charging may be your trouble - so....
I will run through how I plug/unplug etc for you to follow:
1. Plug wall adapter into wall outlet & the other end into balance charging box.
2. Check Voltage of lipo and record before charging - I use one of these [link=http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RC-Lipo-Battery-LED-Voltage-Meter-Indicator-alarm_W0QQitemZ300408224461QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_T oys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles?hash=item45f 1b9bacd#ht_500wt_749]voltage Indicators[/link]
3. Switch wall adapter on at wall. (red light on balance charger glows)
4. Plug white JST-XH into correct socket. (green light starts flashing)
5. When fully charged flashing green turns to solid green LED
6. Unplug lipo, switch off at wall, and re-check (& record) voltage

Answers to your Qs:
I have a couple of 2.4G birds - no lipo troubles at all - I charge every lipo (after waiting for 15 minutes for it to cool after a flight) about 5 times per week{I have 7 lipos and am charging what I am not flying or waiting to cool} - so I get between 15 flights (up to 35 flights / week - my flights are between 5 and 9 minutes each (depending on the bird) - I think charging and flying every day is better for a lipo than once or twice a week - and finally no, I don't think that charging the batteries many times a day is bad! As long as you don't over discharge and a bad cell doesn't show up after a while - there isn't much you can do wrong[]

Remember that all rechargeable batteries have a limited number of charge/discharge cycles - for a Esky 900mAh 15C I think it is about 1200 times or something - so you are not in any way approaching the limits of the lipos........

Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]

a. You can`t have damaged all the batteries. It is unlikely all be damaged, especially when you have two different chargers.
b. Even if they were damaged then they would not be limited to the same flying time. One would perform better than the other.
c. In such a case then one or more batteries would have already started to expand.

There is something wrong with your helicopters right now.
Maybe at the beginning you had a motor/3in1 failure, and maybe you had damaged one or a couple of batteries.
But since you got it right, you got 3x 2min flying time, now it can have gone to 2min by just the batteries.
Something is wrong.

1. Check the gear to pinion mesh -as already said, the shafts to be easily turned by hand (except of the magnets effect) so to check there is no bearing failure.
2. Check the blades. Any cut or bent blade is useless. Blades are better to be changed in pairs than just a single one. Of the same brand as the other rotor`s blades (all four blades the same brand). Better use stock blades for testing.
3. Check the flybar link rod adjustment, so the upper rotor blades have a nice tracking with no vibration at all.
4. Check for bent shafts. Any wobble or vibration is killing the power.

If still you find no problem then test the batteries themselves.
Remove all the blades and the flybar, connect a fully charged battery and run the helicopter at middle throttle, or a bit less, for 5 mins.
If it runs at the same speed then the battery/ies is OK.

And a quick question. Does it have the same lifting power as it had when "batteries" were "good"?

the lifting power is fine but it lasts only 1 minute.
my blades are always cracked and patched, but i find odd that such a thing is the reason.
thanks.

Have you unwittingly added extra drag by patching the blades ? can you post a picture of what you`ve done ?

It`s really not a good idea to patch or repair rotor blades no matter what the size !

cheers
john

hi,
my blades are always patched because it`s too expensive to have new blades all the time.
i understqnd it may cause the motors to drag a little more energy but my problem seems to be more serious than that
[this keyboard is horrible...]
my turnigy battery only lasted one week, for example, and i cannot understand it...
i`ll be back home in one week and i`ll post a few pictures as you suggested
my cx3 #1 has horrible blades since week one, but it has been using the same battery for 3 months and it still is a very good battery
it is not as good as it was when i bought it, of course, but it still provides a very good flight time and a lot of power to the motors
depending on the price, i may buy an esky dauphin tomorrow
it seems they have improved the radio and the transmitter
have you heard about that?
thanks a lot

its not the batteries its the motors. if they start off fine, then 2 minuts in they slow the motors are too hot . i have replaced many of motors because of lack of cooling , when you replace the motors see if you could put some heat sinks of some kind on them, it will help the life of the motors.

hey pgroom,
i was taking a look at your instructions and i have some questions, please:
1) the first thing you do is to connect the wall adapter (that is already connected to the charger) to the wall?
2) then you connect the adapter to the charger?
3) only after that you connect the charger to the battery?
4) what do you mean with the instruction number 3? the same as instruction 1?
thanks